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I just use a sharpy and change mine back to 32. Easy fix.Oh, and are you spying on me? I’ve had to change from 32 to my current 36 w pants over the last decade and it makes me sad. Thanks for triggering me!
Study shows EVs more expensive to fuel vs ICE
- Thread starter SubieRubyRoo
- Start date
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
This has been my experience as well. I haven’t met a single holier than thou EV owner. It seems as if the negative emotional, irrational arguments come mostly from anti-EV people, whereas actual EV owners typically remain mostly to themselves. Furthermore, the opponents of EV don’t seem to have very convincing arguments. I don’t personally own an EV, but I will.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I buy Lucky jeans on sale every few years, on-sale. Stretchy pants FTW!
Get a quote from NY, which BTW Tesla doesn't offer insurance for.
There is a lot of misinformation about EVs, especially Teslas, out there. Sensationalism sells.
People ask me about our car; I tell them my experience. I also tell them they need to know how they are gonna charge and the cost to upgrade their home, if necessary. "Not sure" is a terrible plan. There is a statistic out there that says something like 25% of EV owners go back to ICE; almost all do so because of charging issues.
gathermewool
Site Donor 2023
I‘d argue that most mistakes in life are based on an inadequate level of knowledge and/or insufficient research. Also wants vs needs. Choosing an EV is no different.
Well, I don't live in NY. You asked what it cost to insure my car. I told you.
I do hope to visit upperstate NY soon to pay my respects at my Grandmother's grave.
Stubborness and closed minds can be an issue. Don't ask me how I know.
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I presume I will own an EV some day. It currently makes no sense for me however, gas prices in South Carolina are low, electricity is lower than some places but not cheap, and the ROI on a EV at this point would be like half a million miles and until I am dead. As such no manufacturer even allocates EV's to the state except Tesla.
Our power distribution isn't particularly great here either. Our previous utility imploded after trying to build a reactor that was never finished. They were then sold in bankruptcy to Dominion. Dominion has no interest in spending any money, and in the meantime people keep moving here so use goes up. Its probably good we don't have many EV's yet - until they get that problem sorted out.
I am sure that will change eventually. I would like a small, cheap, utilitarian EV with maybe 120 miles range. To use locally. Think Honda Element with an Electric motor. At this point EV's are a status symbol / luxury vehicle - here at least.
Uhhh, well let’s do some math.
Around here it’s 14.4 c/kWh for electricity. That’s after you use 1350 kWh (before is under 10c) but let’s roll with that.
So a vehicle with a 100 kWh battery would cost $14.40 to charge. Could drive around 620 km or so.
Meanwhile 87 is $1.80 per litre. So a compact car with a 60L tank would cost about $108 to fill… And at 8.5L/100 km that tank would get you about 700 km.
So the EV is costing 2.3 cents per km. The compact car about 15.4 c/km.
So even if you have to spend $1500 on a charger it would pay for itself in 11,500 km of driving which for someone like my wife is about 4.5 - 5 months. Then after that you’re spending pennies per km.
It is getting hard to justify not driving an EV if you’re not going outside the typical range.
Around here it’s 14.4 c/kWh for electricity. That’s after you use 1350 kWh (before is under 10c) but let’s roll with that.
So a vehicle with a 100 kWh battery would cost $14.40 to charge. Could drive around 620 km or so.
Meanwhile 87 is $1.80 per litre. So a compact car with a 60L tank would cost about $108 to fill… And at 8.5L/100 km that tank would get you about 700 km.
So the EV is costing 2.3 cents per km. The compact car about 15.4 c/km.
So even if you have to spend $1500 on a charger it would pay for itself in 11,500 km of driving which for someone like my wife is about 4.5 - 5 months. Then after that you’re spending pennies per km.
It is getting hard to justify not driving an EV if you’re not going outside the typical range.
You have an ICE vehicle as well?
I thought the whole idea of electric was to phase them out.
Not picking on you or your friends, but it certainly seems like EV’s being a pushed as a one size fits all solution. You and your friends are proving that not be the case.
