STP = Classic

[labman]

I finally cut open the STP SO3950 today. I was very disappointed, but not that surprised to find it with no more media than recent L 10193's

It is at the bottom of this chart. Not sure just when some of this data was collected, at least 10 year ago. It shows the media in lower priced filters have steadily declined. It is possible that it has been offset by improvements in quality, but I wouldn't count on it. Not sure oil filters make much difference. As near as I can tell, the only difference between an SO3950 and an L10193 is the company's home country. Unless River Rat posts test results showing otherwise, may as well buy American. Purolator best buy for the buck? Not for mine.

Brand-----P/N----Length width area Fits---endcaps---mfg--valves
Older data, 2000 ?
AC Delco--PF9-------102 2 1/2 255 77 LUV
STP-------S02856A---108 1 3/4 189 ''
Purolator L10193----105 1 3/4 184 ''
Power Flo SL14619----76 2 3/8 180 ''
Hastings--LF143------71 2 1/2 178 ''
ST--------ST3950-----98 1 3/4 171 ''
Fram------PH 3950----48-1 3/4--84 ''
2003 filters
Miata-----B6Y214302--69 1 3/4 121 1991 Roadster
AC Delco--PF2244G*---46 3-----138 02 Cavalier--------France
STP-------9018-------57 2 1/2 143 ''-----------------Korea
Purolator L15436-----52 2 1/2 130 ''-----------------Thailand
WIX 57082 Never got around to measuring it.

22 Aug 03 filters were a year or 2 old

ST--------ST3950-----84 1 3/4 147 77 LUV--------metal---------ADBV bypass
Purolator L10193**---76-----2 152 ''-------------card USA '' ''
Purolator L10193-----96-----2 192***''----------metal India '' far end
AC--------PF1177-----92 2 1/2 230 ''-------------card Canada ''
AC--------PF 47------56-----2 112 92 GrandAm----metal ''
AC--------PF 52------53 3 3/4 198 '' OS---------''----''
ST--------ST 3387A---46-----2--92 '' ''----------------USA ''
ST****----ST3950-----90---2.1 189 77 LUV--------Metal--------ADBV, bypass
ST 6-05---clicker '' 90 1 3/4 157 ''------------------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
Purolator 9-08 L10193 64 1.75 112 ''--------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''

2009 data

Purolator L10193-----75 1 3/4 131 ''-------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
MicroGuardGL10193----64---1.6 102 77 LUV--------metal USA ADBV, dome
STP-------SO3950-----73 1 3/4 128--''-----------metal USA ADBV, dome
AC--------PF457------64---2.3 147 02 Cavalier plastic USA no valves (Hengst)
Dynalube--D5436------59--2.25 133 02 Cavalier plastic China
*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case

 

[Kaboomba]

Buy PureOne or Bosch Premium. Those really are the best bang for the buck, usually.

 

[Herz]

Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Buy PureOne or Bosch Premium. Those really are the best bang for the buck, usually.


Labman does not like his money going to germany, I actually agree with him. that does NOT mean they are bad filters though.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: Kaboomba
Buy PureOne or Bosch Premium. Those really are the best bang for the buck, usually.


You have some used oil analysis showing less wear metals using them than Frams? I see very little evidence it is worth while to spend more on any filter than you need to.

 

[RF Overlord]

Originally Posted By: defektes
Labman does not like his money going to germany, I actually agree with him.
Although money certainly goes back to the parent company, what about all the AMERICAN workers in the manufacturing plants here in the US? My Motorcraft (Purolator) FL820S filters all say "Made in USA" on them...I presume they're made by AMERICAN workers who are paid with my money.

 

[labman]

You buy a made in America Champ, Clarcor, or Wix, ALL the money stays here.

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Originally Posted By: RF Overlord
Although money certainly goes back to the parent company, what about all the AMERICAN workers in the manufacturing plants here in the US? My Motorcraft (Purolator) FL820S filters all say "Made in USA" on them...I presume they're made by AMERICAN workers who are paid with my money.

You know it's probably not worth arguing about. There's been a lot of protectionist/economic nationalist rhetoric around here lately; the economy goes south and I guess we have to chase the straw man that A.M. talk radio tells us to. So is the nature of certain elements in this forum...even though people forget BITOG isn't American, it's international.

BTW: As you correctly pointed out, Bosch (German) owns Purolator, which continues to employ American workers. As long as those workers continue to produce a quality product, which is the concensus here, I will continue to buy both Bosch & Purolator filters. If I felt so strongly otherwise (as Labman, for instance) , I wouldn't need oil filters...as I wouldn't own a car, since American ones tend to be predominantly made of foreign materials. Horse & buggy, anyone?

 

[Mustang_Cougar]

Originally Posted By: labman
You buy a made in America Champ, Clarcor, or Wix, ALL the money stays here.

