Subaru Forester?

[supton]

Ok, still looking...

Want a cheap vehicle, don't want to spend more than $5k but that's not realistic. But I'm looking for a vehicle that will only get around 5kmiles/year. After reading up on cooling issues it seems like it's too much of a risk to buy a 10 year old vehicle--a 5-7 year old vehicle shouldn't have any damage from coolant; unless it's high miles and/or a city commuter the ATF shouldn't be in bad condition. Rather than asking in prior threads I'll just start another.

Forester? I'm reading that head gaskets got better after 2000; instead of eating coolant internally they leak oil externally. Not great, but at least a bit better. 2005 and newer are much better in this regard--but not certain. That just leaves typical issues: wheel bearings, rust, clutches.

Only gotcha that I see is that the automatics have 2,000lb towing, while stick shift is 2,400lb.

I’d prefer stick shift, but I want the vehicle for a few reasons:
-back up vehicle for when the VW breaks
-AWD for NH snow
-I’d like for it to move my camper better, even if it is just to move around the yard.
A larger cargo area would be nice, a back seat that is wider than 50” would be nice too.

So I’m in a conundrum: auto has lower towing, but it’s going to move weight around my sloped yard better. But IIRC it has a different AWD.

 

[NateDN10]

Yes, the AWD systems are different with different transmissions.
Here's an explanation.

By 2005 (if not a year or two earlier) they had all the HG issues sorted out.

 

[pandus13]

I see you keep your cars for the long run. maybe (depending of conditions in your state) look for a salvage/rebuilt title subaru from a shop specializing in those repairs?
ford freestyle? various isuzu? another toyota 4runner/highlander?

 

[supton]

Nah, only about 10 years or so. Depends upon what I think the future may hold. I got rid of my Saturn too early--really wanted my TDi--so I dumped my '00 Saturn SL after only 4.5 years / 116kmiles. Wifey ditched '01 Civic LX after 10 years / 173kmiles. Wanted better features/safety and a larger car. The TDi I still rather like, but I don't know if I'll run much more than another 2-3 years--I'd like to think so, but who knows?

I will say, at the moment I have a great VW mechanic--who unfortunately wants to stick with just VW's. With a Subaru/etc I might be able to do more of the work myself--doubtful, but possible. Still, I don't want to walk into issues, don't want a problem vehicle that alternates shop time with my VW (which I'm hoping is going to go problem-free after having the weakest bits now finally replaced). Hence, I'm leery of older vehicles with unknown histories, or problematic vehicles--yet I can't bring myself to spend lots of money on a vehicle that is going to spend most of its time sitting...

 

[supton]

I dug up some numbers on the Forester; it gets odd.

Towing, Forester is 2,000lb auto, and 2,400lb stick. My VW is 1,500lb stick. The stickshift Subie has a 3.454:1 first gear, 4.111's and 777rev/mile tires--so about an effective takeoff multiplier of 13 (torque at whatever launch rpm times that). My VW has a 3.78:1 first, 3.89 final, and 807 rev/mile tires--for a multiplier of 14! And I tend to think of my first gear as being too high--and it's a low rev'ing diesel. No wonder why so many Subaru clutches are replaced early--take a rev-happy gasser, and stick it with a tall first gear...

It gets odder: best as I can tell, the 4EAT behind the 2.5L runs with a 3k rpm stall convertor! Yet this is a torquey motor by all accounts, with good low end torque. Yes, I know how a torque convertor works, and that there is a lockup feature: but still: that's rather high. I'm guessing if ever unlocks in the hills (as most 4spd autos are wont to do) it then helps explain the low mpg's (that, and deep 4.444:1 final drive). This also probably is why I see 2,000lb for the auto--too much transmission heat from running unlocked I'm guessing.

Just looking at all the factors. It sounds like the Subaru would be lousy at moving the trailer around for me, if I got the prefered stickshift. Which may be just as well, given their tendancy to eat clutches (while the 4eat is known to be pretty robust).

 

[BearZDefect]

Nice explanation page Nate linked above. From reading that, I like the manual transmission version better. It is much simpler, and should work well. All it needs is a nice short first gear to launch. Did that first gear ratio improve with the more recent 6 speed MT? I understand the 6-MT still isn't offered on the Forester.

