Steroids scandal.
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Jason Giambi became a bio-chemistry test lab. I suspect he may never play again. He has ruined his health.
And Barry Bonds can hit all the artificially enhance home runs he wants....I doubt any real baseball fan will regard his records as legitimate.
This is what happens when you have a very weak Commissioner, owners willing to look the other way, and players (and their union) who put money above all else.
Anybody who hits more than 40-45 home runs is now automatically suspected of being a juicer.
And Barry Bonds can hit all the artificially enhance home runs he wants....I doubt any real baseball fan will regard his records as legitimate.
This is what happens when you have a very weak Commissioner, owners willing to look the other way, and players (and their union) who put money above all else.
Anybody who hits more than 40-45 home runs is now automatically suspected of being a juicer.
What K1xv said in the last post is one of the wisest statements I have seen. No matter what if anything is done about Barry Bonds and no matter what he achieves in his career, there will always be questions about whether to count his records or not. Even if nothing is done about him he has destroyed his career. Questions about whether to accept his records or not will never stop following him. He could crush the records of Babe Ruth totally and leave Ruth's records far in the dust, and it will not matter. There will always be somebody saying, 'Yeah, but can his records really be counted?'
And we now have several examples of what can happen to people who use steroids. Lyle Alzado might be the best example. I remember him well-he used to play for the Denver Broncos. He also played for the Raiders.
And we now have several examples of what can happen to people who use steroids. Lyle Alzado might be the best example. I remember him well-he used to play for the Denver Broncos. He also played for the Raiders.
Was this a surprise to any baseball fan out there? Barry Bonds goes from an skinny left fielder to a guy that is better suited for 1st base in about a year.
I don't like BB but I think he would have broken the HR record even if he wasn't juiced. Before the juice he was still hitting almost 50 HRs a year. It would have taken him another year or two,but he'd have still gotten there.
I guess I shouldn't assume that he'll break the record though.
I don't like BB but I think he would have broken the HR record even if he wasn't juiced. Before the juice he was still hitting almost 50 HRs a year. It would have taken him another year or two,but he'd have still gotten there.
I guess I shouldn't assume that he'll break the record though.
Drugs in sport these days is pathetic.
Dunno if you hear over there about Australia's "holier than thou" stance on drugs. Every games that we go to, we accuse everyone else of cheating.
Then we find out that our own athletes have been blood doping, using substance A or B becasue it's legal, or were slipped a banned substance "by accident" by their coach or Mother.
Duuno how you can stop it, but maybe in the pro sports, just let them go and do whatever they reckon that they need to.
Dunno if you hear over there about Australia's "holier than thou" stance on drugs. Every games that we go to, we accuse everyone else of cheating.
Then we find out that our own athletes have been blood doping, using substance A or B becasue it's legal, or were slipped a banned substance "by accident" by their coach or Mother.
Duuno how you can stop it, but maybe in the pro sports, just let them go and do whatever they reckon that they need to.
I look at Bonds' on-base percentage. Just having massive steroid induced muscles doesn't mean that you can hit for average and put up .400+ OBPs. Just look at Jose Canseco. That guy is so huge he looks unnatural, and while he had good power, he was never able to have great batting averages or OBPs.
Bonds is the opposite: He has put up OBPs of over 400 every year since 1990, with the exception of '99, when it was .389, which is still quite good. He has never had a below average season, and has played all-star caliber baseball since his 4th season in the show. Bonds' homer totals may be inflated by steroids, but he's still a great hitter. Check out his stats on ESPN.com.
Bonds is the opposite: He has put up OBPs of over 400 every year since 1990, with the exception of '99, when it was .389, which is still quite good. He has never had a below average season, and has played all-star caliber baseball since his 4th season in the show. Bonds' homer totals may be inflated by steroids, but he's still a great hitter. Check out his stats on ESPN.com.
Pro Sports=Who Cares (for me). I stopped watching them all years ago.