Unless you are the either the CEO or CFO for those companies, or you sit on their corporate boards, you don't know where that money is. Sure, it could be in this country, but it also could be in a myriad of various foreign banking institutions. I don't think you're really privy to any of that information, so why make wild assumptions based upon a sticker on a box or a silk-screened label on a filter?

And one other thing: If Wix or Champ are putting their profits into American banks...banks that received TARP funds...that's a reason for a lot of Americans not to buy their products. All of us in this forum funded that interest free loan...and what did "American" banks like Bank of America, Citigroup & Wells Fargo do? They tightened their capital lending programs and paid off their own bad debts instead. Way to take care of American small business owners! And as an extension, way to take care of us, Wix & Champ!

What you advocate, Labman, is a slippery slope; the companies you advocate for our support might be worse than the foreign ones, IMO. But hey, I wouldn't "boycott" those filter manufacturers if they did support bad banking institutions, because it's ridiculous. Isolationism, economic nationalism, protectionism...those are fine for North Korea or Cuba; but they're very bad for America.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: labman
You buy a made in America Champ, Clarcor, or Wix, ALL the money stays here.

Not exactly. They have to pay dividends to stockholders worldwide if they are publicly traded companies.

Anyway, that said, the media in the old "96% efficient" Purolator you sent me, and normal Purolator on the shelf...the 97.5% equivalent one's have the same total amount of media as each other, and the non-Ecore STP you sent.

The non-Ecore STP has about 144 square inches of surface area about 2.6 cu in, the Puros about 100 sq in and also about 2.6 cu in, because it is much thicker media.
The flow rates on all three was a tie...Just waiting on filtration results.
Thicker media allows a certain porosity and physical strength without sacrificing flow or filtration...but less pleats can be formed and still have room between them. The results end up about the same--just different manufacturing techniques.
If you are going to measure media. Measure it all the way.

I could diss the Donaldson all day with it's lousy 36(?) pleats of very thick, full synthetic media but that would be stupid since it's performance is so [censored] good.


I know your Purolator posts are motivated by the fact that Bosch bought them. Everyone can see that by now.
Buy what you like, but they are still good filters and you will not succeed in putting a dent in their sales to punish Bosch.

 

[labman]

The Classic is a quite ordinary filter. I see no reason to buy from a foreign company over an American one unless you are one of their American employees.

 

[postjeeprcr]

Originally Posted By: labman
I finally cut open the STP SO3950 today. I was very disappointed, but not that surprised to find it with no more media than recent L 10193's

It is at the bottom of this chart. Not sure just when some of this data was collected, at least 10 year ago. It shows the media in lower priced filters have steadily declined. It is possible that it has been offset by improvements in quality, but I wouldn't count on it. Not sure oil filters make much difference. As near as I can tell, the only difference between an SO3950 and an L10193 is the company's home country. Unless River Rat posts test results showing otherwise, may as well buy American. Purolator best buy for the buck? Not for mine.

Brand-----P/N----Length width area Fits---endcaps---mfg--valves
Older data, 2000 ?
AC Delco--PF9-------102 2 1/2 255 77 LUV
STP-------S02856A---108 1 3/4 189 ''
Purolator L10193----105 1 3/4 184 ''
Power Flo SL14619----76 2 3/8 180 ''
Hastings--LF143------71 2 1/2 178 ''
ST--------ST3950-----98 1 3/4 171 ''
Fram------PH 3950----48-1 3/4--84 ''
2003 filters
Miata-----B6Y214302--69 1 3/4 121 1991 Roadster
AC Delco--PF2244G*---46 3-----138 02 Cavalier--------France
STP-------9018-------57 2 1/2 143 ''-----------------Korea
Purolator L15436-----52 2 1/2 130 ''-----------------Thailand
WIX 57082 Never got around to measuring it.

22 Aug 03 filters were a year or 2 old

ST--------ST3950-----84 1 3/4 147 77 LUV--------metal---------ADBV bypass
Purolator L10193**---76-----2 152 ''-------------card USA '' ''
Purolator L10193-----96-----2 192***''----------metal India '' far end
AC--------PF1177-----92 2 1/2 230 ''-------------card Canada ''
AC--------PF 47------56-----2 112 92 GrandAm----metal ''
AC--------PF 52------53 3 3/4 198 '' OS---------''----''
ST--------ST 3387A---46-----2--92 '' ''----------------USA ''
ST****----ST3950-----90---2.1 189 77 LUV--------Metal--------ADBV, bypass
ST 6-05---clicker '' 90 1 3/4 157 ''------------------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
Purolator 9-08 L10193 64 1.75 112 ''--------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''

2009 data

Purolator L10193-----75 1 3/4 131 ''-------------''---USA--ADBV, bypass '' ''
MicroGuardGL10193----64---1.6 102 77 LUV--------metal USA ADBV, dome
STP-------SO3950-----73 1 3/4 128--''-----------metal USA ADBV, dome
AC--------PF457------64---2.3 147 02 Cavalier plastic USA no valves (Hengst)
Dynalube--D5436------59--2.25 133 02 Cavalier plastic China
*The AC, Hastings, and Fram all said PURFLUX L264A on the end of the plastic housing.
**Interesting 1 piece of rubber for both valves
***The media was noticable thinner than the others
****9-04 newer black case


Prepared to be flamed for not following....lol

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: labman
The Classic is a quite ordinary filter.

