Stellantis offering voluntary buyouts

[leadcounsel]

Lol...do you feel better? Did you get it all out of your system? No one has ever mentioned BLM to me and we've never discussed it in any class. It's a well-respected business school...

No hard feelings meant or received from your PM. I'm unemotional on this. But no, people who understand economics have little regard for the mindrot wokeness or institutions that preach it. At this point these legacy institutions are hemorrhaging enrollment numbers, as the most qualified candidates stop attending.

Men, who have invented almost everything important and built this nation, have been demonized far too long and are dis-enrolling in these institutions at radical rates. Yet men, the most qualified candidates in almost every field, are leaving. Gee, I wonder why? Perhaps, DEI nonsense has something to do with it? Head scratcher. Maybe one of the DEI lecture series can explain it.

Did your econ class discuss ANY topical problems, of which there are ample, and analysis of how it was caused or how to fix it? Like men dropping out of colleges? Like any of the woke/DEI policies being based in racism and injecting less qualified people into jobs for which they are unqualified? Or the debt causes and how to fix it? Or inflation, supply/demand, global economic policies that work or don't? Or the massive layoffs? Why and now to fix?

 

[JeffKeryk]

There is a way to deal with debt: one does not cut taxes at every opportunity and keep spending same amount.

You're just being logical again. Doing that dumb ol' arithmetic...

 

[PWMDMD]

No hard feelings meant or received from your PM. I'm unemotional on this. But no, people who understand economics have little regard for the mindrot wokeness or institutions that preach it. At this point these legacy institutions are hemorrhaging enrollment numbers, as the most qualified candidates stop attending.

Men, who have invented almost everything important and built this nation, have been demonized far too long and are dis-enrolling in these institutions at radical rates. Yet men, the most qualified candidates in almost every field, are leaving. Gee, I wonder why? Perhaps, DEI nonsense has something to do with it? Head scratcher. Maybe one of the DEI lecture series can explain it.

Did your econ class discuss ANY topical problems, of which there are ample, and analysis of how it was caused or how to fix it? Like men dropping out of colleges? Like any of the woke/DEI policies being based in racism and injecting less qualified people into jobs for which they are unqualified? Or the debt causes and how to fix it? Or inflation, supply/demand, global economic policies that work or don't? Or the massive layoffs? Why and now to fix?

So...I hate to tell you this but there is no wokeness in my program...ZERO.

Intro to accounting talked about accounting - the accounting equation, P&Ls, income statements, etc. Intro to finance talked about finance - federal reserve system, treasury, yield curves, etc. Stats talked about stats. Intro to data management talked about data management. I've also taken some personal finance courses and we just talked about personal finance. The examples given in class and assignments aren't woke. There are no extracurricular discussions about woke topics. It has been pretty standard teaching where profs stay on topic and no one is freely sharing their personal opinions wokeness.

 

[fdcg27]

Stellantis offering voluntary buyouts to 33,500 US employees

Chrysler parent Stellantis NV said Wednesday it is offering voluntary exit packages to 33,500 U.S. employees as it looks to streamline operations.

www.reuters.com

This thread has gone way off track, but that's BITOG.
I'll add a little bit of economic reality to it, since the doom and gloomers seem to think that merely repeating themselves somehow strengthens their arguments.
How many nations run a trade surplus with the US?
Maybe almost all of them with whom we have any significant trade.
How do we pay for these imports?
With dollars.
Where does this surplus of dollars in foreign markets go?
Well, it doesn't go under Chinese mattresses.
It goes into financial assets and these are heavily weighted toward US sovereign debt.
The USD remains the world's reserve currency and is the currency in which most third party nation trades in goods and services are settled.
For those who forecast the imminent demise of the dollar, they should ask themselves that if not the USD, then what?
Crypto? Don't make everyone laugh.

 

[leadcounsel]

So...I hate to tell you this but there is no wokeness in my program...ZERO.

