Standby Generators - School Me

[andyd]

You beat me to it...

I was going to say he'd better try it first before depending on it.

what d'ya think that this is gonna really happen? This is end of times f'rinstance . My meager resources are sufficient to survive for a week or 2 without anything from outside. Meantime. my utility is working to restore power, often with out of state crews brought in to deal with the situation. This ain't MA's first rodeo with wide spread outages. That's the advantage of a federally regulated grid. It is uniform in construction and built to specs. Yes it is spendy , but so is massive water damage from burst pipes, loss of life and general hardship.
As for getting gas out of a Camry, I'd be fine with raising the rear of the car, and lowering the tank to remove the filler neck or an even more drastic measure to get gas . If push comes to shove. Which is nowhere near happening.

 

[MParr]

What model # is that?

Ive seen some Generacs with valve lash interval inspections down to 50 hours.

22KW

 

[TXCarGeek]

Couple things -

A 15 and 20K genset are about the same price, and the infrastructure cost is identical.

How many power outages have you had in the last 10-20 years? How long do they last?

Of these how often does nat gas really stop flowing? That hardly ever happens here in Cali even through fires and earthquakes.

I went with Kohler for a couple of reasons -

1. Local support is better.
2. Hydraulic lash adjusters - less maintenance.
3. I've had terrible experience with Generac prior.

View attachment 46424

Over the past 10-20 years, it probably averages out to 1 outage/year. I live in the coastal bend area of Texas so between severe storms, hurricanes, random high winds, and seemingly ****ty luck in my area with other unexplained outages, it can be out for nearly half a day.

Even with the massive infrastructure failure here in Texas last week, I did not hear reports of natural gas being cut off to homes. Not saying it can't happen, but it seems highly unlikely. Especially in an area without earthquakes like my area.

Good info on the Kohler though...that's the exact kind of feedback I'm looking for. I've heard negative things about generac as well but there sure is a lot of local support for them. Kohler seems to have a lot of local support as well, followed by the Briggs units.

 

[TXCarGeek]

OP: "I don't want to put a propane tank on my property"
Everyone: "Here's the propane tank size you'll need"

Often the way it goes...facebook groups are even worse about that lol

 

[Cujet]

Just a note to those who desire a large generator. They consume massive amounts of fuel.

Most of the time, a home really does not have much electrical load. It's not difficult to "load shed" to ensure a smaller, less thirsty unit can do the job.

Also, it's good to keep in mind that natural gas outages have, on occasion, been the source of electrical power outages. In any case, in some locations, both the recent TX outage and the previous CA power problems also had natural gas outages.

 

[Andrew1972]

Do you plan on moving anytime in next 10 years? The ROI is terrible on one of the ones that are stand by.

You can get away with a portable generator and $300-$8000 electrical work to hookup properly. I had a one week outage in 2008 and another 4 day a year later in New England due to ice storms downing lines. I jumped in to portable generator that I have used 3 times max. Utilities were forced to cut their tree limbs back and it corrected issue.

TX will sort out the massive failure/risks taken in their independent grid.

 

[UncleDave]

On Big vs small Gensets.

The biggest difference in consumption comes at no load, as the loads go up consumption is relatively equal with equal fuels.
It take X amount of a given fuel to produce 3KW, regardless if your geneset can make 7 or 20.
The largest consumption variable is the load you put on it even with a fixed speed genset. (see attached)
The 20KW genset isnt using 20KW of fuel to make 3KW.
When pricing the gensets by KW, a 20K home unit is way less money than a Honda 7K.

It isnt a universal given that " you can get away with a portable unit" Many can, many cannot. I did for decades, then I changed locations and it became impractical to do so.

Lets just look at heating and cooling.

Heat
If one has a gas furnace you can probably heat the house with the a honda 2K because all you need to run is the Tstats and blower.
If your house uses a 3 ton heat pump its going to take about 7KW to start it and 5KW to run it.
Need to run a well pump on top of this? Even the biggest portable is going to struggle.