I disagree. It is better than average in it's price class.


Originally Posted By: labman
I see no reason to buy from a foreign company over an American one unless you are one of their American employees.

That's fine. But for the hours you spend trying to make Purolators look bad, you could justify the cost of a nice, $10 Mobil 1.

 

[ctc]

Originally Posted By: labman
You buy a made in America Champ, Clarcor, or Wix, ALL the money stays here.


I'm just curious. Are you this picky about where the parent company is headquartered for all of your purchases? I probably go through 4 oil filters in a year for a total of about $20-$25. I spend way more on other day to day items.

What gas do you buy?
What oil brand do you use?
What tire brands do you buy?
What brand of razor do you use?

 

[river_rat]

labman, I posted results on the filtration thread. The non-Ecore STP is very good.

 

[labman]

Originally Posted By: ctc
Originally Posted By: labman
You buy a made in America Champ, Clarcor, or Wix, ALL the money stays here.


I'm just curious. Are you this picky about where the parent company is headquartered for all of your purchases? I probably go through 4 oil filters in a year for a total of about $20-$25. I spend way more on other day to day items.

What gas do you buy?
What oil brand do you use?
What tire brands do you buy?
What brand of razor do you use?



I have long tried to buy American anytime I can get similar value in an American made product. I can get an STP for the price of a Purolator and have seen nothing to suggest the Purolator is any better. I am really sick of those ranting and raving how great they are when the American owned Champs are about the same. The Clarcor built Pronto on my truck now was cheaper and likely better than a Purolator.

 

[river_rat]

Champs are fine, but they don't filter or seem to flow quite as well as the Puro whits cans....They do have a threaded end bypass whick is a good idea in theory at least...if you trust a nitrile disk to do the job consistently in all temperatures and for long oil change intervals.
The Puros have a dome end bypass, but I doubt that anything significant gets back out of the media since there is still oil moving through it when the bypass opens, and I like the metal spring.
IMO, the Puro is a better filter. You like the Champs, and that's fine, They are good and work, but you are trying to "make" it a better filter because it is American owned and fits in your price point.
That, and that alone, is what I disagree with.
I also TRY to buy American when there is a similar deal.
I bash GM sometimes but I own GM stock, and no other. LOL

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: labman
I can get an STP for the price of a Purolator and have seen nothing to suggest the Purolator is any better. I am really sick of those ranting and raving how great they are when the American owned Champs are about the same. The Clarcor built Pronto on my truck now was cheaper and likely better than a Purolator.


According to river_rat's talcum filtering performance testing, I don't recall one filter that showed a noticeably better filtering performance than the Purolators - there were some that looked about equal, but none better IIRC. Can you go find one post in his 40 page thread where any filter showed less passed material?

What kind of car do you own?

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat

The Puros have a dome end bypass, but I doubt that anything significant gets back out of the media since there is still oil moving through it when the bypass opens, and I like the metal spring.


Yeah, labman's two biggest hang-ups .... "is it an American owned and American built filter" and "does it have a dome end metal-to-metal bypass valve".

Let me point out that the WIX/NAPA Gold/Motorcraft filters that have a base end bypass valve have nothing more than a metal-to-metal seal between the media cartridge and the valve. It's is just as likely to leak as a dome end metal-to-metal bypass valve.

And I agree with river_rat that when a dome end bypass valve does open, the trapped debris in the media pleats goes nowhere because there is still oil flowing through the entire media area which holds the debris down in the pleats. Maybe IF a filter was totally clogged with crud because it was on a totally sludged up engine, and the bypass valve opened, then some crud might get washed out and go into the engine.

 

[river_rat]

Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
[Purolator] metal-to-metal bypass valve".

Metal to metal? Who said that? They are composite disk to metal in the ones I opened.
Never seen one leak myself.

 

[SuperBusa]

Originally Posted By: river_rat
Originally Posted By: SuperBusa
[Purolator] metal-to-metal bypass valve".

Metal to metal? Who said that? They are composite disk to metal in the ones I opened.
Never seen one leak myself.


The Purolators that have the flat spiral looking spring have a metal-to-metal seal on the bypass valve (disk) I believe. Like photo below ...

You must have seen the Purolators with the coil spring bypass valve setup like what is used on the PL20195? Got a photo you can post up?