So has anyone tries the 3M product ever?
Summary of cleaner data
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Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
That is probably concerning. I would say the optimal approach is to run the car everyday until it at least comes up to normal operating temperature until the tank is down to at least 1/4 of a tank. Do you have any way to run that car more frequently for at least one tank of gas?
I'll make it a point to drive it more during that treated tank. Can it really be that bad for the tank and fuel lines over a longer period though?
If I recall correctly the mitsubishi cleaner someone posted a picture of somewhere on here had some special warning also...
That is probably concerning. I would say the optimal approach is to run the car everyday until it at least comes up to normal operating temperature until the tank is down to at least 1/4 of a tank. Do you have any way to run that car more frequently for at least one tank of gas?
I'll make it a point to drive it more during that treated tank. Can it really be that bad for the tank and fuel lines over a longer period though?
If I recall correctly the mitsubishi cleaner someone posted a picture of somewhere on here had some special warning also...
I will bump my own posting because I think it is good info and I am still personally dealing with a slightly high fuel trim on one bank so I am going to try the 3M stuff myself and report back on whether or not it helps. My fuel trim is running high due to either a clogged injector, a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak.
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I've used nothing but the new 2x concentrate, so I have no 1st person experience to compare it to the original formula this product data posted here is based on. I've used it several times, however, and each was pleased with the result. I also have a full bottle of Regane on my oil & additives shelves to try when the need arises and with which I can then compare it to by way of experience.
-Spyder
How could you tall it worked?
I've used nothing but the new 2x concentrate, so I have no 1st person experience to compare it to the original formula this product data posted here is based on. I've used it several times, however, and each was pleased with the result. I also have a full bottle of Regane on my oil & additives shelves to try when the need arises and with which I can then compare it to by way of experience.
-Spyder
How could you tall it worked?
FYI, I finally got my 3M cleaner yesterday. I had been debating on where to buy it due to the high cost. The folks at my local Carquest were able to special order a couple of bottle for less than $7. Now I just need to settle on a concentration to use. I am concerned about going all the way to 1oz per gallon. 3M suggests 1oz per 2 gallons but that would put the PEA per gallon at the same level as you would get with the Techron concentrate product. If the Redline SI-1 really has 37% PEA then, at 15oz, it has the most PEA per bottle. They suggest one bottle per gas tank but don't give any guidelines as to the maximum or minimum size of the tank. If one assumes that the average tank is 16.5 gallons, you would be getting about 1/3oz of PEA per gallon of gas. For about the same concentration, I would have to put a bottle of the 3M product (11oz) into about 13.5 gallons of gas.
Anyone have any thoughts on concentration?
Anyone have any thoughts on concentration?
Redline recommend 1 bottle for 20 gallon of gas. 3M have various bottle size for their injector and combustion chamber cleaner, so the best just follow the label. The interesting part, most often 3M recommend 2 additive at the same time in the tank, one is injector cleaner and one is combustion chamber cleaner. On top of that, the recommend induction system cleaner that comes in aerosol or liquid to be used with fuel rail system.
Originally Posted By: kr_bitog
Redline recommend 1 bottle for 20 gallon of gas. 3M have various bottle size for their injector and combustion chamber cleaner, so the best just follow the label. The interesting part, most often 3M recommend 2 additive at the same time in the tank, one is injector cleaner and one is combustion chamber cleaner. On top of that, the recommend induction system cleaner that comes in aerosol or liquid to be used with fuel rail system.
I got an email from the folks at Redline and you are correct. They suggest the full bottle for 20-25 gallons of gas. That corresponds to approximately .2-.28 oz of PEA per gallon of gas. This seems inline with what a lot of other manufacturers suggest. It seems like no one suggests higher than 0.28oz of PEA per gallon. So, to some extent, all you need to do is adjust the amount of cleaner you use. That assumes you have a good idea of the PEA percentage. From the MSDSs I found last year, the 3M product was estimated at the highest percentage at about 40%. That means there would be about 4.4 oz of PEA in the bottle. At 0.28oz/gall, a strong treatment would be to use one bottle for 15.7 gallons. That is less than my 18.5 gallong tank. So I would either have to add it to a less than full tank, which I would have to estimate its capacity based on typical MPG for my car or I would have to add more than one bottle to my tank (13oz of the 3M product).
