Stanford research: EV batteries may last 40% longer than we previously thought?

It's listed right in the paper, the main monetary contributors were the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowship Program & Stanford Chevron Fellowship in Energy. So the federal government and Chevron.
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Sounds great on paper but the reality is far too many researchers genuflect to the entity funding the research. The pressure to receive funding at many higher education research-based institutions is immense. That weight is suffocating to pure, unbiased research.
 
This is actually fitting reality in bikes, cars, tools, etc. So I basically agree with her, we need to look at our predictive modeling,

But wow - people give the battery hate a rest.

Reality is that things that can rebalance intercalated ions, and operations thst keep a higher SOC or, more importantly, a more narrow band of soc will be healthier. I agree thst modeling that evaluates stress/strain of the anode, and impedance growth due to time at temperature will be telling.

There are a million other manufacturing and component related failures thst come into play too.

She's likely researching what she's paid to research and potentially publishing findings as per 'expectations' from said research. Most what she says is common sense anyway.
That can be true, but in science like this, unless it’s from someone with a climate or sales agenda, most folks want to actually get to objective truth. The NSF program director pipeline may be a good old boys network, but it doesn’t mean that the science is false.

The article brings up some interesting points.

However I don't think its completely accurate for a very simple reason - the big EV manufacturers already have way more data than any lab study is going to produce. So they already know the likely longevity, and have optimized the charge profile to the use case, and there probably already cheapening the batteries to benefit from what they know.

Shorter - as usual the academics are behind.
It’s incredibly hard to make heads and tails of those data. It’s no different than when we ask about what oil is best or can we tell the difference between oil a and b in wear testing, and the answer usually is no, thst some ppm of wear metal is statistically the same and won’t make a difference in observed engine longevity. There are too many variables, which is why specific characterization tests are desirable. Those coupled with smarte algorithms and data analytics may yield better outcomes in time…

Sounds great on paper but the reality is far too many researchers genuflect to the entity funding the research. The pressure to receive funding at many higher education research-based institutions is immense. That weight is suffocating to pure, unbiased research.
You’re not wrong, often researchers hungry for money… and remember that research expenditures are the real golden goose and key metric for most university professors looking to progress their career… will speak the outlook of the program officer resourcing their work. And will study to observe the outcome that the funding is attempting to observe or prove. But if it isn’t real - that’s not to say that the science will be misleading or lying…
Some early Model S buyers used them as airport limousines, supercharging them from near "empty" to 100% several times a day and then running long distances on the freeway. And those batteries were lasting 200 - 250,000 miles.

According to this study, that type of limousine service would be an even worse case situation (for extended battery life) than we had thought.
thing is, there is calendar life and cycle life. Both have their effects. If the battery is suitably derated, and kept cool, cycle life can be not that big of a deal…
 
Sounds great on paper but the reality is far too many researchers genuflect to the entity funding the research. The pressure to receive funding at many higher education research-based institutions is immense. That weight is suffocating to pure, unbiased research.
You’re not wrong, often researchers hungry for money… and remember that research expenditures are the real golden goose and key metric for most university professors looking to progress their career… will speak the outlook of the program officer resourcing their work. And will study to observe the outcome that the funding is attempting to observe or prove. But if it isn’t real - that’s not to say that the science will be misleading or lying…

To me, this is the departure point. Researchers and scientists are largely not liars in the traditional sense but far too many are willing to "bend" reality or not include to meet an expectation from the funding provider. It's a rather difficult conundrum and I wouldn't want to find myself owning that decision.

This reminds me of a Jordan Peterson comment along the lines of so many of us like to believe we would be Shindler during WWII and that is just not human nature.
 
And... In the meantime... Greece has miles of cars piled up on roads due to EVs dieing due to low temps. Mind you, there are no emissions from them shut down cold... Lol
Meanwhile, gas and diesel powered cars' 'occupants' are warm and safe, thank you for your time :ROFLMAO:
 
And... In the meantime... Greece has miles of cars piled up on roads due to EVs dieing due to low temps. Mind you, there are no emissions from them shut down cold... Lol
Meanwhile, gas and diesel powered cars' 'occupants' are warm and safe, thank you for your time :ROFLMAO:
Better put your flame suit on!! ;)
 
Good news. Will be nice to know what real world data is out there. I want an EV for a 50 mile one way commute with free charging at work.
 
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And... In the meantime... Greece has miles of cars piled up on roads due to EVs dieing due to low temps. Mind you, there are no emissions from them shut down cold... Lol
Meanwhile, gas and diesel powered cars' 'occupants' are warm and safe, thank you for your time :ROFLMAO:
Curious what “cold” temps were hit in Greece?
 
It will be intersting to see what policies change after 1-20-25. No more wasting $7 billion to build EIGHT EV charging stations, etc.
CLAIM: The Biden administration spent $7.5 billion to build eight electric vehicle charging stations.

THE FACTS: That’s incorrect. The $7.5 billion figure refers to the total amount allocated through the 2021 law to build a network of charging stations across the U.S., not the amount that has already been spent. There are currently 214 operational chargers in 12 states that have been funded through the law, with 24,800 projects underway across the country, according to the Federal Highway Administration.
 
