Storm Windows vs New Windows

[MountainManDan]

Marine rated Storms Give Both More & Better Seals & 2X Stronger Glass - thou - Marine Storms are Fixed ..
No Issue as Not Opening Really Big Windows anyhow ..

3 Things on Storms ~ Measure ~ Measure ~ Measure ..then there @ Least 5 Other Items ..

I'll Try to Hit upon some all Important Items . .

1. Prep is all about Prep ..

Not Foaming - Complete Window Jam was 3 Sides Only - Prepped Drilled & Filled ~ Foam - Pest Foam is Hardest Sealed Type Foam ..

100% all way around on 3 Sides as there has to be some Breathing - especially at Tall Windows - Really any windows ..

Drilled Pest Foam Filled then Cut off - Cleaned Sanded More Prep & Painted

THIS GIVES YOU A REAL - LOOK AT - LEAKS IN JUST CAULKING WINDOW

JUST SEE WHERE HARD CLOSED CELL FOAM LEAKED OUT EVERYWHERE . .

Then SCRAPED that all Off ~ Sanded & Painted . .

Over Fire Door ~ Exit ~ at Bottom of Basement so like My Feet are 11ft - 12ft or when I was Sitting doing all
Finish Work - not 100% Done in this Pic but almost .. Razor All Glass . .

Still Have to Place Storm . .

 

[MountainManDan]

I Order Storms 1.5" Wider & 1.75" Taller - Nice E Coating - Not Super Best E-coating but Works ..

By Ordering Larger U Avoid Loosing View and Gain more Glass which Does all Work anyhow .. 2X Strength
Holding Tabs : Do allow Removal If Needed to Clean - so - 1.5 Yr & Still Spotless .. Much Quieter & Area's
where Big 5 Windows are - much Cooler in Summer & Warmer on Cold Nights in Winter . .

Utility Bills on Average with 80% Windows are seeing $45-50 Lower ..
Just Got Last 3 Windows in Up Stairs - which were some of Worst Leaking Units .. so should be Consistent $50 less or more ..
In Ten Years that $50 will be more like $75-$80 as Utilities Bills Climb . .

We Pulled all Glass Panels Before Trimming with Special Alloy Blade on Circular Saw . . which Started to Vibrate More on Last 2 Lengthwise Cuts .057 Think Aluminum . .
Blade was Dulling some .. after 5 Windows - then Finished with Grinder . . to Remove Burrs !

( Had to Feed at Certain Speed for Best Results )
I also Cut a Starting Slit with Grinder & Ending Slit to Keep from Bending !

Could have been done with 100% Grinder ~ Slower . . but works . .

Some Installers just Used Sharpe Razor & make Lots & Lots of Scores to Bend Off
Snap Lines .. I Found this to be NOT as Clean ..

Easy Set Up Table Got Job Done : Larson Marine Storms 503E for $205.oo
Got Job Done are Quite & Leak Proof x 5 Units Tall Windows ~ saved ~ 4K vs Brand New Install Windows ..
As really can't do After Market Unless - Really Wide Jams 4.75" min.
Good Amount of Work .. but Prep did Trick . . - Not Half Much Work Doing Brand ~ New Windows
of this Size $ $ $ $

 

[MountainManDan]

Seeing most important item in windows is Glass
Order Windows must Larger then Cut Frames back some say just Score with Razor 5 Times & Break Alu. Off !
We found this ~ Not Case ~ .057 Thk. Material also wants to Bend . .
​

A Few Other Items that are Different about Storm Window Installs ~
You Use a Different Type of Caulk ~ It's Called Rope ~ You have Weeps in Bottom 2 Outside Corners
Here I used a Double Row - as most - Rope Caulk Today is Thinner & Lighter then in Old Days . . still cheap Thou ..
It is Easiest Way also when Doing Storms = No Mess also ..

A WORD ABOUT WEEPS - DEPENDING YOUR HOME - MAY NOT NEED TO USE THEM - JUST CAULK RIGHT PAST ..
IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOMES HUMIDITY CONTROL & AMOUNT OF MOISTURE BEING PLACED INTO HOME ..

If Your Home is Over a Non-Controlled Open Crawl Space then by All Means Use them ..Living Space is Over well Controlled Space or Basement . . Seal them Up ( NO Fog ) Issues or Condensation . . Have NO issues & I SEALED Weeps

but I left Bottoms of Old Jams NON_FOAMED . . To Act as Internal Drain Points .. If Required ..
AIR GAP IN BETWEEN BRICK & OUT SHELL . .
( I have Sprayed Home Clear Breathable Sealer ) Water will NOT Enter , but Vapor is able to Leave !

