State Farm sues Tesla for fire damaged home

[Job]

BC / BS / UHC that my company offered in the past ALL have surcharges if you smoke. Maybe in your workplace it is different, but having these different prices, surcharge, whatever all the same.

They just contract with health providers like Kaiser, Blue Shield etc. Almost all companies are the same, it isn’t my employer alone. I have Blue Shield and Medicare now as I am older. Medicare also has no such smoking surcharges. Like I said smoking is only one of many bad things.
The other thing is you can say you don’t smoke truthfully. It’s up to the time it was asked. They don’t say will you promise to never smoke? I’m not buying it until I see a published rate sheet from a group plan that has smoker rates and non smoker in writing. Lot of talking, easy to settle, but so far, nothing.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

Doubt you have owned the same vehicles - exactly NONE of mine ever did that …

It pretty much happens when you have a floor mat on top of a floor mat, like an Advanced Auto "Chevy Bowtie" thick rubber mat to go over your OE floor mat in your car, so the branded stylized one gets dirty and the one with the car stays "mint."

They CAN and usually do move over to catch an accelerator, same way even larger or loose shoes can sometimes do the same.. that situation is one that is on my "Oh no! Don't do that" list.. and I've always been pretty lax on what I've been prepared to let go behind the wheel. But some things, even I don't do.

As to State Farm suing Tesla.... I can see how maybe it was "bound to happen," and there may have been a time I would have blindly jumped on the anti-Tesla bandwagon. Now, looking at it with objective reasoning and as an adult, it seems more anti-EV hysteria than anything real. State Farm's deep pockets to litigate aside (I could go into my knowledge of how things go in the Credit world, but this is not that. Long story short, they will spend anything if the decision is made to do so, logic and smarts will not enter into it, moving on,) I don't see how Tesla could be on the hook, Suzuki Samurai tip-over and Audi 5000 bad acceleration doctored tests to make "evidence" come to mind.

Samsung discontinued the Note 7 over battery fire issues. It happened more than a few times I believe.

But unless Teslas are catching fire left and right, you should look maybe to user error for a guilty party... Separate conversation about how insurance companies rule the world.

If you're that worried about it, don't park your car in a garage or anywhere leaping flames could catch to other things. Maybe 100 feet away in an open field on a concrete platform with fire suppression and a license for fire alarm to the local fire station. How far will we go with this.

Virtually anything can happen at any time, you plan your life for what is most likely, life is a risk assessment equation, too many extremes here to list.

 

[ZeeOSix]

That pack of Marlboros in your pocket...

 

[PandaBear]

They just contract with health providers like Kaiser, Blue Shield etc. Almost all companies are the same, it isn’t my employer alone. I have Blue Shield and Medicare now as I am older. Medicare also has no such smoking surcharges. Like I said smoking is only one of many bad things.
The other thing is you can say you don’t smoke truthfully. It’s up to the time it was asked. They don’t say will you promise to never smoke? I’m not buying it until I see a published rate sheet from a group plan that has smoker rates and non smoker in writing. Lot of talking, easy to settle, but so far, nothing.

Well you see, there are many things in insurance you can lie about, or if you change and didn't tell them.

Say you tell them you work from home then you switch job and commute 120 miles a day 5 days a week, and you get into an accident 1 month later vs 5 years later. Which one do you think you will get into trouble with and how would they find out?

Your odometer gave you away and your health condition gave you away. Say you were sent to their doctor for a high claim second opinion and they concluded that you are very likely you smoke 1 pack a day for 10 years already, and they deny your claim, vs you just got drunk and smoke 1 cigarette or a cigar at a gender revealing party, which one do you think will get in trouble?

Like all things in insurance, are you feeling lucky? and do you think you will have a lawyer willing to represent you to sue the insurance company if they reject your claim because "you lied"?

Are you feeling lucky if you are not honest on your 1040? or are you feeling lucky about telling your auto insurance you drive less than you actually do? or are you feeling lucky about how many cigarettes you smoke every week?

