Stanford research: EV batteries may last 40% longer than we previously thought?

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EV's arent a bad idea because they dont work for Hertz anymore than the cheap stripper malibus they rent are great because they do.
Hertz certainly does offer EVs for rent.
It might depend on your market but I am sure over there on the West Coast has to be even more prevalent than here on the East Coast
Maybe they are leftovers and not buying anymore, that I dont know. But I thought, that they were not completely abandoning the EV market but just greatly scaling back.

Here in NC you can rent a Model 3, EV6 or similar and Polestar 2 or similar
 
Just because she is at Stanford is meaningless. I would want to know is she just another woker or some sort crackpot pushing an agenda, the way colleges and universities are today that is more than just a possibility. A much deeper dive is needed into her beliefs and positions before lending credence to her papers. JMHO
Yep.
 
The EV curve is on the way up.

The Ice curve is on the way down, the cars are getting worse.
They are more complex and expensive than ever, and are about to get even worse with GPF coming to the US.
We've got dual injection systems in some to overcome buildup on the intake side when running DI.

If you live in California you cant modify or upgrade anything, and in some cases even get stranded for parts, and have to pay non ending series of checks with smog stations and (get this) "master" smog stations - to insure compliance.

The Ev lets me flip the bird to these clowns.
100%
 
The EV curve is on the way up.

The Ice curve is on the way down, the cars are getting worse.
They are more complex and expensive than ever, and are about to get even worse with GPF coming to the US.
We've got dual injection systems in some to overcome buildup on the intake side when running DI.

If you live in California you cant modify or upgrade anything, and in some cases even get stranded for parts, and have to pay non ending series of checks with smog stations and (get this) "master" smog stations - to insure compliance.

The Ev lets me flip the bird to these clowns.
This is what finally converted me. The technology used to sidestep tightening CAFE and emissions has really ruined the gasoline vehicle experience for me. Start/Stop is annoying and just attracts attention to how coarse sounding modern small displacement DI turbo engines are. Then of course the DI deposits. It's just bleeding the stone. Trying to get everything we can out of them to get another 0.2 on a chart and just making modern cars worse to use. We've already seen the drop in reliability in modern diesel trucks due to all of these required systems. I have no desire to play with that and while I've spent many years turning wrenches I don't want to toy with these things when they get older.

I'll take less costs to operate and less things to repair with a long warranty even if it gives me a little more cost up front. An EV just seems like such a huge improvement across the board to me after living with it for 6 weeks now. I don't miss the gas station stops and it's just smooth operating everywhere. For a modern daily driver I'm not going back. A weekend toy pre-DI and turbo, that's another story, but it'll be too old for me to want to deal with it on a daily basis. That will be something VW with a VR6 in it. A Corrado if I can find the right one.
 
Hertz certainly does offer EVs for rent.
It might depend on your market but I am sure over there on the West Coast has to be even more prevalent than here on the East Coast
Maybe they are leftovers and not buying anymore, that I dont know. But I thought, that they were not completely abandoning the EV market but just greatly scaling back.

Here in NC you can rent a Model 3, EV6 or similar and Polestar 2 or similar

They are certainly more prevalent in the west and I agree they aren't abandoning the sector completely, but thinning the herd.

Unless the airport in question has tons of charging available on or near site, it doesn't seem a great choice for either the renter or renting party.



Merry Christmas AG and everyone!
 
Waiting on the MIT paper for collaboration before I make my final decision……
That's wise.

Other studies using different methodologies and different assumptions will attempt to replicate the study. These studies will usually get somewhat different results. On occasion they will get completely different results which leads to much discussion about what went wrong and with which study. But usually the original study has identified a true difference and the debate is around how much it is.

Real life will determine the truth of the original work. But it will take 10 or 15 years to find out whether Model 3 batteries really do last 38% longer than expected. And that's a long time.
 
The batteries in the 2015 Tesla Model S are now 10 years old. Let’s ask the owners how they faired. I expect they are on to the 2nd and third owners by now.
Some early Model S buyers used them as airport limousines, supercharging them from near "empty" to 100% several times a day and then running long distances on the freeway. And those batteries were lasting 200 - 250,000 miles.

According to this study, that type of limousine service would be an even worse case situation (for extended battery life) than we had thought.
 