NOTE - Little Tiny Corner being Removed ( Shinny ) Right next to Lower Right Screw Head - I had to remove that do to Fact I Ordered Over Size Storms - then Cut Back Mount Fins to Max Out Glass ~ & ~ Loose No View Area ..

As Contractors will Order standard Size & will Loss 2" of Viewing at every window Edge & Top & Bottom ..
Not to Mention Glass does all Work - so want to Max that Effect . .

Normally Storms could Remove as Much 2" of Viewing on all sides . . Then - Talking More Alu which isn't Big Deal - If Your Installing for Speed . .
Glass does Good Work - just Need enough Alu. to Cover Old
Jams for Protection . .

THIS IS PICTURE OF DETAIL THAT MUST BE FOLLOWED TO MAXIMIZE STORMS OVER ALL EFFECT & MINIMIZE
VIEW LOST . . 1.5" Wider ~ & ~ 1.75" Taller

also Note Weep - I did Fully Seal this Area up much more might be small 1/16" hole when Mounted . .
NOTE : SHINNY Grinding Area - that had to be Removed to Fit & Seal Flat on Casings

 

[JHZR2]

Makes sense to me.

I have an old storm window over a large stained glass window on my landing. I really have to wonder if a newer/better, more modern one would be of benefit…

 

[Cujet]

Wow! Windows can be a huge expense. Nice job!!

 

[MountainManDan]

Thanks Men

Savings Adds up with Self Installs - this - Took Time . . which many might not have ..Today's World . .
( Installation is Very Important )

E~Coatings do Help Bunch - there are - Carbon Graphite Coated Tints to be Had for Lower Budget & Far Less Time Intensive . .
As this Progresses ~ I'll Try ~ cover some of those Topic's . .

Tools for DIY for Storms :

 

[MountainManDan]

Shifting from Storms ~ New Windows ~ Installs - get way More Intense & Way more Tools & Ladders needed . .

Utility Bill ~ Savings Generally is Greater with New Windows vs Storms , but On Large Windows with Price Tags $1000 each
most will start Weight in that Cost . .

1. If You Not Super Careful - could get - Taken Advantage of By Manufacture or Buyer on Your Order .. Try Go Direct . .
2. Designs now Favor Triple Glazing's - which - Generally have Extra E-Coatings which really Help Heat Retention & Heat Rejection ..

Also Weighting into Cost : New Windows : Now You have to Calculate In Trimming Out - Inside _ Real Cost Factor . .

Before - After

Old Window have Big Leaks ~ Many ~ that only be ~ Addressed with Full Trim Out . .

 

[MountainManDan]

Then If You have any Windows that ~ Dual or Mulled ~ even More Area's for Leaks & Concerns - How Factory will Address
This Area .. I Found with 2 Manufactures Cost to have Done - is - Outrageous . . & . . Quality Poor . .

Old Side By Side ~ Windows ~ Have some Big Leakage . . not to Mention " Large Metal Condensation Points " . .

Filling Lower Jam on Solid Window Frames : Bases aren't Fully Solid

Did I say New Windows are Much More Intensive Work ..
Pockets got Foamed after Install ~ But Drilling ~ had to be ~ SET First for Depths . .

Mulled & Bases Filled ~ 100% Sealed Pans all Bottom Corners & Framing . .

Back Porch after some Real Restoration Work - that - Included Every Trade . .

 

[MountainManDan]

Double Doubles ~ with 1 Piece Base & Header - over 8ft all Cut all Hand Fitted . .

Not Fully Finished here - No Mop & No Top Trim : Center Column Trim all Placed After . .

 

[MountainManDan]

Example of How Thermal Breaks - were used with Old Original 4 x 4 Turned into 5" x 6" Original Walls needed 75% Rebuilding
Do to Lack of Controlling Water & Moisture . .

Able to bring 1.70" Bow in Walls down to .700 " Wife says I Mover Her Wall over 1"
over 16ft Length ~ Hence Hand Cutting & Hand Fitting every Piece . .
Able to Keep solid 3" Solid Wood Flooring by doing Restoration vs 100% Demolition - just to - Up Grade Windows :

No Insulation & NON-Vented Picture Windows - reached 130F in this Porch . . Before

 

[JB250]

Thanks for sharing your storm windows install and techniques. Outstanding Job, Well Done!

 

[MountainManDan]

To any & all those that may have Helped along Way - You always got - Sq. Deal , Handshake , Sq. Meal . .

Hence : Sq. Doors on Hoosier . .

During School after Air-force one of My Buddies went into Wood Tech ~ I went Mechanical Design ..
His Dad had wood Shop & Entire 3 story Commercial Building ( Like Huge Beams & Floors Hold Folk Lifts )
, so He Built this in His Dad's Shop He Took Over after School . . was Done . .