 

[Job]

Well you see, there are many things in insurance you can lie about, or if you change and didn't tell them.

Say you tell them you work from home then you switch job and commute 120 miles a day 5 days a week, and you get into an accident 1 month later vs 5 years later. Which one do you think you will get into trouble with and how would they find out?

Your odometer gave you away and your health condition gave you away. Say you were sent to their doctor for a high claim second opinion and they concluded that you are very likely you smoke 1 pack a day for 10 years already, and they deny your claim, vs you just got drunk and smoke 1 cigarette or a cigar at a gender revealing party, which one do you think will get in trouble?

Like all things in insurance, are you feeling lucky? and do you think you will have a lawyer willing to represent you to sue the insurance company if they reject your claim because "you lied"?

Are you feeling lucky if you are not honest on your 1040? or are you feeling lucky about telling your auto insurance you drive less than you actually do? or are you feeling lucky about how many cigarettes you smoke every week?

But you talk as if this is true, two health plans for smokers and non. So far, nothing here shows it. Google, Yahoo, HP, Varian, etc, any of them have group health plans. No concrete evidence? Ninety year old man pays the same as 18 year old. A 500 pound man pays the same as a 125 pounder. That’s how group plans work. Also pre existing conditions cannot be used to deny health benefits by law.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Took me 5 seconds to find this.

https://parinsurance.com/how-smokin...text=Tobacco Rating,to 50% more for premiums.

 

[PandaBear]

https://www.healthaffairs.org/doi/10.1377/hlthaff.2017.1062

 

[PandaBear]

But you talk as if this is true, two health plans for smokers and non. So far, nothing here shows it. Google, Yahoo, HP, Varian, etc, any of them have group health plans. No concrete evidence? Ninety year old man pays the same as 18 year old. A 500 pound man pays the same as a 125 pounder. That’s how group plans work. Also pre existing conditions cannot be used to deny health benefits by law.

I provided the data along with ZeeOSix. What about your data. My former employer the fruit company does tobacco surcharge when I was there. Another obvious doesn't (a Korean memory company) as they have heavy smoker populations with a smoking in the parking lot as a meeting culture.

As I said before, health status except tobacco use cannot be a factor for different premium "by law". Tobacco use is the only exception "by law". I can google it and find it almost within 10 seconds. YOU just do not want to admit it.

 

[Slow Car Sport Mode]

I'm generally not a fan of insurance companies, although I can see how they may be a necessary evil.

Would be interested to know where and when the first insurance company came to be. And under what circumstances.

 

[PandaBear]

I'm generally not a fan of insurance companies, although I can see how they may be a necessary evil.

Would be interested to know where and when the first insurance company came to be. And under what circumstances.

Critics the insurance expert here told us once that insurance companies generally pay out 90-98% of the premium collected in claims and related expenses.

The best insurance for you may not be the same as for me, because you may be in the same risk pool with an honest nonsmoking coworker I may be in the same risk pool with a deadbeat who lied about his smoker status and alcohol addiction problem. The best you can do is find a plan that bin you into other "nice" people instead of another addict.

 

[Job]

I provided the data along with ZeeOSix. What about your data. My former employer the fruit company does tobacco surcharge when I was there. Another obvious doesn't (a Korean memory company) as they have heavy smoker populations with a smoking in the parking lot as a meeting culture.

As I said before, health status except tobacco use cannot be a factor for different premium "by law". Tobacco use is the only exception "by law". I can google it and find it almost within 10 seconds. YOU just do not want to admit it.

