Start-Stop - Does it save fuel?

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by CKN
Typical BITOG speak. They add new tech-and the first prevalent thought is "What if it breaks?". The issue being is many on here do not understand AT ALL-how the starters for this tech are way different than what are in vehicles now.


Please tell us how these starters are way different. From my reading on the subject, most manufacturers simply put on a bigger starter, usually from a diesel equipped model.
I know Mazda was working on getting the engine stopped at the right piston position and then just squirt some fuel and ignite the mixture, but I don't think it's in the production models yet.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted by Kestas
It works both ways... the compounded cost of adding this technology to 100,000 vehicles and repairing it when it goes bad can be tremendous.


Depends. It may also force them to beef up the starting and reduce a lot of starter related problems. Look at Prius, they usually don't have problem starting because of the electric motors. Time will tell in a few years how reliable these things are, but eventually they will all be reliable enough for us (i.e. 200K miles).

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by CKN
Typical BITOG speak. They add new tech-and the first prevalent thought is "What if it breaks?". The issue being is many on here do not understand AT ALL-how the starters for this tech are way different than what are in vehicles now.


Please tell us how these starters are way different. From my reading on the subject, most manufacturers simply put on a bigger starter, usually from a diesel equipped model.
I know Mazda was working on getting the engine stopped at the right piston position and then just squirt some fuel and ignite the mixture, but I don't think it's in the production models yet.


Have fun-

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter

 

[Kestas]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by Kestas
It works both ways... the compounded cost of adding this technology to 100,000 vehicles and repairing it when it goes bad can be tremendous.

Typical BITOG speak. They add new tech-and the first prevalent thought is "What if it breaks?". The issue being is many on here do not understand AT ALL-how the starters for this tech are way different than what are in vehicles now.

My comment comes from my experience working on cars. In the past couple decades I find myself chasing down problems caused by components that never existed on cars in the past. I have no reason to believe further technology would be any different.

I am quite aware the new starters with start/stop technology are not the same as the conventional starters we're all familiar with.

 

[CharBaby]

Here is a commentary based(supposedly based on fact) from John Cadogan of AutoExpertTV @autoexpert.com.au.
Take it for what it's worth. It is an interesting video/commentary.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k159M8QhCIE

 

[hpb]

Good ol' John Cadogan - tells it like it is!

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by CKN
Typical BITOG speak. They add new tech-and the first prevalent thought is "What if it breaks?". The issue being is many on here do not understand AT ALL-how the starters for this tech are way different than what are in vehicles now.


Please tell us how these starters are way different. From my reading on the subject, most manufacturers simply put on a bigger starter, usually from a diesel equipped model.
I know Mazda was working on getting the engine stopped at the right piston position and then just squirt some fuel and ignite the mixture, but I don't think it's in the production models yet.


Have fun-

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter


I read it before, for non-hybrid models they basically mention beefed up regular starters with bearings instead of bushings, stronger motors so it will spin slower, etc. Stuff already mentioned. How is it "way different"? Seeing how you claim to understand this "new tech" while many apparently don't, please explain your statement.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by CKN
Originally Posted by KrisZ
Originally Posted by CKN
Typical BITOG speak. They add new tech-and the first prevalent thought is "What if it breaks?". The issue being is many on here do not understand AT ALL-how the starters for this tech are way different than what are in vehicles now.


Please tell us how these starters are way different. From my reading on the subject, most manufacturers simply put on a bigger starter, usually from a diesel equipped model.
I know Mazda was working on getting the engine stopped at the right piston position and then just squirt some fuel and ignite the mixture, but I don't think it's in the production models yet.


Have fun-

https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1109687_dont-start-stop-systems-wear-out-your-cars-starter


I read it before, for non-hybrid models they basically mention beefed up regular starters with bearings instead of bushings, stronger motors so it will spin slower, etc. Stuff already mentioned. How is it "way different"? Seeing how you claim to understand this "new tech" while many apparently don't, please explain your statement.


If this doesn't satisfy your answer-we are done.

http://www.globaldenso.com/en/newsreleases/110914-01.html

It's a whole system-designed around the starter. That's what many don't get on here. The starters ARE DIFFERENT than conventional starters.

 

[Kjmack]

I have it in my Volvo , luckily I have a button to turn it off , it's the first thing I do after starting the car . O yeah and no friggin dipstick . First and last Volvo for me .

 

[Shannow]

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/02/f8/idle-stop_light_duty_passenger_vehicles.pdf

Heres a gov paper on it...looks like the biggest benefit is that stop start kills the AC load for the duration of the stop.

Bigger MPG difference in the AC is on.

 

[MNgopher]

I liked reading the conclusions of the report Shannow provided where they indcate that one of the biggest issues is educating the drivers of these vehicles on the operation of the system to take advantage of them.

If one refuses to understand and drive in a way in which takes advantage of the system, then no, you won't see a benefit. From many of the posts, that is generally what is indicated - I drive how I drive, and I'm not changing. It took me all of one day of driving my truck to figure out simple modulation of brake pressures makes the system do what I would like it to do the vast majority of the time. Go figure...

 

[Brigadier]

There is probably a hood latch switch you can bypass to bypass the stupid start-stop system. I would look into that.

 

[PimTac]

When gasoline was expensive in the 70's and harder to get as well, a lot of drivers shut off their engines at long stops to conserve fuel. Now that a system does it for you everyone balks at the notion. If gasoline was $5 a gallon and rationed the system would be praised.

It does depend on the system itself. I drove a Fiat Pacifica that had it. It was annoying as it would shut off at the briefest of stops. It possible needed some programming to fix it.

There are better ways to conserve fuel. Consolidate trips, proper tire inflation, a lighter foot on the gas pedal, and so forth.

 

[RamFan]

Originally Posted by Shannow
https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/02/f8/idle-stop_light_duty_passenger_vehicles.pdf

Heres a gov paper on it...


As always, awesome contribution!

Originally Posted by PimTac
When gasoline was expensive in the 70's and harder to get as well, a lot of drivers shut off their engines at long stops to conserve fuel. Now that a system does it for you everyone balks at the notion. If gasoline was $5 a gallon and rationed the system would be praised.


I tend to agree with this, similar to how SUV/Truck sales have exploded once again. I filled up this morning and Regular was sitting at $1.85/gal at Costco.


Originally Posted by MNgopher
I liked reading the conclusions of the report Shannow provided where they indcate that one of the biggest issues is educating the drivers of these vehicles on the operation of the system to take advantage of them.

It took me all of one day of driving my truck to figure out simple modulation of brake pressures makes the system do what I would like it to do the vast majority of the time. Go figure...


Yes, conclusion was definitely interesting and seems pretty spot on. I wish mine cared about brake pressure applied. Unfortunately regardless of pressure applied, once I come to a complete stop, engine is killed. I've found other ways to circumvent this which seems to be working pretty well so far.