Stop Playing Chemist
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Originally Posted By: 440Magnum
I wouldn't use their stuff in a high performance modern production car like my SRT-8 or a Corvette that's going to see well over 100k miles of use, I'd use M1 or PP, maybe Redline or RP. I WOULD use JG or similar products in a purpose-built racing engine.
+1
FWIW,(JHZR2) I think it can't be called playing anymore once you start getting paid for it.
I wouldn't use their stuff in a high performance modern production car like my SRT-8 or a Corvette that's going to see well over 100k miles of use, I'd use M1 or PP, maybe Redline or RP. I WOULD use JG or similar products in a purpose-built racing engine.
+1
FWIW,(JHZR2) I think it can't be called playing anymore once you start getting paid for it.
Originally Posted By: buster
Point is though, just because oils are compatible doesn't mean mixing them will give you superior results. That is extremely naive.
That isn't the point of the article.
They are not advising against blending fully formulated oils but rather adding additives to existing oils; two different things.
In fact JG does recommend the blending of some of their oils such as XP0, XP1, XP2, XP3 and XP6. They do advise that their race oils and street oils should not be blended.
Point is though, just because oils are compatible doesn't mean mixing them will give you superior results. That is extremely naive.
That isn't the point of the article.
They are not advising against blending fully formulated oils but rather adding additives to existing oils; two different things.
In fact JG does recommend the blending of some of their oils such as XP0, XP1, XP2, XP3 and XP6. They do advise that their race oils and street oils should not be blended.
Originally Posted By: buster
^ that's what I'm talking about.
However, mixing Redline with Joe Gibb's is a big no no and they will tell you this themselves.
I'm sure their talking about their race oils.
The more info you can get regarding a potential blend the better, but when it comes to street oils, as long as they have met the ASTM D6922 miscibility standard one has nothing to be concerned about.
^ that's what I'm talking about.
However, mixing Redline with Joe Gibb's is a big no no and they will tell you this themselves.
I'm sure their talking about their race oils.
The more info you can get regarding a potential blend the better, but when it comes to street oils, as long as they have met the ASTM D6922 miscibility standard one has nothing to be concerned about.
Originally Posted By: RTexasF
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Also interesting is point #4, where they say don't use oils containing Moly during break-in.
Should someone tell Honda about this?
They've been doing it wrong all these years!
Exactly what I was thinking.
I guess Honda's got it all wrong.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
Also interesting is point #4, where they say don't use oils containing Moly during break-in.
Should someone tell Honda about this?
Exactly what I was thinking.
Here are threads related to additive interactions: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1091316 and
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1045858&page=1
Negative interactions between different additives and base oils and correction fluids are possible when mixing different formulations. This applies to mixing fully formulated oils as well. This has nothing to do with miscibility, which is generally not an issue.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1045858&page=1
Negative interactions between different additives and base oils and correction fluids are possible when mixing different formulations. This applies to mixing fully formulated oils as well. This has nothing to do with miscibility, which is generally not an issue.
Thanks JAG.
I don't know why anyone would think they can mix two different formulas and create a better one. Just because you can technically mix oils together being they are compatible doesn't mean you should. Nor does it tell you what you end up with.
For example, adding Redline to Mobil 1. Both use completley different base oils and two different types of moly. Who the heck knows what you would end up with mixing those together.
I don't know why anyone would think they can mix two different formulas and create a better one. Just because you can technically mix oils together being they are compatible doesn't mean you should. Nor does it tell you what you end up with.
For example, adding Redline to Mobil 1. Both use completley different base oils and two different types of moly. Who the heck knows what you would end up with mixing those together.
JAG's reasoning is why, when switching from dino to syn for the first time (after 100k miles on a newly bought 05 Camry), I stayed with the same brand, and the same weight range as well.
...but I'm conservative when changing fluids...and am uncomfortable with the possible impact of different formulations.
It's worked out well...With 5w-30 PYB to PP...Kitacamry runs smoother and quieter with no drop in oil yet after 1k miles.
...but I'm conservative when changing fluids...and am uncomfortable with the possible impact of different formulations.
It's worked out well...With 5w-30 PYB to PP...Kitacamry runs smoother and quieter with no drop in oil yet after 1k miles.
I remember JAG posted a few years ago that he used to add RL as an additive. Not sure if it was to boost the additive levels or simply add some POE/PAO to the mix.
I blend for one primary reason, to alter the viscosity, usually of what's already in the sump, not to change the oil's chemistry per se. The fact remains that most of us who like to try different oils are effectively running blends most of the time.
A oil change will still have 10-20% of the old oil in the engine or we may top up with something different, the result is a blend.
Are there negative consequences such as an actual additive clash to running blends whether intentional or unintentional such a change in oil brand? I think most would agree the answer is no. One thing all formulators will agree on is that it is absolutely unnecessary to flush your engine before switching to their brand of oil from a competitor.
That said, some blends are potentially better than others and the more information one has about what you're trying to accomplish the better. If you can stay with oils made by the same formulator then you can ask them if there is anything to be concerned about and get an informed answer. Not surprisingly most companies will tell you that there are no issues.
I blend for one primary reason, to alter the viscosity, usually of what's already in the sump, not to change the oil's chemistry per se. The fact remains that most of us who like to try different oils are effectively running blends most of the time.
A oil change will still have 10-20% of the old oil in the engine or we may top up with something different, the result is a blend.
Are there negative consequences such as an actual additive clash to running blends whether intentional or unintentional such a change in oil brand? I think most would agree the answer is no. One thing all formulators will agree on is that it is absolutely unnecessary to flush your engine before switching to their brand of oil from a competitor.
