Subaru coolant refill - 2011 EJ25

[D60]

Finishing up this head gasket job on a 2011 Outback EJ25 SOHC.

In refilling with my radiator neck funnel I just kept getting some pretty violent eruptions once water temp hit 206F on my scanner. I kept trying to wait it out but finally chickened out. Temp would stay at 206F and it just kept a violent "boil"

I had read these can be difficult to get all the air out and debated using my vacuum filler. Perhaps I should have listened to that little voice.

Radiator is new Koyo and new t-stat from Six Star.

At this point I'm thinking let it cool and then try my vacuum filler. Other suggestions? @Trav

 

[cptbarkey]

Not really from my experience. I fill it and let it run to temp for a good 15-20 minutes waiting for the thermostat to open then top off. I sequeeze the upper rad hose every now and again to burp things.

A video would be ideal for this situation as your definition might be normal or not. Either way your definition doesnt sound good, try a test for exhaust gasses.

https://www.amazon.com/Block-Tester...6727&sprefix=exhaust+gas+teste,aps,124&sr=8-2

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Have to have the front end as high as possible, whether it’s Jack or ramps. On a hill plus jacks or ramps is even better. A Lisle-style filler funnel is absolutely needed. It took my 2007 Impreza over 30 minutes on ramps at 2500rpm to stop having bubbles.

It’s not a fast procedure even by watching paint dry standards. But it’s necessary, and be sure to add a bottle of Subaru Coolant Conditioner (really just rebadged Holt’s RadWeld) as a precaution.

 

[D60]

Have to have the front end as high as possible, whether it’s Jack or ramps. On a hill plus jacks or ramps is even better. A Lisle-style filler funnel is absolutely needed. It took my 2007 Impreza over 30 minutes on ramps at 2500rpm to stop having bubbles.

It’s not a fast procedure even by watching paint dry standards. But it’s necessary, and be sure to add a bottle of Subaru Coolant Conditioner (really just rebadged Holt’s RadWeld) as a precaution.

Six Star specifically says not to use conditioner with their HGs

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Six Star specifically says not to use conditioner with their HGs

Well if you’ve had to redo them and have done it right, yes that’s correct. I’m still on original 2007 head gaskets so… I keep my fingers crossed, add the conditioner, and say a prayer to the Boxer Gods to give me another season of not pulling the engine…

 

[Trav]

Finishing up this head gasket job on a 2011 Outback EJ25 SOHC.

In refilling with my radiator neck funnel I just kept getting some pretty violent eruptions once water temp hit 206F on my scanner. I kept trying to wait it out but finally chickened out. Temp would stay at 206F and it just kept a violent "boil"

I had read these can be difficult to get all the air out and debated using my vacuum filler. Perhaps I should have listened to that little voice.

Radiator is new Koyo and new t-stat from Six Star.

At this point I'm thinking let it cool and then try my vacuum filler. Other suggestions? @Trav

Remove the small coolant hose from intake to the throttle body, it will be the upper hose on the side (I put it in a larger clear plastic hose and into a container to prevent spilling it all over the show) and fill slowly engine off until it runs bubble free.

 

[D60]

Remove the small coolant hose from intake to the throttle body, it will be the upper hose on the side (I put it in a larger clear plastic hose and into a container to prevent spilling it all over the show) and fill slowly engine off until it runs bubble free.

I think the driver side tb input is slightly higher? Although that one comes off a heater hose hardline tee.

The pass side tb hose runs to a crossover under the plenum.

 

[D60]

Hmm, well I drained the system, vacuum filled and elevated the front on my lift much more than ramps would.

I still get violent boiling out of my filler neck funnel once it hits 206F

Again I tried to wait it out but it's extremely messy.

I don't get any bubbles beforehand at lower temps, so not sure this would be me screwing up the HG job (although I'm not saying I'm perfect).

Maybe once it's cooled tomorrow I'll try to check for exhaust gases.

I could also try Trav's filling approach but I wasn't fully understanding the process.

Kinda stumped. I've seen this violent boiling before on other vehicles but only briefly and then it settles. This acts as though there's no end once it starts.

 

[Trav]

Remove the one coming from the crossover, fill the system slowly allowing for the air to escape. You can also fill through the heater hose that goes to the crossover with a funnel.
These can be a real PITA.

 

[D60]

Remove the one coming from the crossover, fill the system slowly allowing for the air to escape. You can also fill through the heater hose that goes to the crossover with a funnel.
These can be a real PITA.

Ok thank you. Now I understand you were saying to use the clear tube vertically to watch for bubbles rising. Generally I need things dumbed down to a first-grade level (my wife agrees too readily)

Have you seen this before? I keep thinking eventually all the air will boil/burp out but it's like a game of chicken and I'm losing. In the meantime the entire front clip and belt drive is getting coated in coolant. Good times.

 

[Trav]

I have seen this many times, it is like a geyser, it took a few times before I got it right.