Redline recommend 1 bottle for 20 gallon of gas. 3M have various bottle size for their injector and combustion chamber cleaner, so the best just follow the label. The interesting part, most often 3M recommend 2 additive at the same time in the tank, one is injector cleaner and one is combustion chamber cleaner. On top of that, the recommend induction system cleaner that comes in aerosol or liquid to be used with fuel rail system.
I got an email from the folks at Redline and you are correct. They suggest the full bottle for 20-25 gallons of gas. That corresponds to approximately .2-.28 oz of PEA per gallon of gas. This seems inline with what a lot of other manufacturers suggest. It seems like no one suggests higher than 0.28oz of PEA per gallon. So, to some extent, all you need to do is adjust the amount of cleaner you use. That assumes you have a good idea of the PEA percentage. From the MSDSs I found last year, the 3M product was estimated at the highest percentage at about 40%. That means there would be about 4.4 oz of PEA in the bottle. At 0.28oz/gall, a strong treatment would be to use one bottle for 15.7 gallons. That is less than my 18.5 gallong tank. So I would either have to add it to a less than full tank, which I would have to estimate its capacity based on typical MPG for my car or I would have to add more than one bottle to my tank (13oz of the 3M product).
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
I got my tank down to about 16.2 gallons and added the full bottle of the 3M stuff to it. That was a little less concentrated than I wanted but I was about to go on a long drive and didn't want the concentration to be too high by adding it after that drive.
I wil monitor my fuel trim numbers and see if it helps. I think there is actually a better chance that I have a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak than dirty injectors.
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
I got my tank down to about 16.2 gallons and added the full bottle of the 3M stuff to it. That was a little less concentrated than I wanted but I was about to go on a long drive and didn't want the concentration to be too high by adding it after that drive.
I wil monitor my fuel trim numbers and see if it helps. I think there is actually a better chance that I have a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak than dirty injectors.
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
My fuel trim is running high due to either a clogged injector, a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak.
Got a CEL? When I had my vac leak (extremely cracked and dry rotted manifold hoses...lol) I had a couple codes that pointed to EGR valve.....luckily I just didn't go swapping parts, or I never would have fixed the problem
I can handle swapping out parts, but yea, the hoses into the manifold were all cracked and such from the car sitting for 2+ years....
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
Really? What does the 3M use as it's cleaning agent? I can't see it being any worse than say, Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL
Which is IPA, Acetone, Xylene, and some other stuff...lol, very stout!
My fuel trim is running high due to either a clogged injector, a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak.
Got a CEL? When I had my vac leak (extremely cracked and dry rotted manifold hoses...lol) I had a couple codes that pointed to EGR valve.....luckily I just didn't go swapping parts, or I never would have fixed the problem
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
Really? What does the 3M use as it's cleaning agent? I can't see it being any worse than say, Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL
Originally Posted By: ahoier
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
My fuel trim is running high due to either a clogged injector, a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak.
Got a CEL? When I had my vac leak (extremely cracked and dry rotted manifold hoses...lol) I had a couple codes that pointed to EGR valve.....luckily I just didn't go swapping parts, or I never would have fixed the problem
I can handle swapping out parts, but yea, the hoses into the manifold were all cracked and such from the car sitting for 2+ years....
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
Really? What does the 3M use as it's cleaning agent? I can't see it being any worse than say, Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL
Which is IPA, Acetone, Xylene, and some other stuff...lol, very stout!
No, I don't have a CEL, yet. I had a bad O2 sensor and when I replaced that I noticed that the fuel trim was high on bank 2. The engine is a Subaru H6. The most likely choices are clogged injector, vac leak or exhaust leak. I am leaning toward vac leak for the reasons you gave. Very common.
The 3M product has a high concentration of PEA as well as a few other solvents. Some solvents attack plastics faster than others.
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
My fuel trim is running high due to either a clogged injector, a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak.