Pro sports are a joke. First off Aarons records should never be compared to Ruth's. Ruth did it with inferior equipment. If Aaron played with the same equipment as Ruth, he would have never hit even half the HR's he did. Remember back a few years ago when baseball was lagging in the ratings. What did they do? They livened the ball. Now anyone hitting the ball has a better chance of hitting a HR. Bond's record should not be looked down upon because of steroids. Does the league have a ban on them? Does the league test?
There was a big deal about Andro when McGuire got caught with it. Andro was not illegal and could be bought over the counter.
I know all of you are going to say, "but steroids are illegal". Well, lets look at basketball. Marijuana is illegal. If the league tested for it, it might have enough players for 2 teams left. Ricky Williams admits to using it and yet he has never been busted.
I hate pro sports except NASCAR.
There was a big deal about Andro when McGuire got caught with it. Andro was not illegal and could be bought over the counter.
I know all of you are going to say, "but steroids are illegal". Well, lets look at basketball. Marijuana is illegal. If the league tested for it, it might have enough players for 2 teams left. Ricky Williams admits to using it and yet he has never been busted.
I hate pro sports except NASCAR.
... and the sun may be a little hot.
No matter how you look at it, the Bonds legacy is tarnished and the game of baseball has a huge black eye. The owners and players union have not taken this problem seriously and now they have reaped what they sowed.
Oh and I forgot to add. Bonds will make the Hall of Fame, but Rose can't. That's Bullcrap.
Another sad example was Ben Johnson in the Olympics. His before and after pictures were amazing. I told my wife when I looked at him before the race and said he was on steriods. No matter what MLB does about the problems the real issue will be the side affects on all of these abusers. Barry Bonds and Marion Jones can deny all they want but they had better find a good doctor to determine what future health problems they are going to develop. Before I retired the stuff Mark McGuire was taking, Andro, was popular at the weight room. Once a guy was working out and his spotter noticed that his tricep was about to explode from working out. They took him to the hospital and all of the andro was not processing out of his system and his arm was about to explode. His liver did not process the stuff fast enough and it was just waiting to explode. The military banned the Andro after that. The governor of California admitted that he used steriods years ago but he is not talking about them much now.
Getting less attention and went undetected, but look into the career of sprinter Alan Wells who won gold at the Moscow Olympics. A back of the pack runner who went from skinny kid to Godzilla over one summer. Sports at that time treated steroids about as seriously as baseball does today - that is to say, out of sight and out of mind.
When Ben Johnson was caught cheating, they got serious. The same will happen with baseball now that the lid has blown off.
It wasn't illegal to use them as far as baseball was concerned for much of Bonds' career. Tough. For much of Babe Ruth's career, alcohol was illegal but that didn't stop him.
Which begs the question, how good would Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle have been if they had stayed away from women, the evil drink, worked out, and taken 'roids?
I'd be more interested in prosecuting the illegal distribution of prescription drugs, which is the bottom line here, than in baseball's rules and records.
Thinking of my Phil Hartman SNL video where he comes out as a Russian weightlifter in the All-Drug Olympics, lifts the barbell, and his arms fall off with blood spurting out of his shoulders.
"Oh my! He's ripped his arms off! That's gotta hurt."
Which begs the question, how good would Babe Ruth and Mickey Mantle have been if they had stayed away from women, the evil drink, worked out, and taken 'roids?
I'd be more interested in prosecuting the illegal distribution of prescription drugs, which is the bottom line here, than in baseball's rules and records.
Thinking of my Phil Hartman SNL video where he comes out as a Russian weightlifter in the All-Drug Olympics, lifts the barbell, and his arms fall off with blood spurting out of his shoulders.
"Oh my! He's ripped his arms off! That's gotta hurt."
Mystic "No matter what if anything is done about Barry Bonds and no matter what he achieves in his career, there will always be questions about whether to count his records or not. Even if nothing is done about him he has destroyed his career. Questions about whether to accept his records or not will never stop following him. He could crush the records of Babe Ruth totally and leave Ruth's records far in the dust, and it will not matter. There will always be somebody saying, 'Yeah, but can his records really be counted?'