That said, some blends are potentially better than others and the more information one has about what you're trying to accomplish the better. If you can stay with oils made by the same formulator then you can ask them if there is anything to be concerned about and get an informed answer. Not surprisingly most companies will tell you that there are no issues.
I agree with most of what you said. Think of it this way though. Company A and Company B. Say both formulate their oils to meet specs A B & C, but both companies use entirely different chemistry.
Company A uses a Group III/IV blend with moly from company A. Company B uses a moly from company D with a V/IV blend. Both work and are good products. You decide you like qualities of A for some specific reason and some qualities of oil B for some reason.
You then think you can add A to B and get what you want. Do you know that at that point? If both oils were run through expensive engine testing to validate there performance, and are engineered with specific additive/base oil ratios, and you disrupt that with unknowns, you really don't know.
Yes, they are compatible, but whether it's good/bad is simply unknown until tested.
Company A uses a Group III/IV blend with moly from company A. Company B uses a moly from company D with a V/IV blend. Both work and are good products. You decide you like qualities of A for some specific reason and some qualities of oil B for some reason.
You then think you can add A to B and get what you want. Do you know that at that point? If both oils were run through expensive engine testing to validate there performance, and are engineered with specific additive/base oil ratios, and you disrupt that with unknowns, you really don't know.
Yes, they are compatible, but whether it's good/bad is simply unknown until tested.
Another example is with MaxLife. Vavoline uses their own proprietary seal conditioners which are not the same as what Mobil uses in their HM oils. You can't just assume mixing is going to give you your desire result. It's just common sense. No, you won't hurt anything, but you're not gaining anything either.
Originally Posted By: buster
Another example is with MaxLife. Vavoline uses their own proprietary seal conditioners which are not the same as what Mobil uses in their HM oils. You can't just assume mixing is going to give you your desire result. It's just common sense. No, you won't hurt anything, but you're not gaining anything either.
And what is the "desired result" of mixing those two oils?
I can't think of one.
But if you did is Mobil or Valvoline recommending not switching from one to the other? No.
Another example is with MaxLife. Vavoline uses their own proprietary seal conditioners which are not the same as what Mobil uses in their HM oils. You can't just assume mixing is going to give you your desire result. It's just common sense. No, you won't hurt anything, but you're not gaining anything either.
And what is the "desired result" of mixing those two oils?
I can't think of one.
But if you did is Mobil or Valvoline recommending not switching from one to the other? No.
If you're going to mix, mix within brands. Will mixing brands hurt? No, CATERHAM makes a good point: when you change your oil and switch brands, you are in a sense mixing brands with the remaining old oil in the sump. That doesn't hurt anything, but if you are mixing with the intent of tweaking viscosity, I'd stick with the same brand. Having said that, the last year or two of oil changes for my beater Aerostar I tossed all the widow and orphan qts. I had laying around in it. Aside from the oil pan rotting from the outside in, no problems to report. lol
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: buster
Another example is with MaxLife. Vavoline uses their own proprietary seal conditioners which are not the same as what Mobil uses in their HM oils. You can't just assume mixing is going to give you your desire result. It's just common sense. No, you won't hurt anything, but you're not gaining anything either.
And what is the "desired result" of mixing those two oils?
I can't think of one.
But if you did is Mobil or Valvoline recommending not switching from one to the other? No.
You're avoiding the point. Ok, let's take your VI fetish. Mix some Mobil 1 0w40 with some Redline or TGMO and tell me what you get? You can't.
Originally Posted By: buster
Another example is with MaxLife. Vavoline uses their own proprietary seal conditioners which are not the same as what Mobil uses in their HM oils. You can't just assume mixing is going to give you your desire result. It's just common sense. No, you won't hurt anything, but you're not gaining anything either.
And what is the "desired result" of mixing those two oils?
I can't think of one.
But if you did is Mobil or Valvoline recommending not switching from one to the other? No.
You're avoiding the point. Ok, let's take your VI fetish. Mix some Mobil 1 0w40 with some Redline or TGMO and tell me what you get? You can't.
I think one guy mixed Mobil 1 0w40 with TGMO and the UOA was okay.
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Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
I think one guy mixed Mobil 1 0w40 with TGMO and the UOA was okay.
But what does an "OK" UOA tell us other than the oil was still in serviceable condition? It doesn't tell us if the performance of either lubricant was somehow compromised as a result of the blending.
I think one guy mixed Mobil 1 0w40 with TGMO and the UOA was okay.
But what does an "OK" UOA tell us other than the oil was still in serviceable condition? It doesn't tell us if the performance of either lubricant was somehow compromised as a result of the blending.
Originally Posted By: buster
I don't know why anyone would think they can mix two different formulas and create a better one. Just because you can technically mix oils together being they are compatible doesn't mean you should.
I would have to agree with you on this. Caterham does certain blending successfully and he has a certain goal in mind. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable and likely to me that the miscibility standard is to prevent disasters from top ups with different oils or issues when switching brands or formulations, rather than to assist amateur chemists.
I don't know why anyone would think they can mix two different formulas and create a better one. Just because you can technically mix oils together being they are compatible doesn't mean you should.
I would have to agree with you on this. Caterham does certain blending successfully and he has a certain goal in mind. Nonetheless, it seems reasonable and likely to me that the miscibility standard is to prevent disasters from top ups with different oils or issues when switching brands or formulations, rather than to assist amateur chemists.
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