Got a CEL? When I had my vac leak (extremely cracked and dry rotted manifold hoses...lol) I had a couple codes that pointed to EGR valve.....luckily I just didn't go swapping parts, or I never would have fixed the problem
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
Really? What does the 3M use as it's cleaning agent? I can't see it being any worse than say, Berryman's B-12 CHEMTOOL
No, I don't have a CEL, yet. I had a bad O2 sensor and when I replaced that I noticed that the fuel trim was high on bank 2. The engine is a Subaru H6. The most likely choices are clogged injector, vac leak or exhaust leak. I am leaning toward vac leak for the reasons you gave. Very common.
The 3M product has a high concentration of PEA as well as a few other solvents. Some solvents attack plastics faster than others.
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3M sells two different types of bottles. One is Fuel System Cleaner and the other is Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner. Surprisingly, the Max Strength bottle is smaller but costs double.
I hope you are talking about the Max Strength one as that has PEA listed at 30-60%. But if you got your bottle at $7, I am afraid you have the normal strength Fuel System Cleaner.
- Vikas
I hope you are talking about the Max Strength one as that has PEA listed at 30-60%. But if you got your bottle at $7, I am afraid you have the normal strength Fuel System Cleaner.
- Vikas
Originally Posted By: Vikas
3M sells two different types of bottles. One is Fuel System Cleaner and the other is Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner. Surprisingly, the Max Strength bottle is smaller but costs double.
I hope you are talking about the Max Strength one as that has PEA listed at 30-60%. But if you got your bottle at $7, I am afraid you have the normal strength Fuel System Cleaner.
- Vikas
Nope. It is the Max Strength cleaner and I got it for about $6.50 at Carquest. I think it is on sale.
3M sells two different types of bottles. One is Fuel System Cleaner and the other is Max Strength Fuel System Cleaner. Surprisingly, the Max Strength bottle is smaller but costs double.
I hope you are talking about the Max Strength one as that has PEA listed at 30-60%. But if you got your bottle at $7, I am afraid you have the normal strength Fuel System Cleaner.
- Vikas
Nope. It is the Max Strength cleaner and I got it for about $6.50 at Carquest. I think it is on sale.
YOU SHOULD NEVER USE HARSH SOLVENTS IN YOUR MODERN CAR'S FUEL SYSTEM. A Product like Techron Complete, or 3M Max with high levels of detergent based cleaner PEA is the safest and best way to go, not only is PEA a more effective cleaner than the solvents but it is TOTALLY safe for the systems plastic and rubber components .
Originally Posted By: Huskymaniac
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
I got my tank down to about 16.2 gallons and added the full bottle of the 3M stuff to it. That was a little less concentrated than I wanted but I was about to go on a long drive and didn't want the concentration to be too high by adding it after that drive.
I wil monitor my fuel trim numbers and see if it helps. I think there is actually a better chance that I have a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak than dirty injectors.
Yes, I went through the tank with the Red Line SI-1 in about 1 week.
Originally Posted By: ltslimjim
I put a full bottle in with my 10 gallon tank on the VX.
Hopefully you emptied out that tank fast. The danger is with the stuff attacking parts in the fuel system over time.
I got my tank down to about 16.2 gallons and added the full bottle of the 3M stuff to it. That was a little less concentrated than I wanted but I was about to go on a long drive and didn't want the concentration to be too high by adding it after that drive.
I wil monitor my fuel trim numbers and see if it helps. I think there is actually a better chance that I have a vacuum leak or an exhaust leak than dirty injectors.
Yes, I went through the tank with the Red Line SI-1 in about 1 week.
That is a good deal. You can get it straight from 3M for $15.91. http://www.shop3m.com/60455031918.html. Last I checked a can of BG44K is now $25!!! Wow . .
I still use RL Si-1. But it's now risen to $10/bottle. So your deal on 3M Max beats it. I'll have to check it out. Thanks
I still use RL Si-1. But it's now risen to $10/bottle. So your deal on 3M Max beats it. I'll have to check it out. Thanks
Vikas:
Request that they order it for you from their warehouse. Usually they will if you have to just put a deposit on it.
Request that they order it for you from their warehouse. Usually they will if you have to just put a deposit on it.
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