Cool
IF you have a 10KBTU hour window AC unit you can cool a single bedroom with a Honda 2K, but not reliably start a fridge at the same time.
IF your house has a single 5 ton AC and you cannot place a window unit than its going to be really hard to cool you house.
DO Need to run a well pump on top of this? Even the biggest portable is going to struggle.

Its much easier to go without power in the city where water and sewage are handled somewhere else than when you have to pay for the watts/energy to run them.

On ROI, thats going to be a more complex answer thats different for everyone and it matters tremendously what ones personal formulas look like.
Heres one example of an ROI calculation. It isnt just about the replacement cost of watts -

With so many working at home if you have a 2 day power outage and two people work at home, thats 4 lost days of work.
Whats the cost of that if one party makes 60k a year and the other 40?
Whats the cost of that if each party makes 120K a year?

 

[NormanBuntz]

My first standby generator was a 16kw Generac in 2006. The engine and converter system never had a problem, but I had terrible problems with the steel support frame and base rusting out, as I live on the NC coast. Even my first transfer switch cabinet rusted to almost nothing. The culprits: cheap Chinese steel and sub-standard painting. But it still lasted 12 years in a severe climate before I went to a new Generac 16kw, also run with propane but from a newly installed 250 gallon underground tank.

Both generators could handle my 1.5 ton and 2.5 ton heat pumps at the same time, but could not run the 5 ton unit that serves the main part of the house. I never wanted to go to a 20-22kw unit due to initial cost and higher fuel consumption. If you're worried about running your 3 ton heat pump, many heat pumps allegedly can accommodate a "hard start kit" to ease start up.

Generac has made several improvements since I bought my first one in 2006. On its replacement, I considered a Kohler at a price premium of about 15-20% until I learned about routine part supply issues Kohler was having with its Asian suppliers. That scared me off. Whatever you choose, it will provide peace of mind for you and your family. Good luck with your decision.

 

[4WD]

My first standby generator was a 16kw Generac in 2006. The engine and converter system never had a problem, but I had terrible problems with the steel support frame and base rusting out, as I live on the NC coast. It lasted 12 years before I went to a new Generac 16kw, also run with propane but from a newly installed 250 gallon underground tank.

Both generators could handle my 1.5 ton and 2.5 ton heat pumps at the same time, but could not run the 5 ton unit that serves the main part of the house. I never wanted to go to a 20-22kw unit due to initial cost and higher fuel consumption. If you're worried about running your 3 ton heat pump, many heat pumps can accommodate a "hard start kit" to ease start up.

Generac has made several improvements since I bought my first one in 2006. On its replacement, I considered a Kohler at a price premium of about 15-20% until I learned about routine part supply issues Kohler was having with its Asian suppliers. That scared me off. Whatever you choose, it will provide peace of mind for you and your family. Good luck with your decision.

Your state is one where Briggs & Stratton keeps a generator stash for rapid distribution to problem areas:
AL, CA, (NC), NJ, TX, WI

(my personal stash is only 6 machines)

 

[UncleDave]

Your state is one where Briggs & Stratton keeps a generator stash for rapid distribution to problem areas:
AL, CA, (NC), NJ, TX, WI

(my personal stash is only 6 machines)

Im down to 5.

2- Honda 2K's
1 Yamaha 3000iseb
1 20K Kohler
1 8K Cat diesel.

 

[johnachak]

I assume you are talking about a true standby automatic generator. The biggest factor for you in texas , is do you want to run your air conditioning during an outage?

That will be the biggest startup load, depending on your a/c tonnage. A 2 ton central air/ heat pump will probably pull close to 60amps startup.

A 17kw briggs standby unit puts out about 63 amps. What size is your a/c heat pump?

I have a 5 ton A/C heat pump and my 20kw Generac runs it fine. Along with the fridge and freezers, wifi, lights and tv of course.

 

[andrew_j]

Then you have no electricity.

Plan b, visit relatives with power, hotel further away whatever .

I can imagine in Texas heat brutal without central AC working similar to having no heat.