No I replied to Brian 123 here:
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Brian 123 said:
Maybe also check to see what it cost to insure 1 of these Electric Vehicles.
demarpaint said:
You won't hear much talk about that, I asked in another thread and didn't get an answer. Lets just say it is quite a bit more than a comparable ICE vehicle. T-bone one, nothing crazy maybe 10-15 mph and mess up the battery. There's a very good chance they'll total it. T-Bone and don't mess up the battery, just wreck both doors, it might be another total. They're not cheap or easy to fix, and the insurance company knows it. Tesla offers their own insurance because they know the cost is high, IIRC states like NY and NJ Tesla doesn't offer it.
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I also used the example above in that same reply of a low speed T-bone accident. Don't believe me ask someone who owns a body shop, wrecked one, or search the topic. My point is people often forget these things in their examples of how much they're saving. And since no one has a 20+ year old Tesla yet we really don't know how much they'll save for a large percentage of the population that keeps vehicles a long time, like me, and many others here.
But hey we will never agree on this topic, so we might have to agree to disagree.
Hey @JeffKeryk since you’ve had a Tesla for awhile, do you get a 1:1 charge ratio or are there conversion losses? Meaning, if your house meter shows a usage of 50kW, does your Tesla show a 50kW gain?
Charging batteries is not like turning on an electric motor, plus there are charge controllers and other things that would be in the charge path sucking away precious electrons during the charge, correct? There have to be some losses there, likely ~10%? That would mean the supposed 50kW gain in the vehicle above would actually cost you 55kW from the electric co. Just trying to understand long-term charge observations and the correlation between the car & the wall kW…
Ya I don't know, but any ministry of propaganda would be proud of and has emulated them.
They're also pros at editorializing news. Editorialized news is a real threat to an informed public but it doesn't generate the same amount of revenue because viewers lack that emotional attachment.
Wait until they shut off your solar panels because they dont need your energy in the grid.
Exactly why I won’t ever own a grid-tie system. If I pull the trigger, it’s going to be a completely separate system (separate panel for solar & grid power), and I may or may not just sever the ties with AEP altogether and go off-grid. Even if I oversized my array by 20% for any future-added loads, I can get by with no more than 7.2kW array. Pair that with a 10kW propane backup gen for cloudy weeks and ample battery storage, and I can tell the grid they’re #1
I mention it every chance I get, usually gets deleted though.
I got rid of a car because the fees and insurance were more than it’s blue book
And this isn’t just plug ins, hybrids have the same issue if you live in the wrong area
I cannot speak to that, but my understanding is there are always transmission losses from source to destination. That's the nature of electricity.Hey @JeffKeryk since you’ve had a Tesla for awhile, do you get a 1:1 charge ratio or are there conversion losses? Meaning, if your house meter shows a usage of 50kW, does your Tesla show a 50kW gain?
Charging batteries is not like turning on an electric motor, plus there are charge controllers and other things that would be in the charge path sucking away precious electrons during the charge, correct? There have to be some losses there, likely ~10%? That would mean the supposed 50kW gain in the vehicle above would actually cost you 55kW from the electric co. Just trying to understand long-term charge observations and the correlation between the car & the wall kW…
You probably know more about that than I.
All I can tell you is, when I decided to do the solar project, I specifically asked for more capacity then was recommended. I figured that one day I might buy an EV and that I would probably use more electricity as time progressed. I was not gonna invest that much money and still have to pay PG&E. Remember, CA has some of the highest rates in the nation. So far I have not had an annual true up. I love my solar!
That's my point, and insurance costs have to be factored into the cost of owning and operating a vehicle, and are often conveniently overlooked. Here the insurance on a Tesla is quite a bit higher than a comparable ICE, making it a hard no for many people. Even Elon isn't insuring them here yet.
Transmission losses I know about; I was hoping you may have some way to correlate from plug to car what the difference in actual power transfer there was. Wanted to point out that just because EV says it holds 100kW does not equate to the same amount showing up on the power company bill. Not bashing EVs on this; as you acknowledge there are always transfer losses, but it appears some people forget this fact. And I get that having a built-in array that’s oversized makes any conversion losses from solar to battery power kind of a moot point. Thanks
Anybody else with EVs- do you monitor your monthly EV consumption and rectify it against what you see on your meter/bill?
As a final thought, I wonder if the eMPG calculations are done simply assuming the battery was fully charged, or accounting for conversion losses? Because charging with 110V will certainly have a different effect on conversion than a much higher voltage will- even simple computer power supplies generally gain 4-7% efficiency when going from 110V to 230V supply…