 

[D60]

I have seen this many times, it is like a geyser, it took a few times before I got it right.

Yes a geyser is a perfect description. It's just nice to know I haven't lost all my marbles. Thank you!

 

[D60]

Ok I opted to disconnect the driver side tb hose and slipped my clear tubing on there. I figured it would just flow the few inches through the tb and to the crossover tube. This seemed to work quite well, but as @Trav noted you've got to go slow. Eventually it started coming out of the hose I had disconnected, suggesting I had "completed the circuit."

I then clamped that little rubber hose and kept filling. I'd go really slow and if it backed up, wait because it would eventually take it. It finally began to fill my spill-free funnel which I also considered a good sign. Still, I worked it back and forth by manipulating my clear hose and squeezing the upper (and lower) rad hoses.

All told I got roughly 1/4 gallon in doing this -- maybe a bit more. The clear tube is awesome because you can watch air bubbles randomly appear just when you thought you were done.

And yet still, no change!
I did note the thermostat does not seem to be opening. At 190 on my scanner it did not feel like it was open, and this was still true at 206.

I felt in there yesterday when I had the lower hose off and it's not backwards (I don't think it will physically fit backwards). It's a new 'stat from Six Star listed as
21210AA120KA which I believe is OEM 190F

I know sometimes head gaskets will cause air down low and the t-stat won't open. However I'm getting zero bubbles in my spill-free funnel until I get a geyser.

I guess I'll pull the brand new t-stat and test it? I don't know what else to do....

 

[cptbarkey]

Yep, boil it on the stove see what happens. Hoping that is the issue. I linked an exhaust gas tester above. HF has them as well I believe.

I may have missed other posts, but did you use new head bolts, and check the engine and head with a straight edge? Might be time to start thinking back on the steps. My condolences.

 

[D60]

Just ran a quick block test. Water temp was only ~150F and ideally you want the t-stat open (which seems impossible right now) but the fluid stayed blue. Decidedly different from my previous results:
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/block-test-combustion-gases.383696/

Also, I only assume the t-stat is not opening because the first bit of lower hose near the block gets warm but the entire hose never feels warm like an upper hose would on a more traditional top-side t-stat setup. I would think once that 'stat opens the entire lower hose is going to be pretty warm? Or does cooler water coming down from the radiator make this untrue?

However, I'd expect to see water temp stay at ~190 if it was managing temps as it should.....unless a giant air pocket is preventing this

 

[IveBeenRued]

Can’t help with the violent boiling issue but don’t forget to add your Subaru Coolant Conditioner. I believe it is required by the service manual on your EJ.

 

[The Critic]

I have never worked on an EJ, but on the FB series motors, there is a very unique "dance" for refilling the cooling system. I don't have the procedure in front of me right now, but my recollection is that it involved revving the engine to 3k rpm immediately after start-up and doing a few other things. I would look up the factory procedure.

Let's just say I wasn't aware of it and was mortified when there was still no heat after 10 minutes of idling... and had to start over.

 

[D60]

I have never worked on an EJ, but on the FB series motors, there is a very unique "dance" for refilling the cooling system. I don't have the procedure in front of me right now, but my recollection is that it involved revving the engine to 3k rpm immediately after start-up and doing a few other things. I would look up the factory procedure.

Let's just say I wasn't aware of it and was mortified when there was still no heat after 10 minutes of idling... and had to start over.

Thanks. This one's putting out good heat.

Just boiled the new t-stat and it's fine of course -- I figured it would be.

The plan at this point is to refill again at the rad and at the tiny throttle body hoses until I'm confident I squeezed in as much coolant as I can.

Then run it with the nose elevated and spill-free funnel again squeezing the upper rad hose (this seemed to still get some air out yesterday) until maybe 180F, then cap and run it.

It either explodes or it doesn't. At this point I don't know what else to do. I really don't think there's anything wrong except maybe still air trapped deep in the system.

I don't think I'm infallible ‐‐ far from it -- but I'd need MORE to condemn my work on the head gaskets.

I'm also tempted to maybe take the nose scary-high on my 2-post and squeeze whatever else I can in the radiator. I mean with the lift the sky's (almost) the limit.....until it slides off backwards

 

[Trav]

That was going to be my next question, does it have heat? You say it does so at least it is circulating through the block. Try removing the upper radiator hose and filling it through that then top off the the radiator.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I have never worked on an EJ, but on the FB series motors, there is a very unique "dance" for refilling the cooling system. I don't have the procedure in front of me right now, but my recollection is that it involved revving the engine to 3k rpm immediately after start-up and doing a few other things. I would look up the factory procedure.

Let's just say I wasn't aware of it and was mortified when there was still no heat after 10 minutes of idling... and had to start over.

It’s essentially the same on an EJ from what I’ve seen, but I will try Trav’s guidance on my next coolant/thermostat swap before winter.