Intro to accounting talked about accounting - the accounting equation, P&Ls, income statements, etc. Intro to finance talked about finance - federal reserve system, treasury, yield curves, etc. Stats talked about stats. Intro to data management talked about data management. I've also taken some personal finance courses and we just talked about personal finance. The examples given in class and assignments aren't woke. There are no extracurricular discussions about woke topics. It has been pretty standard teaching where profs stay on topic.

And yet this program taught you:

We only need to pay the debt service, which we can do, and while the $30T will be repaid in some form or another over the coming years, it will be repaid at the percentage of a growing and larger GDP.

You'll never get out of debt, paying just the interest. This is beneath Econ 101. So fundamental, I'm surprised to even have to type it.

my real point is we aren't at the hopeless prognosis point, yet, and we can still turn this around.

My point is IF WE CAN RESTRAIN ourselves from more outrageous spending it isn't that hard to get out of our current trouble.

 

[leadcounsel]

How many nations run a trade surplus with the US?
Maybe almost all of them with whom we have any significant trade.
How do we pay for these imports?
With dollars.
Where does this surplus of dollars in foreign markets go?
Well, it doesn't go under Chinese mattresses.
It goes into financial assets and these are heavily weighted toward US sovereign debt.
The USD remains the world's reserve currency and is the currency in which most third party nation trades in goods and services are settled.
For those who forecast the imminent demise of the dollar, they should ask themselves that if not the USD, then what?
Crypto? Don't make everyone laugh.

For around 5+ decades the US dollar was the global reserve currency, known as the petro dollar. Much like the Dutch and the British in eras past, abuses in this fiat currency, are pushing nations to dump it as the global reserve currency. That will seriously harm our 1st world wealth, status, and influence. Sorry if you're just learning this absolutely true fact. I could link 1,000 articles current events. About 4,000,000,000 people dumping the dollar near term. It's already in motion.

The BRICS nations (comprising around 15 nations or so, about half the globe by population, and many major producers of energy, food, wealth, manufacturing, and largest militaries) are now trading in their own currencies. Russia has gone to a gold-backed Ruble. Russia and China are trading energy and food for technology and arms. Iraq and Saudi Arabia and Iraq are trading oil to China and accepting Yeun. And on and on. Nations are ending their trade in dollars due to US abuses of using dollars. Iran just jacked a 2nd western backed oil tanker over there... with impunity.

These nations are working toward a hybrid currency, might be a crypto, might be gold backed, it's unclear.

And FYI the US is also planning to replace the dollar incrementally and is rolling out a "Central Digital Reserve Currency," CBDC. Start next month last I heard. Several major banks involved in the test rollout. A type of crypto currency. So mock it all if you want but truly seems you're too uniformed to carry on this discussion.

Dispute any of this but do some research first as it's all accurate.

 

[PWMDMD]

And yet this program taught you:


You'll never get out of debt, paying just the interest. This is beneath Econ 101. So fundamental, I'm surprised to even have to type it.

So they're woke because a prof presented mathematical evidence that with spending cuts the debt can be managed over time so long as we slow spending and increase GDP? Or are they woke because they're not teaching doom and gloom and telling is it all already hopeless? You and I aren't far off here - we both think we need to cut spending and increase income. The only difference is I think we can do it over time - do we really have a choice? If we can't pay it down quickly then isn't the only choice paying it down slowly? Who knows maybe in Econ 102 they cover the hopeless part.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I have posted before that "The Wealth of Nations" is a profoundly influential work in the study of economics.

And yes, Smith did consider government's role in the needs of people that a free market was not equipped or appropriate for.

 

[PWMDMD]

I have posted before that "The Wealth of Nations" is a profoundly influential work in the study of economics.

And yes, Smith did consider government's role in the needs of people that a free market was not equipped or appropriate for.

Interesting but not easy to get through but listened to it on Audible.

 

[fdcg27]

For around 5+ decades the US dollar was the global reserve currency, known as the petro dollar. Much like the Dutch and the British in eras past, abuses in this fiat currency, are pushing nations to dump it as the global reserve currency. That will seriously harm our 1st world wealth, status, and influence. Sorry if you're just learning this absolutely true fact. I could link 1,000 articles current events. About 4,000,000,000 people dumping the dollar near term. It's already in motion.