Sorry to drift off topic supton.

 

[supton]

No prob--thread drift can be interesting.

 

[VicVinegar]

Have you checked out any of the Forester forums? The towing section on this particular forum seems to be fairly active. I know I found the Outback community to be very willing to answer questions for a potential buyer. I imagine the Forester folks are the same.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f137/

 

[supton]

Interesting forum. I'll dig around a bit there, thanks.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: VicVinegar
Have you checked out any of the Forester forums? The towing section on this particular forum seems to be fairly active. I know I found the Outback community to be very willing to answer questions for a potential buyer. I imagine the Forester folks are the same.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f137/


I am interested in an Outback. Is there a similar or same forum that I can ask vehicle-specific questions?

 

[VicVinegar]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: VicVinegar
Have you checked out any of the Forester forums? The towing section on this particular forum seems to be fairly active. I know I found the Outback community to be very willing to answer questions for a potential buyer. I imagine the Forester folks are the same.

http://www.subaruforester.org/vbulletin/f137/


I am interested in an Outback. Is there a similar or same forum that I can ask vehicle-specific questions?


http://www.subaruoutback.org

I bought one in May myself.

 

[cptbarkey]

pulled a sick engine out of a 1999 forester this past weekend. it has blown head gaskets, and oil leaks all over. definitely look out for head gasket issues. when inspecting get it hot and check the radiator overflow for any bubbles. if so, budget accordingly.

 

[supton]

I forget off the top of my head; but there is a break around 05 I think, where pre-'05 they will leak coolant and/or oil into the engine, while post-05 they will leak oil out of the engine (but at a lower failure rate). I do not recall the exact year this break occurs, and I think the break differs by model too (Outback, Forester, etc). But a slow external leak is not nearly dangerous as a fast internal leak.

 

[Thermo1223]

The best thing to look for is a car that had the HG done already because then you can be reasonably sure they used the updated one.

or

Buy a turbo one!

 

[supton]

Yeah, but then it's a roll of the dice as to how well it was put in. I'm too used to my VW to trust, well, anyone when it comes to jobs like that.

 

[Thermo1223]

Well Subaru dealers have always been spot on with me I never had an independent do any big work like that.

Heck a dealer near me would actually replace them on any trade-in that had less than 100k on it with the troubled years.

You could also look for a H6, timing chain, no belt or headgasket issues. They came in Outbacks & Legacy's.

 

[GearheadTool]

Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
pulled a sick engine out of a 1999 forester this past weekend. it has blown head gaskets, and oil leaks all over. definitely look out for head gasket issues. when inspecting get it hot and check the radiator overflow for any bubbles. if so, budget accordingly.



Quick refresher, you pull the cap off the overflow and then let it heat up and THEN look for bubbles after you turn the car off, right? I had one car with this tell-tale. Bubbles. I found out its significance when I asked the mechanic to do something else and told him I noticed exactly that. He then explained to me why he did not want to even touch the car. However.. because if you let it get hot THEN go to remove the cap, you are getting sprayed.. (right?)

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: GearheadTool
Originally Posted By: cptbarkey
pulled a sick engine out of a 1999 forester this past weekend. it has blown head gaskets, and oil leaks all over. definitely look out for head gasket issues. when inspecting get it hot and check the radiator overflow for any bubbles. if so, budget accordingly.



Quick refresher, you pull the cap off the overflow and then let it heat up and THEN look for bubbles after you turn the car off, right? I had one car with this tell-tale. Bubbles. I found out its significance when I asked the mechanic to do something else and told him I noticed exactly that. He then explained to me why he did not want to even touch the car. However.. because if you let it get hot THEN go to remove the cap, you are getting sprayed.. (right?)


i'm not sure myself, i did exactly that, opened the overflow with the car cold and then watched it as it heated up then bubbles appeared. this is exhaust gas escaping the head gasket through the coolant jackets in the engine block.

 

[supton]

You definately don't want to open hot, as the system is under pressure, with water just under or around the its boiling point--which you don't want to be suddenly wearing!