Gotta agree with that.
"Oh and I forgot to add. Bonds will make the Hall of Fame, but Rose can't. That's Bullcrap."
Maybe not gotta be voted in.
gmayer"If Aaron played with the same equipment as Ruth, he would have never hit even half the HR's he did. Remember back a few years ago when baseball was lagging in the ratings. What did they do? They livened the ball. Now anyone hitting the ball has a better chance of hitting a HR. Bond's record should not be looked down upon because of steroids. "
Ruth also had the anvantage of not having releif pitchers. One of the reasons Ruth was great was because he outhomered whole teams. I think one year he out homered the league.
The point I think is that steroids are enhancing ( cheating) they allow a player to perform better than their natural ability vs. the athlete that doesn't. The 73 homers ought to be thrown out.All Bonds jerseys from here on out should have on the back Bonds*. The Sosa Mcguire thing in 98, I Think, is tainted. The olympics is a great example ,they run faster with roids. It is unnatural,unfair and cheating. The essence of sport is to compete on a level playing field to the best of your ability. Not to the best of your ability with enhanced unnatural substances which help you perform above your God given talent.
Oh yea Ruth and Mantle may have done alcohol womanized etc. Ricky Williams smoked dope. These are de-enhancing substances. Different ballgame. To compare is ludicrous.
Bonds and the others CHEATED. Period.
Gotta agree with that.
"Oh and I forgot to add. Bonds will make the Hall of Fame, but Rose can't. That's Bullcrap."
Maybe not gotta be voted in.
gmayer"If Aaron played with the same equipment as Ruth, he would have never hit even half the HR's he did. Remember back a few years ago when baseball was lagging in the ratings. What did they do? They livened the ball. Now anyone hitting the ball has a better chance of hitting a HR. Bond's record should not be looked down upon because of steroids. "
Ruth also had the anvantage of not having releif pitchers. One of the reasons Ruth was great was because he outhomered whole teams. I think one year he out homered the league.
The point I think is that steroids are enhancing ( cheating) they allow a player to perform better than their natural ability vs. the athlete that doesn't. The 73 homers ought to be thrown out.All Bonds jerseys from here on out should have on the back Bonds*. The Sosa Mcguire thing in 98, I Think, is tainted. The olympics is a great example ,they run faster with roids. It is unnatural,unfair and cheating. The essence of sport is to compete on a level playing field to the best of your ability. Not to the best of your ability with enhanced unnatural substances which help you perform above your God given talent.
Oh yea Ruth and Mantle may have done alcohol womanized etc. Ricky Williams smoked dope. These are de-enhancing substances. Different ballgame. To compare is ludicrous.
Bonds and the others CHEATED. Period.
These current "enhanced" players get to Aug. + Sept. feeling ALOT better than the guys who played decades ago, By ARTIFICIAL means.....
thats cheating. Simple as that.....Bonds, McGuire, Giambi, Sosa.....********************************
thats cheating. Simple as that.....Bonds, McGuire, Giambi, Sosa.....********************************
well, since baseball turned a blind eye to steroids, everyone was essentially on a level playing field.
you could take steroids or not. you could lift weights or not. you could stay out late or not.
trying to test for this and keep ahead of the drug designers is futile.
personally, i don't care if these guys destroy themselves or not. since they will always be one step ahead of the testers, i say legalize it and just have a little note on the program telling what everyone's on. team doctors can administer it, and when your testicles drop off or your liver rejects your body, no one will be surprised.
i don't believe people will stop ingesting chemicals for either physical advantage, social status, or mental relaxation.
you could take steroids or not. you could lift weights or not. you could stay out late or not.
trying to test for this and keep ahead of the drug designers is futile.
personally, i don't care if these guys destroy themselves or not. since they will always be one step ahead of the testers, i say legalize it and just have a little note on the program telling what everyone's on. team doctors can administer it, and when your testicles drop off or your liver rejects your body, no one will be surprised.
i don't believe people will stop ingesting chemicals for either physical advantage, social status, or mental relaxation.