The BRICS nations (comprising around 15 nations or so, about half the globe by population, and many major producers of energy, food, wealth, manufacturing, and largest militaries) are now trading in their own currencies. Russia has gone to a gold-backed Ruble. Russia and China are trading energy and food for technology and arms. Iraq and Saudi Arabia and Iraq are trading oil to China and accepting Yeun. And on and on. Nations are ending their trade in dollars due to US abuses of using dollars. Iran just jacked a 2nd western backed oil tanker over there... with impunity.

These nations are working toward a hybrid currency, might be a crypto, might be gold backed, it's unclear.

And FYI the US is also planning to replace the dollar incrementally and is rolling out a "Central Digital Reserve Currency," CBDC. Start next month last I heard. Several major banks involved in the test rollout. A type of crypto currency. So mock it all if you want but truly seems you're too uniformed to carry on this discussion.

Dispute any of this but do some research first as it's all accurate.

Merely calling others "too uniformed" while offering nothing more than that with no authoritative sources for what you claim isn't much of an argument in support of your claims.
One of is indeed uninformed and it may not be me.

 

[leadcounsel]

So they're woke because a prof presented mathematical evidence that with spending cuts the debt can be managed over time so long as we slow spending and increase GDP? Or are they woke because they're not teaching doom and gloom and telling is it all already hopeless? You and I aren't far off here - we both think we need to cut spending and increase income. The only difference is I think we can do it over time - do we really have a choice? If we can't pay it down quickly then isn't the only choice paying it down slowly? Who knows maybe in Econ 102 they cover the hopeless part.

A day 1 class for ECON 101 would be to have students look at this debt clock and understand it. Every category. I encourage you to spend time reviewing it. Write out these numbers, watch them.

There's not enough money to repay these debts.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Would you loan money to someone or keep lending and doing business with an insolvent person? Simple yes or no.

 

[PimTac]

A day 1 class for ECON 101 would be to have students look at this debt clock and understand it. Every category. I encourage you to spend time reviewing it. Write out these numbers, watch them.

There's not enough money to repay these debts.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Would you loan money to someone or keep lending and doing business with an insolvent person? Simple yes or no.

To add insult to injury the interest payments on the debt are a majority of expenditures now as higher interest rates have jacked those payments up.

So we are borrowing money to pay the interest on money that we borrowed previously.

 

[leadcounsel]

Merely calling others "too uniformed" while offering nothing more than that with no authoritative sources for what you claim isn't much of an argument in support of your claims.
One of is indeed uninformed and it may not be me.

You're totally right.

Let's just ignore 1/2 the world dumping the dollar, global wars kicking off in 3 fronts or more, the 2nd largest bank collapse in US history occurred this week, inflation at highs not seen since at least the 1970s, massive supply chain problems in many industries, layoffs not seen since possibly 15 years ago during the LAST economic crisis, and so forth.

You mock a "crypto currency," yet that's literally what the US is apparently moving toward, the CBDC (a crypto hybrid, virtual digital currency that exists only on computers). And you apparently don't know this.

 

[PWMDMD]

A day 1 class for ECON 101 would be to have students look at this debt clock and understand it. Every category. I encourage you to spend time reviewing it. Write out these numbers, watch them.

There's not enough money to repay these debts.

https://www.usdebtclock.org/

Would you loan money to someone or keep lending and doing business with an insolvent person? Simple yes or no.

You keep proving my point...there isn't enough money to repay the entire debt NOW. That why shrinking the debt as a smaller and smaller percentage of GDP over time makes sense. There is compelling mathematical evidence that assuming an average increase in GDP and over time and reasonable spending cuts we can still shrink debt as a percentage of GDP to acceptable levels. Yes, the world can go to hell and the dollar can get dumped and WW3 can happen. All this showed was that mathematically is can still be managed. There will come a point when it can not but this showed we're not quite there yet.

 

[fdcg27]

You're totally right.

