Suggestion for safety in Spain and Greece

[PandaBear]

For personal reasons my wife and I would be heading to Spain and Greece for 2 weeks, while she think of it as vacation and romantic, I think of it as entering battleground because of thieves and robbery.

Yeah, coming the US and especially near Oakland, and have my car broken into near East Palo Alto and dad's apartment complex front gate being broken into by homeless or thieves, I should feel safer in Europe than a European should feel in the US.

What I read in some back packers' blog is that the illegal immigrants in Madrid, Barcelona, and Athens tends to be very good at pick pockets and "choke till you faint" type of robbery. They also tend to target Japanese and anyone that look Japanese (end up targeting anyone Asian looking) in Metro, bus station, etc.

I've come up with some plans to reduce the risk but most importantly, since my wife has some spine / neck injury, if she is choked she could be severely injured / killed and I'd want to make sure that this doesn't happen. So my plan is:

1) do not let anyone approach me with map, jacket, ketchup, police badge, donation / signature request, etc. many thieves tend to distract you when trying to pick pocket.

2) since I cannot carry gun, we'll carry pepper spray around our neck, to tell them we'll not be easy target

3) pad lock all the back pack, luggage, camera, wallet and chain them together, makes it hard for them to untangle the mess and snatch them.

4) hidden waste band under your shirt to hold passport and ATM card, carry only small amount of cash and use ATM to get cash as needed (no more than 100 Euro at a time)

5) wear backpack in front of you in public transit and hold them tight.

6) when people try to crowd toward you, get away and if they follow, bring out the pepper spray and point at them. if they approach, spray them



Any other suggestions? We're not planning to rent a car and would go mainly on public transit (metro, bus, and sometimes taxi).



I'm paranoid, because if I lost the passport early on, I might have to miss the remaining part of the journey and head home early, or I have to be stuck for a few days before I can get back home. If my wife is choked her injury may be severe due to her current condition (work injury in Apr that is not yet recovered).

 

[TugaSaudade]

Pepper spray is illegal (authorised for law enforcement only) in my country (Portugal) and could also be illegal in Spain and Greece, so not a good idea to flash it around or using it around your neck..

And do try to make good use of your vacation time by sharing an enjoyable time with your wife, don't get too hooked up on extreme security measures, do not let that ruin your quality time together.. you want to make her relax, helping her recovery.

Be alert, but without making her feel like there is evil lurking around every corner.. bad people are everywhere, just as good people are

Hope you enjoy a wonderful time together

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
For personal reasons my wife and I would be heading to Spain and Greece for 2 weeks, while she think of it as vacation and romantic, I think of it as entering battleground because of thieves and robbery.


If you are already so scared and paranoid, then how is this going to be a relaxing trip?

Honestly, if you have to ask these questions, you may be going to the wrong place.

 

[John_Corey]

Hi Panda Bear,

Pickpockets are only one problem when traveling in southern Europe. Another are thieves on scooters that will rip your purse or camera out of your hand, possibly dragging you behind their bike. Brazen highway robberies that often leave tourists dead, and abductions, are not as much publicised. Are you prepared to pay ransom, and will anybody pay ransom for you and your wife? Robbers may also escort you to the next ATM while you make a withdrawal.

Using pepper spray is a bad idea and will get you likely stabbed or severely beaten. Besides, in most European countries, pepper spray is only available as a dog deterrent and using it on a human will be considered a serious offense.

Hiding your money in your crotch area or socks is not a good idea, because every robber will look there first.

I would rent a car and avoid public transportation as much as possible, especially in the tourist areas.

Spain was lovely and I had a great time back in '95!

Cheers,
-J

 

[XS650]

You need to get past that or you won't be able to enjoy yourself.

If you do go, act like you would in an American City and stay out of dodgy looking areas, particularly at night.

The most common problem is pick-pockets. Don't carry your wallet in your back pants pocket. A money belt or other way to keep your money out of your pockets is a good idea, although after 30+ countries in the past 8 years, I don't bother with money belts and such most of the time anymore. If I need to carry all my money and papers with me while I'm out with the local population, sometimes I will use one of those fabric pouches that hang around your neck. I also use a money clip and carry one credit card and the days money in a front pants pocket.

Keep you passport locked in your hotel safe, unless you are traveling and need it for border crossings. There is a bigger chance of losing it than having it stolen. Carry a copy of the front 2 pages of your passport and your wife's passport with you. She should also carry copies of both passport front pages, again this as much in case of loss as theft. If you have a copy of your passport front pages it will speed up getting a replacement.

You and you wife should carry different credit cards, that way if you lose one you can cancel it and still have a credit card to use.

Barcelona does have a reputation as pick pocket capital of Europe.

Relax, and enjoy your trip.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: The Critic
If you are already so scared and paranoid, then how is this going to be a relaxing trip?

Honestly, if you have to ask these questions, you may be going to the wrong place.

Agree, I have enough stress in my life that in some way I wanted some action so I have the excuse to kick some booty. Of course I'm not going to do it and I won't be doing it at all out of rationality, but relax is not a term I'd use when I am already stressed out meeting all the things I need to do in life right now, paying for the trip, planning for the stuff, etc.

Having a US travel warning for Asian American and Older tourists in particular is not something I like to see. People from Hong Kong (where I was from) and Taiwan (where my wife was from) have horror story on blogs that almost every 2 out of 3 posters have been pick pocketed or mugged (chock to faint). Of course, that's statistically lower than in downtown Oakland, East Palo Alto, Richmond, Detroit, etc. Then again, I won't be in a car most of the time.