No wonder, I live in CA, my group plan is large, and I don't know anyone who has a word mentioned about smoking is extra in their plans. All cleared up. Sounds like this was a contentious issue when the ACA was fought for. Even the American Cancer Society was against a surcharge. Don’t know about your fruit company, what they were up to. Medicare doesn’t have it either, as far as I know. Never saw any Kaiser, Blue Shield, none of them had a word about extra charges for the 48 consecutive years I have been on Stanford’s plans.
The Korean company probably contracted with large providers like Kaiser, and so there is no surcharge option, not because the parking lot is full of smokers.
From the internet:
“And in California, the District of Columbia, Massachusetts, New Jersey, New York, Rhode Island, and Vermont, insurers are not allowed to charge tobacco users higher premiums.2 Connecticut also prohibits tobacco surcharges, but only for health plans sold in the state's health insurance exchange (Access Health CT).9
Although the majority of states do allow insurers to impose tobacco surcharges of up to 50%, many insurers choose to use smaller surcharges or skip them altogether. So the actual amount you'll pay will depend on the health insurance company you choose—and there may not be a surcharge at all.”

 

[ZeeOSix]

Medicare doesn’t have it either, as far as I know.

Except for this wrinkle.

 

[Job]

Except for this wrinkle.

View attachment 92453

Every year Medicare publishes the next years rates. No smoker rate. Supplemental insurance is secondary insurance to Medicare by other health providers. Same rules apply as already discussed. Not in CA etc. You spend a lot of time trying to prove me wrong on everything I write, wonder why that is so important to you? Get rid of challengers in your little deal here? What else do you do besides be here? It’s a severe addiction, run and look up addiction to internet sites. You got it real bad, hope you can find a way out. It’s probably worse than a smoking addiction.
If you look at the posts, there is a core group of addicts posting here, including me. Not as much addicted as you. I admit it, but I am strong, I can break it. A lot of good people have left, I suspect it dawned on them such addiction is very unhealthy. Try it I bet you can’t stay away two weeks.
There is some very useful info here, but when it becomes like what you are doing, it another thing entirely. There is no point to your actions like what you did here. It wasn’t even your conversation. I don’t think you even realize it.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Every year Medicare publishes the next years rates. No smoker rate. Supplemental insurance is secondary insurance to Medicare by other health providers. Same rules apply as already discussed. Not in CA etc. You spend a lot of time trying to prove me wrong on everything I write, wonder why that is so important to you? Get rid of challengers in your little deal here? What else do you do besides be here? It’s a severe addiction, run and look up addiction to internet sites. You got it real bad, hope you can find a way out. It’s probably worse than a smoking addiction.
If you look at the posts, there is a core group of addicts posting here, including me. Not as much addicted as you. I admit it, but I am strong, I can break it. A lot of good people have left, I suspect it dawned on them such addiction is very unhealthy. Try it I bet you can’t stay away two weeks.
There is some very useful info here, but when it becomes like what you are doing, it another thing entirely. There is no point to your actions like what you did here. It wasn’t even your conversation. I don’t think you even realize it.

LOL ... says the guy who has been here as long as me (since 2010 originally as member "goodtimes"), has been banned 3-4 times and keeps signing back up under different usernames. Dude, there are people here that have been here way longer than me, and have way more posts then myself. Only time you've been away for 2 weeks is when you get banned for a month, lol. Pot calling the kettle black ... why such hate? Feeling a little hurt because you are proven wrong on most things you post and say? Maybe you should check some of the facts before you post stuff. I posted something you didn't realize, and maybe other people may not have known ... big deal, but you seem to be all irate about people adding information to the discussion. Maybe you should look into that.

And guess what ... this is a PUBLIC chat board, so ALL discussions belong to EVERYONE. I and anyone/everyone else can post what they want in ANY thread on this chat board. You don't run this chat board, but it sounds like you think you do.

