Substitutes for Toyota Type IV ATF
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AMSOIL recommends their ATF for that application.
Mobil 1 synthetic ATF is a designated Dexron III fluid, and as such, it's one of the best Dexron IIIs available, but it is not an approved fluid in applications calling for Toyota Type IV ATF. Since you own or lease the car, you are free to use any brand or type ATF you choose. If your powertrain is still under warranty, Toyota is equally free to deny a warranty claim that involves accelerated wear of friction material if inspection reveals evidence of use of a non-approved ATF. (The company would rightfully demand evidence that the appropriate ATF was used for routine field service.) Good luck in your decision.
If vehicle requires an HFM fluid, either use OEM or a fluid converter.
http://www.lifeautomotive.com/Products/ATFP6001.asp
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_platinum.html
http://www.wynns.ca/pages/english/e_products_x-trans.html
http://www.run-rite.com/industry/products03.htm
http://www.lifeautomotive.com/Products/ATFP6001.asp
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_platinum.html
http://www.wynns.ca/pages/english/e_products_x-trans.html
http://www.run-rite.com/industry/products03.htm
I have 3 Pontiac Vibes which are built by Toyota(same as the Matrix). It states in the owners manual that the ATF is good for 60k under severe conditions and forever under normal conditions. Well after 40k the ATF was burned completely black!
I have now switched to Amsoil ATF and the Vibes seem to love it. I have also added auxillary coolers and bypass filters to try and extend fluid life. I have a write up here http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000125
I live in Canada and GM wants like $12/liter for the T-IV whereas the Amsoil is under $10 with my preferred customer membership.
I have now switched to Amsoil ATF and the Vibes seem to love it. I have also added auxillary coolers and bypass filters to try and extend fluid life. I have a write up here http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=36;t=000125
I live in Canada and GM wants like $12/liter for the T-IV whereas the Amsoil is under $10 with my preferred customer membership.
I'm curious - did your ATF actually smell burned? Some recent trannies will discolor the oil without harm because of the frictional materials used. Hyundai, among others, had a TSB out during the previous 12 months about this very issue. Their recommendation is not to change the fluid out regardless of appearance unless there's a burned odor.
It did smell burned and it looked absolutely horrible, like 10,000 mile dino motor oil! The car was starting to shift strangely as well. Since the flush and fill with Amsoil, all is well again. It's too soon to tell if the tranny will turn the fluid black again though. If it does I'll probably send in a sample to see what's really going on. I've looked around a few Vibe/Matrix forums and the general consensus is that these tranny's run extremely hot and require frequent fluid changes.
I had a lengthy talk with my trans specialist. He said the problem with cars today is they use too high of a stall converter, allowing too much slippage and creating tons of heat. It's not uncommon for the converter to be running at 400+ degrees!
So when the fuid comes through to lube and cool, it is instantly burned and no amount of auxillary cooling will stop it.
I had a lengthy talk with my trans specialist. He said the problem with cars today is they use too high of a stall converter, allowing too much slippage and creating tons of heat. It's not uncommon for the converter to be running at 400+ degrees!
Toyota doesn't reccomend Dexron III for your car and Mobil 1 doesn't recommend its ATF for cars that require T-IV, so personally I wouldn't do it. It may work just fine but it's a gamble because nobody knows for sure at this point.
Just to confuse the issue some more, my Vibe uses Dexron fluid in the power steering!
Just to confuse the issue some more, my Vibe uses Dexron fluid in the power steering!
The owner's manual for my Toyota Ipsum also states DEXRON II or III for the power steering..... does this mean that we do not need to get specifically power steering fluid for power steering?quote:
Originally posted by olympic:
Toyota doesn't reccomend Dexron III for your car and Mobil 1 doesn't recommend its ATF for cars that require T-IV, so personally I wouldn't do it. It may work just fine but it's a gamble because nobody knows for sure at this point.
Just to confuse the issue some more, my Vibe uses Dexron fluid in the power steering!
I have a 99 Corolla with the 4spd automatic that specs Dex III.I would think that little has changed in the tranny in my Corolla and a 2004 model version however I could be wrong.
But I think M1 ATF could do the job sufficiently.You could always add the additives to supposedly turn into a type IV ATF.
But I think M1 ATF could do the job sufficiently.You could always add the additives to supposedly turn into a type IV ATF.