Let's just ignore 1/2 the world dumping the dollar, global wars kicking off in 3 fronts or more, the 2nd largest bank collapse in US history occurred this week, inflation at highs not seen since at least the 1970s, massive supply chain problems in many industries, layoffs not seen since possibly 15 years ago during the LAST economic crisis, and so forth.

You mock a "crypto currency," yet that's literally what the US is apparently moving toward, the CBDC (a crypto hybrid, virtual digital currency that exists only on computers). And you apparently don't know this.

Once again, give us some authoritative sources for these claims.
What I see based upon my reading of WSJ and The Economist, both of which we subscribe to, is nothing close to the dire situation you proclaim to be in progress.
Whatever are you talking about with this three front or more war?
Why do you harp on about a bank which was acquired by another larger bank and only because it had a serious timing mismatch between its assets and its liabilities, which to a bank are its deposits?
Of what layoffs do you speak?
Unemployment remains at historically low levels.
Supply chain problems are also nothing new and calling them "massive" does not change that.
Governments may try to take over crypto, probably a good thing since crypto now acts more like a commodity than a currency.

 

[leadcounsel]

You keep proving my point...there isn't enough money to repay the entire debt NOW. That why shrinking the debt as a smaller and smaller percentage of GDP over time makes sense. There is compelling mathematical evidence that assuming an average increase in GDP and over time and reasonable spending cuts we can still shrink debt as a percentage of GDP to acceptable levels. Yes, the world can go to hell and the dollar can get dumped and WW3 can happen. All this showed was that mathematically is can still be managed. There will come a point when it can not but this showed we're not quite there yet.

No it's not manageable. If it were manageable, we'd have managed it and paid it down. The opposite occurred.

Look at the history of our debt.
1980. Less than $1 trillion.
2000. $4 trillion
2010. $9 trillion
2020. $19 trillion
2023. $32 trillion
2030. $50 trillion projected

Growing now at about $3 trillion per year. Interest payments about $2 billion daily.


1. We are adding the following expenditures as the top three annually.

A: $1.5 Trillion medicaid/medicare spending on a growing aging population. This metric will get worse with our aging population. WE are top-heavy with more retiring than are young workers.

B: $1.2 Trillion social security. Set to be bankrupt this decade, again same age top heavy problem.

C: $800 Billion military spending. This grows and will continue to grow with escalating tensions with two superpowers Russia and China, who are peer military forces.

D: $600 Billion paying interest to service the growing debt.

That's $4 trillion budget alone. Taking care of old/sick people, paying for military defense, and paying interest. Reliable estimates point to a $50 TRILLION debt by 2030. Meanwhile our population is aging and top heavy. Who is going to work to pay this? Where do we make these so-called cuts? With people out of work who is going to pay this debt down? Social welfare spending goes up in crisis. Military spending goes up during wars.

Unfunded liabilities are in the $175 TRILLION range.

It's a delusion to think this is not a death spiral. Just look at all the metrics, the point of this thread. Businesses slashing jobs, and directly related, FED has doubled interest rates in 12 months to curb inflation which is killing us on debt payments, and this has caused a banking failure possibly the worst in history going on now, massive credit crunch, stock market has fallen drastically this year, and so forth. How someone discussing economics can mis-interpret this is bewildering.

 

[leadcounsel]

Once again, give us some authoritative sources for these claims.
What I see based upon my reading of WSJ and The Economist, both of which we subscribe to, is nothing close to the dire situation you proclaim to be in progress.
Whatever are you talking about with this three front or more war?
Why do you harp on about a bank which was acquired by another larger bank and only because it had a serious timing mismatch between its assets and its liabilities, which to a bank are its deposits?
Of what layoffs do you speak?
Unemployment remains at historically low levels.
Supply chain problems are also nothing new and calling them "massive" does not change that.
Governments may try to take over crypto, probably a good thing since crypto now acts more like a commodity than a currency.

1. Authorities? "The Economist" and the "WSJ" Aren't these the dying print media no serious person bothers with anymore? You're being misled by MSM. That has lied to you about everything and failed to predict anything important for 20 years.