 

[Cujet]

I’ve seen sporadic posts about A/C usage. Even if you have central air, why not buy an emergency 6k window unit, just in case.

I just did this! My central AC was down for 2 days and the window unit did the trick.

 

[UncleDave]

I’ve seen sporadic posts about A/C usage. Even if you have central air, why not buy an emergency 6k window unit, just in case.

It‘s likely NICE to have the whole house cool, if the generator can handle it, but is it necessary? In places like FL I bet a small A/C unit in one BR would likely knock the humidity down enough to make things safe if not comfortable.

In the summer we run a 10K in the large, open living room (which opens up to the dining room and kitchen) to keep temps in the 80s on very hot days, but humidity in the 30s. If it gets hotter we load up the second 10k or 6k unit.

Windows shakers are great, but if your room doesn't have a window clearly they dont work.

I got by just fine at my house in LA with natural airflow and a window shaker to sleep with when it got really hot.

The tenant couldn't possibly live without central AC and after spending 15K to put it in he declared after the first summer that I was right you really only need window AC - thanks buddy.

 

[gathermewool]

I just did this! My central AC was down for 2 days and the window unit did the trick.

I don’t know if I previously posted this, but my 10k unit can be run by my portable 2k inverter generator. I haven’t ever had to run it long enough to get a good fuel consumption estimate. Also, that was when we were in our old condo. We now have 5/6k units in the bedrooms, which is all we’d need to run during a power outage in even the hottest weather. That, combined with may be a couple of fans, would keep us nice and comfy until the power was restored.

 

[gathermewool]

Windows shakers are great, but if your room doesn't have a window clearly they dont work.

I got by just fine at my house in LA with natural airflow and a window shaker to sleep with when it got really hot.

The tenant couldn't possibly live without central AC and after spending 15K to put it in he declared after the first summer that I was right you really only need window AC - thanks buddy.

We’re the same. We’d be fine during the day with some fans, but I can’t stand too hot of weather when I sleep. I’m not saying I’d HAVE to have an AC unit going, but if I can I will. Like I said, it’s more the humidity that kills. Even saving fuel by keeping the room at 75-80F would be fine so long as the humidity is low; let the fans do the real work.

I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to have a tenant like that! I guess the AC will be ready and waiting for the next tenant

 

[gathermewool]

Im down to 5.

2- Honda 2K's
1 Yamaha 3000iseb
1 20K Kohler
1 8K Cat diesel.

View attachment 47229

That meme made my chuckle - thanks for that!

I’ve only got two portable WEN generators (~2k each). I’ve luckily only needed to run one at a time. I’ve actually considered getting rid of the slightly lower-rated older one, but it runs well and I doubt I could get much for it compared to how much it would save my butt during a power outage in hot weather. I’d have the one unit running the AC and the other everything else. Having a backup is also nice.

Also, worst case, I could get a unit to family/friends, either before a major storm or after, weather and road condition permitting.

 

[UncleDave]

I can’t imagine how frustrating it must be to have a tenant like that! I guess the AC will be ready and waiting for the next tenant

As much as that scenario with the guy was frustrating he's been a gem so I dont want to jinx it by sending bad vibes!

He takes great care of the house and generally treats it like he cares.

Interestingly he's a member of the Persian community which Ive enjoyed a very close relationship with that community since my arrival in LA they've all simply been great hardworking fun peeps that employed me in my younger days and Im eternally grateful for that.

 

[UncleDave]

That meme made my chuckle - thanks for that!

I’ve only got two portable WEN generators (~2k each). I’ve luckily only needed to run one at a time. I’ve actually considered getting rid of the slightly lower-rated older one, but it runs well and I doubt I could get much for it compared to how much it would save my butt during a power outage in hot weather. I’d have the one unit running the AC and the other everything else. Having a backup is also nice.

Also, worst case, I could get a unit to family/friends, either before a major storm or after, weather and road condition permitting.

My hondas are pretty much relegated to loaners and or field work where its easier run a genset than an extension cord.