And... In the meantime... Greece has miles of cars piled up on roads due to EVs dieing due to low temps. Mind you, there are no emissions from them shut down cold... Lol
Meanwhile, gas and diesel powered cars' 'occupants' are warm and safe, thank you for your time :ROFLMAO:
A little data or a story to show this would be beneficial to back up your claim.
 
And... In the meantime... Greece has miles of cars piled up on roads due to EVs dieing due to low temps. Mind you, there are no emissions from them shut down cold... Lol
Meanwhile, gas and diesel powered cars' 'occupants' are warm and safe, thank you for your time :ROFLMAO:
Sounds like a lotta people chose the wrong car for their use case.

"Gee, I hit myself in the head with a hammer and it hurt!"
 
Sounds great on paper but the reality is far too many researchers genuflect to the entity funding the research. The pressure to receive funding at many higher education research-based institutions is immense. That weight is suffocating to pure, unbiased research.

I'm skeptical of all research papers regardless of my like or dislike of the topic matter.

They are all at best "data points" vs. any kind of whole truth.

On the topic of batteries, as a (former) hybrid owner Ive been following automotive batteries in all forms for quite a while and while nothing is 100% they have performed better than the early fears about them were, and are today.

I recognize there my possibly be no amount of positive data point that would ever change ones opinion of vehicles powered by them.
 
Sounds like a lotta people chose the wrong car for their use case.

"Gee, I hit myself in the head with a hammer and it hurt!"

I've been to Greece multiple times, not once could they keep the lights on 24x7, so it might be an awful place for an EV.
(not sure about the cold being the big problem though)

At the "resorts" (read - hotel/airbnb with a pool) every outage is met with a round of oopa's! along with a another round for the return of Zeuss's power to Mt Olympus.
 
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CLAIM: The Biden administration spent $7.5 billion to build eight electric vehicle charging stations.

THE FACTS: That’s incorrect. The $7.5 billion figure refers to the total amount allocated through the 2021 law to build a network of charging stations across the U.S., not the amount that has already been spent. There are currently 214 operational chargers in 12 states that have been funded through the law, with 24,800 projects underway across the country, according to the Federal Highway Administration.
The plug is about to get pulled on the green new deal. Days away.
 
I've been to Greece multiple times, not once could they keep the lights on 24x7, so it might be an awful place for an EV.
(not sure oabout the cold being the big problem though)

At the "resorts" (read - hotel/airbnb with a pool) every outage is met with a round of oopa's! along with a another round for the return of Zeuss's power to Mt Olympus.
It's clearly electric vehicle's fault. And that wack CEO guy. He's wack.
 
Stanford University study on EV battery useful lifecycle.

"Real driving with frequent acceleration, braking that charges the batteries a bit, stopping to pop into a store, and letting the batteries rest for hours at a time, helps batteries last longer than we had thought.”
Simona OnoriAssociate Professor of Energy Science and Engineering

Time will tell...
Interesting study. My anecdotal evidence to add to this is that the only EV batteries I've really heard people gripe about are in Leafs, especially here in Phoenix (passively cooled pack), and I have a hunch that the couple of folks I know who have PHEVs and don't charge them might have issues down the road. Other than that, I've spoken with quite a few high mileage BEV and HEV owners who have seen very minimal degradation and have nothing but positive things to say about the car.

Downsized TGDI economy engines (esp. those with CVTs) feel like the dying breaths of the ICE in consumer vehicles. Hell, my GDI 2 liter sounds like death even though it's running perfectly. The writing is on the wall.
 
Interesting study. My anecdotal evidence to add to this is that the only EV batteries I've really heard people gripe about are in Leafs, especially here in Phoenix (passively cooled pack), and I have a hunch that the couple of folks I know who have PHEVs and don't charge them might have issues down the road. Other than that, I've spoken with quite a few high mileage BEV and HEV owners who have seen very minimal degradation and have nothing but positive things to say about the car.

Downsized TGDI economy engines (esp. those with CVTs) feel like the dying breaths of the ICE in consumer vehicles. Hell, my GDI 2 liter sounds like death even though it's running perfectly. The writing is on the wall.
Early Tesla S had plenty of battery issues.
 
Early Tesla S had plenty of battery issues.
Sure, but what I'm hearing is that the failures are largely a result of poor build quality on Tesla's part (faults such as moisture ingress). The EV experiment seems successful and has the potential for excellent reliability otherwise, assuming they're not put together by morons.
 
Sure, but what I'm hearing is that the failures are largely a result of poor build quality on Tesla's part (faults such as moisture ingress). The EV experiment seems successful and has the potential for excellent reliability otherwise, assuming they're not put together by morons.


The early cars from every builder didn't always get it right.
Sometimes even the most successful high end coach builders run into the same issues.
One would think the highly skilled, educated and experienced team at Audi would have engineered around a similar problem but they didn't.

https://www.e-tronforum.com/threads...-tron-charging-port-doors-water-ingress.7149/
 
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