Stellantis offering voluntary buyouts

[billt460]

I'll let the faculty at the UMass Amherst Isenberg School of Management know billt460 from BITOG disagrees with their assessment of the national debt and that their PhDs, MBAs, and decades of research and writing about the topic are all meaningless and can be replaced with "common sense."

You don't have to replace anything. Just add common sense where there is none. And to think the national debt, which has only grown, will be paid off in years to come, completely lacks any.

And all of this coming from Boston..... Home of the "Big Dig"... And numerous other financial dog and pony shows. Economics 101? Don't make me laugh.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Some form of monetize the debt. The problem is government "trust funds" such as Social Security hold a fair bit of that debt. What would monetizing the debt do to such "trust funds?"

Countries still go BK today, or at least flirt with it until the World Bank props them up.

Some current candidates flirting with it are Argentina and Lebanon. Perhaps Turkey as well. I'm sure there are more, but these are the ones can come to mind at the moment.

Ya. The crazy thing about SS is that from a legislative perspective it is comprised for two separate programs. The first part is the SS withholdings are legally a constructed as tax rather than a contribution. So nobody has a "balance" in the traditional sense.

 

[PWMDMD]

You don't have to replace anything. Just add common sense where there is none. And to think the national debt, which has only grown, will be paid off in years to come, completely lacks any.

WHERE DID ANYONE CLAIM IT WILL BE PAID OFF? I'M SAYING THE OPPOSITE! It never gets paid off and it never has to and all that needs to happen for the US to be sustainable is for debt spending to go up less than GDP over time. That's my entire point!

 

[billt460]

WHERE DID ANYONE CLAIM IT WILL BE PAID OFF? I'M SAYING THE OPPOSITE! It never gets paid off and it never has to and all that needs to happen for the US to be sustainable is for debt spending to go up less than GDP over time. That's my entire point!

Not "anyone", YOU. Read your own post #80.

"and while the $30T will be repaid in some form or another over the coming years, it will be repaid at the percentage of a growing and larger GDP."

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Bastiat and the Austrian School of Economics FTW! (Yes, I know he was French. He just didn't know his ideas would be the precursor to the Austrian School of Economic Theory.)

Austrian School came from Carl Menger and just like Bastiat he was probably also influenced by Adam Smith. The current school (Mises) is full of conspiracy anarchocapitalist Rothbard fantasyland white supremacists fanboiys who live in an alternate reality.

 

[PWMDMD]

Not "anyone", YOU. Read your own post #80.

"and while the $30T will be repaid in some form or another over the coming years, it will be repaid at the percentage of a growing and larger GDP."

Do we hold the principal and yield hostage? Are you claiming we will default? DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WORKS? Some people will wait for their treasuries to mature and they will be paid the principal plus yield - THIS IS DEBT SERVICE - NOT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF NATIONAL DEBT IS DUE, JUST WHAT HAS MATURED. Eventually, EVERYTHING will mature over time. Some people will take their money and run and some will take their money and buy NEW debt. At that point, the OLD debt service is paid off and new debt has been issued. All the while ADDITIONAL NEW DEBT will be issued above and beyond what has been paid off as part of debt service and so over time debt still increases. Holy crap dude...

 

[billt460]

Do we hold the principal and yield hostage? Are you claiming we will default? DO YOU UNDERSTAND HOW THIS WORKS? Some people will wait for their treasuries to mature and they will be paid the principal plus yield - THIS IS DEBT SERVICE - NOT THE ENTIRE AMOUNT OF NATIONAL DEBT IS DUE, JUST WHAT HAS MATURED. Eventually, EVERYTHING will mature. Some people will take their money and run and some will take their money and buy NEW debt. At that point, the OLD debt is paid off. Holy crap dude....

Holy crap is right.... "Dude". Nevermind the caps. You don't even know what you're typing.

 

[PWMDMD]

Holy crap is right.... "Dude". Nevermind the caps. You don't even know what you're typing.

Please, point it out for me. Please point to what I've written that is not 100% accurate and correct?

 

[leadcounsel]

Debt isn't debt. Govt debt is sovereign debt payable in currency of that sovereign. Countries in the past which went into BK did so because they were on some version of a gold standard which doesn't exist today. The USG could pay off total outstanding debts tomorrow if it wanted to and then tax much of that money out of the system

That would be impossible. Have you looked at the debt clock? It's an amount that is not realistically repayable. Government would have to essentially seize around 25% of all US private assets to repay current debts. If it seized all private assets it would still not be able to pay forecast unfunded liabilities.

And, the instant anyone in wealth/power got word of this scheme, they would move all their assets elsewhere. So not only is there insufficient actual assets, it's impractical to impossible to even attempt such a scam. War, bloodshed, etc. and our collapse would result.

Our debts are unpayable, and our government is clearly moving toward a designed collapse of the dollar to wipe them out. The world is onto this scam. The world, now including the UAE, is rapidly dumping dollars.

Not making this up. Do your homework. The dollar is dying fast. Nobody wants it anymore.

This week the 2nd largest bank failure in US history, First Republic Bank, collapsed. I believe the total numbers of banks at risk or in default is the largest in history right now. Trillions of dollars. Larger than 2001, 2008....