I got all Oak sent up Assembly Line to My Area - ( I Worked Summer Job Also ).
When all those Supports of Desk Tops & Table Tops - some of Conference Tables 16ft x 7ft . .Oval's
were Suppose to be Pine Cut Off's or Left Overs - so - Oak Found it's Way to My Home . . as Boys said Thank You ..
42 Yrs ago ..

 

[MountainManDan]

Thanks for sharing your storm windows install and techniques. Outstanding Job, Well Done!

STORM WINDOWS ~ NOW ARE ~ PGT/CGI, Marvin Coastline, and Pella Defender.

New Windows used in this Home are : Jeld~ Wen & Anderson's

 

[Cujet]

Wow. How about coming over my place in TN and installing some new windows? Kidding of course, the place is new. But they did a terrible job on the windows.

 

[MountainManDan]

I Know what Ya Mean- after talking to few Installers _ I was Like these Folks have to be Kidding , Me

Try to Nail down Details - get No we don't do it that way BS , after They Informed Me they were doing it Correctly , so
Then I asked If there was anything Wrong wit Details I'm asking for I get : ( NO not at All but You don't want to Pay for that ! )

Lady up Road - had Her Brand New Windows all Removed & Replaced by another Company 2yrs later to get all BS Resolved ..

In Many Places due to Brick & Masons not being most Accurate Type of Profession - I Actually Had to Diamond Saw several
Brick Opening as those were not Centered to Rough Opening = PITA

2 Places as Bricks were being Cut for Sills - Mason Placed in Backwards - so - Angled Cut was Facing Up - His Helper
Could have Handed Him those Backwards . . ( Found Few Other Examples ) in Basement " Carpenter's " had to be His Father or
Brothers ..

Pic. Of Issues - can't find Photo of One Placed Up side Down @ Moment - these are cut back 7 Degree's - so If Installed Up Side
Down - Windows Bottom Sash Barely Covers - with 5" Width so Caulk Cracks - Wind Driven Rain Leaks into Wall Cavity

Now Ya Know - Why I ***** ( About Skinny Windows )

That is Exactly Why Back Porch Roof Assembly Failed !

These are - Just Cuts - that are Wrong : I had to Repair Area's

 

[MountainManDan]

Basically 80% of all Southern Homes are Brick , Block, Rock- Now Air Crete 36" x 24" Blocks ..
All Need Really Wide Jams - Window Industry seen this Coming & Went with Skinny Frames ..

I Feel They Stood ~ Out Front of Their Building and Flipped everyone in USA Off !
Moved Real Windows into Specialist Shops & Supplier - Re-Marketed & Tacked on $500 Bucks Min.

Entire Time Advertising How High Quality & Energy Saving Products are .. 40% Installs on Bricks Homes
Are - Incorrect !

My Rant - should also Include Fact that , All Bow & Garden Windows - Should ONLY come from - Factory with Insulation
Tops & Bottoms as Most Installs do Halfway Measures ..

Folks in UK get 5K to Up Grade Their Furnace , we get Tax Relief which only good for those making 75K
Retiree's that are Doing over 50% of Up Grades in America Pay $8 Dollars File that Form and get Nothing Back Zero . .

New Windows are Way More Work & Cost 66% more then Very Good Storm that have Correct Spans on Jams . .

How Many Ladders does Guy Need to Install Windows anyhow ? ( I Be Jamming ) Stepping from 1 to Other
Finish Up Center Mull Trims - Plus Steel Upper Support " Thermal Break " - then Trimmed that - those are - Not Done in Pic.
of Uppers - just - Den far left & Front Door Assembly @ this Stage ..

 

[MountainManDan]

Do I need to Mention : ~ H O M E S of H O M E S ~ I'm worst then He is . .

All Sills were Power Washed Before Hand then Ground with HD Blue Sanding Disc - then - Cleaned , Etched
Mortar Repaired :

Before Bricks were Diamond Cut to Straight & Flat - Lets say way more Sq. & Straight Line to Bump Mulled Window Units
Up Against ..

Had to Tape & Outside Corners Tape added Protection :

Even Ground on Upper Metal Lintel & then Sanded - then - Painted
Before Install ..

PREP ~ PREP ~ PREP

Thermal Break Added - like - 75%-80% Cedar Shakes Placed almost Solid Across Top - Foamed In ,
Snapped Off & Cut Slightly back on Outside to Allow Upper Trim Piece to be Fitted . .

If You look at Earlier Gap Pic you'll see small pieces of Mortar - We Pulled all Loose & Wedged Mortar all around 4 sides
Big Double Window here we Removed 8 lbs of Crappy Mortar ( Thermal Connection ) NOT NEEDED ..
Going back 5-6" all way around These Area's on 3 Sides Foam Filled
Rock Wool Placed at Bottom . .