Just because she is at Stanford is meaningless. I would want to know is she just another woker or some sort crackpot pushing an agenda, the way colleges and universities are today that is more than just a possibility. A much deeper dive is needed into her beliefs and positions before lending credence to her papers. JMHO
I agree with a lot you say but not that. There is no reason to investigate the author, who was only part of a team. Plus what they say is instead of 7.5 years for example, you get 10, 1/3 more. if just reading the few sentences in the article. Big deal.
Merry Christmas too, we all say it left or right.

“could last about a third longer than researchers have generally forecast, according to a new study by scientists working in the SLAC-Stanford Battery Center, a joint center between Stanford University’s Precourt Institute for Energyand SLAC National Accelerator Laboratory.”
 
Here we go again... Similar narrative was about 100+ years ago: “[Motor cars] have the appearance of a fad, and an extremely dirty, dusty, inconvenient fad… These crude impracticable machines are unlikely for many years to displace in the Englishman's affection a fine trotting horse and a smart trap.” So wrote an anonymous equestrian to the syndicated press in 1901.
Get over it, vehicles with electric motors and batteries are here to stay, and they will only get better every year.(with some possibility of batteries being replaced by capacitors at some point, and/or internal combustion engines with some hydrogen power plants to to serve as generators in phev like vehicles).
I mean, the original motor cars were EV's 🤷‍♂️ They were replaced by ICE motor cars due to the inherent superiority of liquid fuels in providing longer duration mobility.

That is still the case, though lithium chemistry has significantly closed the gap, and the evolution of electric motors has resulted in some serious performance advantages at low cost for modern EV's.

This is similar to the transition from the age of sail to the age of steam. Except that somehow the wind and sun have been romanticized to the point where there is massive resurgence in their support.
 
I mean, the original motor cars were EV's 🤷‍♂️ They were replaced by ICE motor cars due to the inherent superiority of liquid fuels in providing longer duration mobility.

That is still the case, though lithium chemistry has significantly closed the gap, and the evolution of electric motors has resulted in some serious performance advantages at low cost for modern EV's.

This is similar to the transition from the age of sail to the age of steam. Except that somehow the wind and sun have been romanticized to the point where there is massive resurgence in their support.
I will also add the cost of electricity is a huge push as well to offset some of the EV public charging inconvenience. If it was more expensive than gasoline for me and I couldn't charge at home I would not have EVs, no matter how much I like the driving experience. Cost and convenience wins it for me though. Public charging is pretty rare for me to need in my travels even as much as I drive, but I just end up with longer round trips to home with the occasional stop. If I lived off of Supercharger to Supercharger constantly traveling, it may not make it my first choice. With me being the only one in the car the Golf R really jumps up there, though Model Y Performance on Superchargers is still slightly cheaper overall.

Fact is I just love cars and I want a good experience that doesn't cost a lot to put miles on. I'll buy more premium priced vehicles for the experience as much as I'm in the car, I just don't want something that gets 20mpg to do so.
 
It will be intersting to see what policies change after 1-20-25. No more wasting $7 billion to build EIGHT EV charging stations, etc.

That’s a blatant lie. The average NEVI compliant charging stall has cost $139,200.

Each full NEVI “station” generally receives $400k - $700k in funding. Each station has a bare minimum of 4 stalls. Most have more than that.

https://evstates.org/awards-dashboard/
 
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That’s a blatant lie. The average NEVI compliant charging stall has cost $139,200.

Each full NEVI “station” generally receives $400k - $700k in funding. Each station has a bare minimum of 4 stalls. Most have more than that.

https://evstates.org/awards-dashboard/
Not trying to hijack - but $139K seems high? What exactly does this include? I assume the pavement and lighting and land - then half mill for 4 chargers makes more sense.

The entire idea of a "charging station" seems fairly stupid. Put the charger at the grocery store or Mexican restaurant. You have "gas stations" because it takes 2 minutes to fill and they have to store gasoline in underground tank. Everywhere has electricity. Were over-complicating this people.
 
Not trying to hijack - but $139K seems high? What exactly does this include? I assume the pavement and lighting and land - then half mill for 4 chargers makes more sense.

The entire idea of a "charging station" seems fairly stupid. Put the charger at the grocery store or Mexican restaurant. You have "gas stations" because it takes 2 minutes to fill and they have to store gasoline in underground tank. Everywhere has electricity. Were over-complicating this people.