Amsoil has fully tested their ATF in Toyota transmissions and fully warrantees it for the Type T and Type T-IV applications.
I'd have no reservations about using it in any new Toyota I had that was still under warranty.
Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
I'd have no reservations about using it in any new Toyota I had that was still under warranty.
Tooslick
www.lubedealer.com/Dixie_Synthetics
If the manual states to use Dexron ATF, then that's what you use. From what I understand, oil sold as "PS fluid" is just a low grade ATF, so Dexron ATF is a better quality fluid. You could also subsitute any of the synthetics out there like M1 or Amsoil.
[ June 28, 2004, 08:46 AM: Message edited by: olympic ]
The automatic transmission fluid rating you need IS Toyota Type T-IV. The ATF you use must not be Dexron, nor Mercon, nor MerconV, or any other. If you wish, you can use Dexron ATF plus the HFM supplement mentioned above, but it is not licensed by Toyota. You also could use Amsoil ATF, but it again is not licensed by Toyota. Either of these last two options will probably work OK, but you're relying on the supplement makers word or Amsoil's word, not on Toyota's.
Ken
Ken,
Thanks... I think I am now 'convinced' that I should not meddle with other ATF.... until there is confirmation/endorsements from Toyota that the other ATF can be used. Think it would be terrible experience should the tranny fail on us... just becos I used other ATF, due to 'itchy backside'....
Cheers
Hey there! From Singapore too... just stick to type IV fluid. It's stated in the manual to ONLY use that.. so.. just stick to it...
Roger....quote:
Originally posted by Bryan_1NZ-FE_Mobil 1:
Hey there! From Singapore too... just stick to type IV fluid. It's stated in the manual to ONLY use that.. so.. just stick to it...
I have today understand from a friend who drives a Corolla G9, and he is very pleased with the Mobil Synthetic ATF in place of the Toyota Type IV ATF...... However, I am still not convinced of the Mobil Synthetic on my Ipsum yet... just yet....
Mobil 1 ATF will not, by itself, work as a Highly Friction Modified ATF (The type of ATF that Toyota, Chrysler, and others use).
That said, you can modify Mobil 1 Dexron ATF to work as one of these modified ATFs used by other car manufacturers. The most widely and professionally accepted ATF additive for this purpose is LUBEGARD.
If you want to read up on their products, they have two that they claim would work to modify Mobil 1 Dexron ATF.
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_hfm.html
or
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_platinum.html
I like the Platinum additive the best. Some people on this board doubt the claims that Lubegard makes, whether it truely can modify an ATF like Mobil 1 to work as well as the lesser quality Stock Dino ATF that Toyota uses. I would suggest calling a few Transmission shops in your area and asking about Lubegard. Whether it is any good. You will find that almost all professional transmission servicers recommend and use Lubegard products.
Also, Aamco, on of the largest transmission servicers, is now selling Lubegard (platinum, I believe) at Autozone packaged under its own name. Why not use Lubegard in conjuction with the synthetic Mobil 1 ATF and get a superior product in the end?
That said, you can modify Mobil 1 Dexron ATF to work as one of these modified ATFs used by other car manufacturers. The most widely and professionally accepted ATF additive for this purpose is LUBEGARD.
If you want to read up on their products, they have two that they claim would work to modify Mobil 1 Dexron ATF.
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_hfm.html
or
http://www.lubegard.com/automotive/trans_atf_platinum.html
I like the Platinum additive the best. Some people on this board doubt the claims that Lubegard makes, whether it truely can modify an ATF like Mobil 1 to work as well as the lesser quality Stock Dino ATF that Toyota uses. I would suggest calling a few Transmission shops in your area and asking about Lubegard. Whether it is any good. You will find that almost all professional transmission servicers recommend and use Lubegard products.
Also, Aamco, on of the largest transmission servicers, is now selling Lubegard (platinum, I believe) at Autozone packaged under its own name. Why not use Lubegard in conjuction with the synthetic Mobil 1 ATF and get a superior product in the end?
You could try ATF+3 in the Toyota as it is an HFM ATF... but its just a suggestion. I used ATF+3 in a 1989 Mazda 626 transmission, which are notorious for very high operating temperatures and rough shifting. Let me tell you, for a really worn, 15 year old tranny, it shifts like a champ with the ATF+3 in there and its been going for a while.
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