Open your eyes.

 

[billt460]

Please, point it out for me. Please point to what I've written that is not 100% accurate and correct?

This countries debt has tripled in just the last 14 years. We're not buying down anything. We're sinking in financial quicksand. Faster and faster.

 

[leadcounsel]

No, based on the current GDP we could not repay the entire debt today but thankfully we don't have to because that's not how it works. We only need to pay the debt service, which we can do, and while the $30T will be repaid in some form or another over the coming years, it will be repaid at the percentage of a growing and larger GDP.

This is literally from Economics 101, which I just finished, and this is what we talked about. Again, not defending overspending but the national debt does not work like personal and business debt.

I'm sorry but you simply don't understand economics. I'm an economist. Or at least, I have nearly a minor in it, and also an MBA (heavy with economics studies), and also run a business. I mean no offense but all the data is against your position.

HALF of the globe is dropping the dollar. Do you suppose that's just an arbitrary move, or is there more to it? Do you realize the US is only 5% of the global population, at 350 Million people. We're talking about 4 BILLION people dropping the petro-dollar; people/nations in the top energy, military, food, resources, production nations in the world.

The US has debts so large, interest on servicing it is 2nd only to military spending (which is in large part to enforce petro-dollars, prop up the system). Might be 3rd behind social welfare spending, which is just expenses with no return. Top 3 spending is just non-productive spending. Not investment, like farming, or manufacturing investment, etc.. where there is a economic return.

The scams and schemes are coming to an end. The printing of money to pay off debt is the largest ponzi scheme known to man. In 2001, trillions lost. Again in 2008, trillions lost. In 2020, again trillions lost. Or rather, in all of these, just burdens heaped on taxpayers with bailouts and boondoggles. Now happening with greater frequency, with higher stakes. That's 4 major economic collapses, in 2 decades. In 1980, our entire national debt was $900,000,000. GDP to debt was 35% positive. In 2000, national debt was 4 Trillion. By 2010, it was $10 trillion. Now it's $32 trillion, with a negative 25% debt to GDP (we spend far more than we make). It's all an unsustainable house of cards in a death spiral that is not recoverable.

The petro-dollar historically is the reason for our 1st world standard of living and wealth. That is going away. Fast. We won't be irrelevant, but when the globe dumps the dollar, ya'll better brace for impact.

 

[PWMDMD]

This countries debt has tripled in just the last 14 years. We're not buying down anything. We're sinking in financial quicksand. Faster and faster.

You can ADD NEW debt faster than you pay off EXISTING debt. Our debt is "rolling". There is a US treasury debt payment coming due, it represents the principal and interest of US treasuries that have matured as of that payment, and it will be paid. That doesn't stop the sale of new treasuries in excess of that payment which simultaneously allows old mature debt to be paid in full while still adding to the total debt.

 

[Kurtatron]

I'm sorry but you simply don't understand economics. I'm an economist. Or at least, I have nearly a minor in it, and also an MBA (heavy with economics studies), and also run a business. I mean no offense but all the data is against your position.

HALF of the globe is dropping the dollar. Do you suppose that's just an arbitrary move, or is there more to it? Do you realize the US is only 5% of the global population, at 350 Million people. We're talking about 4 BILLION people dropping the petro-dollar; people/nations in the top energy, military, food, resources, production nations in the world.

The US has debts so large, interest on servicing it is 2nd only to military spending (which is in large part to enforce petro-dollars, prop up the system). Might be 3rd behind social welfare spending, which is just expenses with no return. Top 3 spending is just non-productive spending. Not investment, like farming, or manufacturing investment, etc.. where there is a economic return.

The petro-dollar historically is the reason for our 1st world standard of living and wealth. That is going away. Fast. We won't be irrelevant, but when the globe dumps the dollar, ya'll better brace for impact.

I’m no expert in economics or even want to argue my beliefs intensely, but I will state my opinion anyways. I do agree the debt is a big problem. I expect it to cause big economic consequences down the line some day. I don’t know when, but I believe it will.

 

[Kurtatron]

You can ADD NEW debt faster than you pay off EXISTING debt. Our debt is "rolling". There is a US treasury debt payment coming due, it represents the principal and interest of US treasuries that have matured as of that payment, and it will be paid. That doesn't stop the sale of new treasuries in excess of that payment which simultaneously allows old mature debt to be paid in full while still adding to the total debt.

I respectfully disagree. To me, it seems you are assuming the government will have some sort of tapering discipline on the debt. When I see the government debt graph, and it looks almost exponential. I just can’t see the government being responsible enough to tackle the debt as responsibly as you seem to state it.

 

[billt460]

This government has lost any and all financial discipline decades ago. That is assuming they ever had any to begin with.

How they have managed to screw up Social Security so badly, proves this with economic fact.

 

[leadcounsel]

I'll let the faculty at the UMass Amherst Isenberg School of Management know billt460 from BITOG disagrees with their assessment of the national debt and that their PhDs, MBAs, and decades of research and writing about the topic are all meaningless and can be replaced with "common sense."