The vast majority of these are being installed in the parking lots of current gas stations / convenience stores / grocery stores and malls, so they’re actually doing the easiest/simplest option.

The money goes into labor, transformers, switchgear, the dispensers, wiring, conduit, lighting, etc.

Places like Pilot Travel Center, Love’s, Sheetz, Wawa, Tesla, etc. are some of the most common awardees.
 
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But that’s the total money that’s set aside for many thousands of chargers over many years, not money that’s already spent. The actual numbers are $139,200 per stall right now.

Kinda funny how quickly those articles are now outdated. There’s around 45 NEVI stations open with at least 50 more spotted under construction. There’s a new NEVI funded station opening every 4-5 days now. And that’s with only about 15 states building now. Most of the remaining states will start ramping their construction in 2025.

There will be a new NEVI station opening every couple days before long.
 
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I mean, the original motor cars were EV's 🤷‍♂️ They were replaced by ICE motor cars due to the inherent superiority of liquid fuels in providing longer duration mobility.

That is still the case, though lithium chemistry has significantly closed the gap, and the evolution of electric motors has resulted in some serious performance advantages at low cost for modern EV's.

This is similar to the transition from the age of sail to the age of steam. Except that somehow the wind and sun have been romanticized to the point where there is massive resurgence in their support.
Sure, but that was a completely different scenario. At that time only the very rich could afford a car. Ford's Highland plant changed everything. But ultimately you are right; he used gasoline engines.
 
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Sure, but that was a completely different scenario. At that time only the very rich could afford a car.
And with the first generation Tesla's, that was also arguably the case. They've of course come down-market now into more affordable segments. This, the "rebirth" of the EV after its long hiatus.
Ford's Highland plant changed everything. But ultimately you are right; he used gasoline engines.
Yes, but he was not the pioneer of the gasoline powered motor car, he just made it affordable. Petrol motor cars, like the earlier and same period EV motor cars, were originally only for the affluent, and that's typically the case for any up and coming technology.

Point being: the motor car replaced the horse. What it was powered by initially, was in flux, with multiple drive options explored and the EV option pre-dating the petrol option. The modern EV is not to the petrol motor car as the petrol motor car was to the horse. It's a resurgence; a resurrection of one of the original motor car powertrains with a great deal of refinement made to it due to advances in motor technology, battery technology and electronics/software that make it a more viable alternative to petrol in many applications, not to mention the lack of tailpipe emissions. It is not a complete reinvention of personal conveyance that was the case when the transition from the horse to the motor car took place (the point I was responding to with my earlier post).


Somewhat O/T ramble:

When we transitioned from the age of sail, being at the mercy of weather, to the age of steam, this was almost as revolutionary as the transition from the horse to the automobile. I say almost because both still involve boats.

There is a tendency to over-state the magnitude or significance of a perceived transition and this is often not done to be disingenuous but rather because the person simply believes this to be true. I've seen people claim Moore's Law applies to solar panels and batteries because they don't really understand what Moore's Law is. I've seen the claim that Wright's Law applies to SMR nuclear plants, as well as some perverted spin on Moore's Law. A $4bn 300MW SMR isn't an improvement over a $16bn 1,200MW "LMR", economically. There may be a case made for grid sizing, but plant CAPEX and OPEX don't scale up/down in-step with nameplate capacity. There is only so much simplification that can be done with traditional designs and a 300MW unit isn't going to require 1/4 the staff of a 1,200MW unit to operate. And then there's the great equalizer; the big wet blanket of regulation. We have VERY little experience operating any of the more exotic designs and there is a LOT of hype over fuel cycles that have a history of serious issues during a period where regulation wasn't even remotely close to what it is today. Water-cooled and moderated reactors won out because they were better, not because there was some grand conspiracy to prevent other options from being viable. Many of them were tested and simply proved to be inferior.

We've seen Wright's Law work for solar panels, but not for wind turbines, that have stopped getting cheaper and in fact have now gone up in price. This is because they are large and complex pieces of equipment that cannot be serially constructed and transported like solar panels can and, like with thermal plants, they attempted to scale up size to bring down cost, but this introduced more complexity and more problems, which delay projects, drive up costs and creates a negative image of the product (see: Vineyard Wind).
 
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