You know what I say let them use performance enhancers!! They are paid to perform not be role models or moral leaders. I think that smokeing and drinking alchol are far worse then the small number of athletes that abuse illegal performance enhancers! I think that aborting a baby is far worse. I think that kids starveing to death in the USA every day is far more serious.I would never take a persons right to smoke or drink away even though far more deaths are caused by them any perfomance enhancers ever used. A lot of athletes from H.S. on up use some form of performance enhancer. It might be legal today and illegal tomorrow.
Moraly I object to useing any perfomance enhancer that is not listed as a food or food supplement. I especialy object to young men and women useing any athletic enhancers.
Steroids used properly and medicaly supervised are not that dangerious. The problem is that most people that use them have self esteem issues and the positive side effects become an artifical esteem booster. The other problem is that most top notch athletes have some obsesive compulshion disorders! This leads to the if a little bit is good then a lot must be even better idea.
I never used steroids even when they were cheap and available due to principals. I felt any victory or accomplishment while on them was a hollow one! I knew people that took used them. Some used them smartly and some abused them. The differences between the two is drastic.
Today some people take as much as 400 times the prescription doseage and will stack multiple steroids together. Different steroids have different affects on physiology.
The DEA has put Steroids in the same catagory as cocaine. SO they have effectively removed almost any chance of anyone useing their doctor to help monitor their use. They are still flooding into the country. My little YMCA in a sleepy little city of less then 20,000 has steriods available.
I spent so much time around steroid users in the 1980's and 1990's that I can spot a guy or gal on them with just one look.Most people can not tell just buy looking.
Most pro-governing bodies have enemic drug testing! They really do not want to catch anyone if they can help it. This is way often the first the public hears about drugs and athletes is when they get busted for sex charges or assualt charges. The other time is when a book comes out or you get a whistle blower!
Moraly I object to useing any perfomance enhancer that is not listed as a food or food supplement. I especialy object to young men and women useing any athletic enhancers.
Steroids used properly and medicaly supervised are not that dangerious. The problem is that most people that use them have self esteem issues and the positive side effects become an artifical esteem booster. The other problem is that most top notch athletes have some obsesive compulshion disorders! This leads to the if a little bit is good then a lot must be even better idea.
I never used steroids even when they were cheap and available due to principals. I felt any victory or accomplishment while on them was a hollow one! I knew people that took used them. Some used them smartly and some abused them. The differences between the two is drastic.
Today some people take as much as 400 times the prescription doseage and will stack multiple steroids together. Different steroids have different affects on physiology.
The DEA has put Steroids in the same catagory as cocaine. SO they have effectively removed almost any chance of anyone useing their doctor to help monitor their use. They are still flooding into the country. My little YMCA in a sleepy little city of less then 20,000 has steriods available.
I spent so much time around steroid users in the 1980's and 1990's that I can spot a guy or gal on them with just one look.Most people can not tell just buy looking.
Most pro-governing bodies have enemic drug testing! They really do not want to catch anyone if they can help it. This is way often the first the public hears about drugs and athletes is when they get busted for sex charges or assualt charges. The other time is when a book comes out or you get a whistle blower!
yes, i have quite the knack for stating the obvious.quote:
Originally posted by salesrep:
"i don't believe people will stop ingesting chemicals for either physical advantage, social status, or mental relaxation."
I'd say that's been proven for decades.
i'm with johnbrowning. let it go. there's so much really bad stuff going on that this seems kind of silly to get worked up over. certainly no one can be surprised by this?!
purity in sports or athletics only exists in some nostalgic, romanticized alternative reality.
i love watching the packers or the boilers or red sox, but **** , it's just sports.
(i drink beer while i watch - that makes teams look better than they really are. is that an enhancement?
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