It's funny you believe that somehow improves your arguments, to claim a woke college in one of the most woke states in the nation, taught you entry level economics.

I'm sorry to inform you but you didn't go to a school on economics, you went to mindrot woke university having little to do with economics.

I have to laugh. You can't make this up. The school of economics at UMASS has a home page. The top articles are:
1. A lecture on: "Does everyone lose from racism?"
2. An apparent actual economics-light article/club.
3. A pro-Black Lives Matter and DEI statement.
"Statement on Racist violence and exclusion"
Black Lives Matter. We declare and affirm this truth in the face of any verbal or material attempt to deny it. The current tragedies and structures of violence, exclusion and exploitation of Black people were made by human actors. They date back to colonial times and slavery but persist to today. Teaching and research in the economics profession have often served to legitimize such structures portraying them as the outcome of the free and fair play of the market. The UMass Economics Department has a long tradition of research dedicated to uncovering structures of oppression, exploitation, exclusion and violence. This tradition must be rethought and adapted to place racial injustice at the center, as a dimension that should not be overlooked."
4. Next we have a workshop on inequality.
5. Next we have a workshop on stratification economics, entirely geared toward a sociology aspect on race and gender nonsense.

Check out this hilarious "economics" course of study at UMass. I wouldn't go there if you paid me. It's a key example of why so many businesses are failing. They have no clue about economics, and are so utterly clueless they can't even identify the most obvious reasons.

https://www.umass.edu/economics/

 

[billt460]

It is literally shocking so few people understand this economics 101 lesson.

That is truly the scary part. How anyone can possibly read normalcy into this entire economic mess is beyond sane thinking.

 

[leadcounsel]

WHERE DID ANYONE CLAIM IT WILL BE PAID OFF? I'M SAYING THE OPPOSITE! It never gets paid off and it never has to and all that needs to happen for the US to be sustainable is for debt spending to go up less than GDP over time. That's my entire point!

Literally why half of the world is saying "bye bye" to the dollar.

Would you loan money to someone you know cannot repay it and has no intention to repay it? Maybe check with the UMass BLM wing of the economics dept.

(FYI, BLM is now under federal investigation and well known to be a complete scam stealing billions from donors.)

This thread...

 

[PWMDMD]

It's funny you believe that somehow improves your arguments, to claim a woke college in one of the most woke states in the nation, taught you entry level economics.

I'm sorry to inform you but you didn't go to a school on economics, you went to mindrot woke university having little to do with economics.

I have to laugh. You can't make this up. The school of economics at UMASS has a home page. The top articles are:
1. A lecture on: "Does everyone lose from racism?"
2. An apparent actual economics-light article/club.
3. A pro-Black Lives Matter and DEI statement.
"Statement on Racist violence and exclusion"
Black Lives Matter. We declare and affirm this truth in the face of any verbal or material attempt to deny it. The current tragedies and structures of violence, exclusion and exploitation of Black people were made by human actors. They date back to colonial times and slavery but persist to today. Teaching and research in the economics profession have often served to legitimize such structures portraying them as the outcome of the free and fair play of the market. The UMass Economics Department has a long tradition of research dedicated to uncovering structures of oppression, exploitation, exclusion and violence. This tradition must be rethought and adapted to place racial injustice at the center, as a dimension that should not be overlooked."
4. Next we have a workshop on inequality.
5. Next we have a workshop on stratification economics, entirely geared toward a sociology aspect on race and gender nonsense.

Check out this hilarious "economics" course of study at UMass. I wouldn't go there if you paid me. It's a key example of why so many businesses are failing. They have no clue about economics, and are so utterly clueless they can't even identify the most obvious reasons.

https://www.umass.edu/economics/

Lol...do you feel better? Did you get it all out of your system? No one has ever mentioned BLM to me and we've never discussed it in any class. It's a well-respected business school...

 

[leadcounsel]

Topic had a macro-econ veer, but bringing this back around to the original topic, the reason hundreds of US businesses are failing and banks collapsing is because there are fundamentally flawed policies and rationale regarding economics, coupled with runaway fraud and corruption in the system. It's a doomed model at this point.

The DEI nonsense injected into the system is certainly a straw on the camels back. People totally unqualified for positions, being hired, at the expense of those who are qualified but overlooked because of not being "diverse enough." Total racism built into the system in the name of social justice. The result is plane crashes, bank failures, train derailments, entire businesses collapsing from within b/c nobody can run an economic model without injecting DEI into the math somehow, etc.

You want an example: The DEI investment and hiring policies on the SVB bank. Of course the "experts" in our (woke) government deny it, but SVB put billions into this nonsense hiring and investing. Are you going to believe these lying liars who lie, like Janet Yellen. Just 45 days ago, declared the banking system is sound.

Don't believe your lying eyes. Trillions of dollars right now being fabricated, shuffled around, as First Republic Bank is the 2nd largest in US history collapsed this week, along with thousands of banks at risk of default right now. These people have compounded the woes due to fundamental lack of any understanding of economics to the point it almost seems intentional to shift wealth, and continue to make gains privatized but losses public subsidies.