 

[PandaBear]

Every year Medicare publishes the next years rates. No smoker rate. Supplemental insurance is secondary insurance to Medicare by other health providers. Same rules apply as already discussed. Not in CA etc. You spend a lot of time trying to prove me wrong on everything I write, wonder why that is so important to you? Get rid of challengers in your little deal here? What else do you do besides be here? It’s a severe addiction, run and look up addiction to internet sites. You got it real bad, hope you can find a way out. It’s probably worse than a smoking addiction.
If you look at the posts, there is a core group of addicts posting here, including me. Not as much addicted as you. I admit it, but I am strong, I can break it. A lot of good people have left, I suspect it dawned on them such addiction is very unhealthy. Try it I bet you can’t stay away two weeks.
There is some very useful info here, but when it becomes like what you are doing, it another thing entirely. There is no point to your actions like what you did here. It wasn’t even your conversation. I don’t think you even realize it.

Let's be polite here. If I post something online that's wrong, I would rather know about this than making a fool of myself everywhere else I post it.

There are opinions (which has nothing to do with right or wrong, like whether you believe tax is good or evil). Then there are facts, like whether smoker pays higher rate or not (and to what extend and which plan).

It's only the internet, don't take it too seriously.

 

[repairman54]

Out of court settlement with a non-disclosure condition and it goes away. Musk and State Farm walk away happy.
Model S in a crash this week in NJ. Driver hit a tree and died in it. Battery ruptured and went into thermal overload and kept burning. Took FD 2 hrs. to put it out per the news article.

 

[Job]

Let's be polite here. If I post something online that's wrong, I would rather know about this than making a fool of myself everywhere else I post it.

There are opinions (which has nothing to do with right or wrong, like whether you believe tax is good or evil). Then there are facts, like whether smoker pays higher rate or not (and to what extend and which plan).

It's only the internet, don't take it too seriously.

Talk about taking it all too seriously. Like I said, I never saw a plan with a smoker rate.

Now lets go to “lets be polite”, then calling someone a fool in the next sentence.

Riding in a basket full of flammable lithium ion batteries may be a new definition of smoker risk. State Farm seems to hint at that and where it is going.

 

[ZeeOSix]

 

[Job]

LOL ... says the guy who has been here as long as me (since 2010 originally as member "goodtimes"), has been banned 3-4 times and keeps signing back up under different usernames. Dude, there are people here that have been here way longer than me, and have way more posts then myself. Only time you've been away for 2 weeks is when you get banned for a month, lol. Pot calling the kettle black ... why such hate? Feeling a little hurt because you are proven wrong on most things you post and say? Maybe you should check some of the facts before you post stuff. I posted something you didn't realize, and maybe other people may not have known ... big deal, but you seem to be all irate about people adding information to the discussion. Maybe you should look into that.

And guess what ... this is a PUBLIC chat board, so ALL discussions belong to EVERYONE. I and anyone/everyone else can post what they want in ANY thread on this chat board. You don't run this chat board, but it sounds like you think you do.

Same ol thing, like clockwork. I clarified my smoker position. You failed to remember that. You failed to repeat that. What I said was correct in my context 100%.
Don’t tell me I can’t say that’s the pot calling the kettle black, when he says let’s be polite here then calls me a fool in the next sentence. You left his part out. What happened to “anyone/everyone else can post what they want in ANY thread on this chat board.” Oh wait, you decide all that.
The short version is go look in a mirror for the false things you say about me.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Same ol thing, like clockwork. I clarified my smoker position. You failed to remember that. You failed to repeat that. What I said was correct in my context 100%.
Don’t tell me I can’t say that’s the pot calling the kettle black, when he says let’s be polite here then calls me a fool in the next sentence. You left his part out. What happened to “anyone/everyone else can post what they want in ANY thread on this chat board.” Oh wait, you decide all that.
The short version is go look in a mirror for the false things you say about me.

"Like clockwork"? LoL, I was responding to your tirate. You're really losing it, and didn't understand half of what I said. I never said you or anyone else (except for the Mods) can't "say what you want". I said you can't tell me or anyone else here what they post, or who they post a comment to. Maybe you'll have a chance to create another username soon if you keep trying to tell people who can and cannot post a reply to who.

Why so uptight, grumpy and irate all the time? Maybe you're a smoker and go off the deep end when something negative about smoking is mentioned. Go have a smoke and chill, lol.