2. 3-front war. Let's see. We are in a indirect arguably direct kinetic war against Russia. We are on the brink of direct war with China. And N. Korea is dangerously close to kicking off a direct war. Let's see, Iran has seized two western backed oil tankers by force and is supplying arms against Ukraine to Russia.... That's at least 3 or more, not counting the economic war on the horizon. Sorry your WSJ and Economist haven't informed you of these major events.

3. Banking. We are in the throws of the largest bank insolvencies and failures since at least 2008, possibly in our lifetimes. Your WSJ and Economists again fail you.

4. Layoffs. Well this thread points to 33,500 at Dodge. I've linked to the CNN tally with dozens of major companies. Do you read or just comment without any information?

5. Unemployment numbers, as any serious person knows, like inflation, are totally manipulated in favor of the government with fake or misleading data/numbers. Again your WSJ and Economist, totally failing you.

6. You're uniformed about CBDC, clearly. I thought you had WSJ and Economist??

7. Supply chains breaks have been "massive." Hundreds of major issues from fertilizer to auto parts stalling production by years in some cases, building materials like lumber tripled in price, and so forth.

I've answered questions even a person with a rudimentary grasp of economics should know, as politely as possible.

 

[MSCH]

my brother got bought out of his job with Mopar the last time the company crapped out in 2008. He was the Parts Warehouse Manager in Port Huron Mi.. he did well from that buyout.

FWIW my BIL was a long term engineering employee of GM, he survived the corporate bankruptcy and all that stuff, but since the bankruptcy his pension has switched around to 4 different plans.

 

[PWMDMD]

No it's not manageable. If it were manageable, we'd have managed it and paid it down. The opposite occurred.

Look at the history of our debt.
1980. Less than $1 trillion.
2000. $4 trillion
2010. $9 trillion
2020. $19 trillion
2023. $32 trillion
2030. $50 trillion projected

Growing now at about $3 trillion per year. Interest payments about $2 billion daily.


1. We are adding the following expenditures as the top three annually.

A: $1.5 Trillion medicaid/medicare spending on a growing aging population. This metric will get worse with our aging population. WE are top-heavy with more retiring than are young workers.

B: $1.2 Trillion social security. Set to be bankrupt this decade, again same age top heavy problem.

C: $800 Billion military spending. This grows and will continue to grow with escalating tensions with two superpowers Russia and China, who are peer military forces.

D: $600 Billion paying interest to service the growing debt.

That's $4 trillion budget alone. Taking care of old/sick people, paying for military defense, and paying interest. Reliable estimates point to a $50 TRILLION debt by 2030. Meanwhile our population is aging and top heavy. Who is going to work to pay this? Where do we make these so-called cuts? With people out of work who is going to pay this debt down? Social welfare spending goes up in crisis. Military spending goes up during wars.

Unfunded liabilities are in the $175 TRILLION range.

It's a delusion to think this is not a death spiral. Just look at all the metrics, the point of this thread. Businesses slashing jobs, and directly related, FED has doubled interest rates in 12 months to curb inflation which is killing us on debt payments, and this has caused a banking failure possibly the worst in history going on now, massive credit crunch, stock market has fallen drastically this year, and so forth. How someone discussing economics can mis-interpret this is bewildering.

You are a ray of sunshine!

 

[userfriendly]

I thought that inflation reduced debt.
Let's say I go out and buy a new $100,000 pickup truck with a 10 year loan at 5% interest.
Inflation is running at 5%/year.
For easy math, I'm earning $100,000 now.
Every year I get a 5% raise in pay, compounded over the next 10 years.
My truck payment will seem like a lot for the first 5 years, not so much for the last 5 years.
Will the truck be worth anything in 10 years?
Probably not, but it's a consumable not an investment.

Same goes for that new bridge that your government is building with borrowed money.
Get it built and make the interest payments.
If they wait until the money is in hand, the bridge would have to wait another 10 years and will cost 60% more.
IMO, governments have to use borrowed money for infrastructure.