So if no pepper spray, what about other stuff? I knew a few that travel with spring loaded knife. Also how do you make yourself not choke-able?

Sorry, for those who remember my non pro gun stance, I'm jumping to the dark side. I've had enough dealing with travel schedule and I'm not going to be stuck in Europe because some low life snatch my passport or got my wife into a hospital due to neck injury.

 

[Tempest]

You had to pick those countries? In case you haven't noticed, they are in the middle of a financial melt down. That won't exactly make the criminal population smaller.

 

[Silk]

My cousin goes to Greece every year,she loves it and has no problems...she want to live there.Maybe coming from New Zealand she thinks Greece it pretty tame....

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: John_Corey
Brazen highway robberies that often leave tourists dead, and abductions, are not as much publicised. Are you prepared to pay ransom, and will anybody pay ransom for you and your wife? Robbers may also escort you to the next ATM while you make a withdrawal.

Using pepper spray is a bad idea and will get you likely stabbed or severely beaten.


Are you mentioning this out of facts (recent news report) or are you just hypothesizing?

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: Tempest
You had to pick those countries? In case you haven't noticed, they are in the middle of a financial melt down. That won't exactly make the criminal population smaller.


It is mainly a trip to de-stress my wife from the pain she is having, and she picked BOTH these 2 countries and I'm bending my bass ackward to try to make her happy.

Getting her to forgot workers' comp and Aetna both denied her work injury claims and she will be forced to be a housewife for a while due to the injury (unpaid) would be the priority.

Another part of the reason is (hopefully) that it will be cheap there right now.

 

[John_Corey]

Originally Posted By: PandaBear
Originally Posted By: John_Corey
Brazen highway robberies that often leave tourists dead, and abductions, are not as much publicised. Are you prepared to pay ransom, and will anybody pay ransom for you and your wife? Robbers may also escort you to the next ATM while you make a withdrawal.

Using pepper spray is a bad idea and will get you likely stabbed or severely beaten.


Are you mentioning this out of facts (recent news report) or are you just hypothesizing?


Hi Panda Bear,

I just keep up with the news. Express kidnappings have been on the rise in Spain, and especially in Madrid, for several years. The situation is similar in Italy. I really can't say much about Greece.

Cheers,
-J

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: John_Corey


I just keep up with the news. Express kidnappings have been on the rise in Spain, and especially in Madrid, for several years. The situation is similar in Italy. I really can't say much about Greece.

Cheers,
-J


After reading about express kidnapping, I don't think I'll fit the profile and they probably can't milk blood from a stone anyways.

What I do have, is a new ATM with only $2500 US in it and new credit card that has only a small amount of credit (i.e. $3000 US) in it, that I can afford to lose or give up ATM on even if at gun point.

Definitely will plan to only take out a couple hundred euro from ATM at a time only, keep copy of passport around, and do not carry anything I cannot afford to lose.

 

[John_Corey]

Hi Panda Bear,

How does SWMBO deal with your anxiety?

Cheers,
-J

 

[Chris Meutsch]

Dress non-American, if that makes sense. No "Wisconsin" matching sweatshirts. Khaki's and plain shirts.

 

[eljefino]

Even if you dress non american shoes and eyeglasses give it away.

The best camoflauge is confidence. I'd make a phoney wallet for your back pocket with expired gift cards and 20 euro in it, if you try and get mugged toss it toward the theif, but miss and make him grab it out of the gutter, then run away screaming like a ten year old girl. Similarly an obsolete digital camera hanging from your neck will distract away from your good one.

I'd use a credit card as much as possible, the exchange rate penalty is only 1-2%, less than the ATM fees you'll incur making many small transactions.

 

[pbm]

Take a cruise instead...

 

[rjundi]

I think what you have read happens to less a few percent of tourists. However like everything it is out there easy to find negative and read because the other 99% have no issues like myself and don't care to report it. I have traveled every year except last to a foreign country(I don't count Aruba really) and nothing has happened.

I did not take a tour and have both rented cars and used public transit in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd world since college(1990).

By the way wearing a back front on the front makes you look seriously stick out and look like tourist.

Use common sense and don't have money sticking out. With regard to your passport you can wear a money belt with it and your money inside.

Backpacking makes you look like a target.

My only tip is make sure you have a credit card that does not charge exchange fees. I cannot recall which one does not charge however I used a Chase CC it does.

Enjoy your trip hopefully.

Fears are good but really just being aware is more important.

 

[CivicFan]

OMG! Spain and Greece are EU members. These two countries have strong tourism industries and safety of the tourists is a very high priority to them. Exercise common sense (keeping money and documents safe) as RJUNDI suggested and you will be OK.

But if you are so scared, you probably should stay in the US.

 

[gathermewool]

Temporary tattoos and Wushu T-shirts. Nothing says "don't choke me" like a neck tat of a demon maw.

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: CivicFan
OMG! Spain and Greece are EU members. These two countries have strong tourism industries and safety of the tourists is a very high priority to them. Exercise common sense (keeping money and documents safe) as RJUNDI suggested and you will be OK.

+1
Being a tourist you are a bit of a target but like others said, don't carry stuff people want to steal and you should be OK.
My wife and I back packed around Poland, Czech, and Germany for 5 weeks a few years ago only taking the train or bus. In some stations there definitely were guys observing us as a potential target but we had no expensive outer items and I made a point of looking at them and keeping track of where they were around us, and we had no problems as we weren't an easy target.
A Canadian flag somewhere on you or your gear never hurts either, just say you're from Toronto...