Speculators Driving Up the Cost of Oil

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Sadly what needs to happen won't:

The President and Speakers of the House and Senate need to jointly deliver the reality check message to the American People. It needs to say that the U.S. is in deep energy do-do and Americans need to shoulder the burden to cut back on energy on all levels..Electrical, heating/cooling and transportation.

Its frustrating to see the amount of energy we as a nation waste the energy we don't have and can't afford. Go to a convenience gas station some time and you will likely find the outside lights blazing away in the middle of a hot summer day.

Conservation can create a barrel of oil out nothing.
 
Originally Posted By: Patman
It makes me so angry, the price goes up because of some moron at Morgan Stanley who opens his big fat mouth and tells us he thinks oil will hit $150 a barrel by July 4! I swear they are saying stuff like this just to make it happen!

As a result of that spike, Toronto's gas prices went up 22 cents per gallon overnight!! It's now $5.10 per gallon for regular here!


You are blaming the messenger. If the market didn't think that the guy was right, nothing would have happened.
 
Hey, I told you all that you would experience shock and awe. Now you are. Take your medicine. (visions of C3PO as R2 was playing Chewy at a holographic game of some type)

"It was a fair move. Screaming about it won't help."
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Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Hey, I told you all that you would experience shock and awe. Now you are. Take your medicine. (visions of C3PO as R2 was playing Chewy at a holographic game of some type)

"It was a fair move. Screaming about it won't help."
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Gary, you sound happy about it
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But seriously, I think something had to stop our rampant consumer culture so I think in the long run, all this is good for us as a society. The "shock and awe" experienced by most Americans is still peanuts compared to what the rest of the world suffers even in good times.

The people I really feel for are the people that are truly paying for all this. And when I say pay, I'm not talking about losing a McMansion, SUV and big screen TV. I'm talking about the working class Americans who could barely make ends meet even before the crises. And the people living in poverty around the world who now have to starve along with their children. I can give a rats a$$ whiny middle class people who complain that it costs them too much to drive their SUV now.
 
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Originally Posted By: CivicFan
Originally Posted By: Patman
It makes me so angry, the price goes up because of some moron at Morgan Stanley who opens his big fat mouth and tells us he thinks oil will hit $150 a barrel by July 4! I swear they are saying stuff like this just to make it happen!

As a result of that spike, Toronto's gas prices went up 22 cents per gallon overnight!! It's now $5.10 per gallon for regular here!


You are blaming the messenger. If the market didn't think that the guy was right, nothing would have happened.


Actually, I somewhat agree with Patman. I think in times of crises, the scum start to emerge under their rocks to take advantage of the gullible. People found all kinds of new and creative ways to become criminals in the aftermath of Katrina to take advantage of people's good will.

Now I don't know if this guy at Morgan Stanley is doing this for opportunistic purposes. But considering that these big brokerages are market movers, one cerrtainly has to be suspicious.
This is a very dangerous time for investors with all the market uncertainty and fear. Lots of analysts and newsletter pushers are playing on this fear. You certainly have to filter all market information very carefully or you'll lose your shirt.
 
No, I'm not "happy"...but it is somewhat like the bitter satisfaction when I warned my wife of an impending consequence to something she was doing ..and in her entrenched nature to "do it her way at all costs" in terms of her "wants" and what she saw as her goals ..came to bear the fruit that I cautioned her about .. I kick myself in the arse for not being more assertive in the sermon.

I've been portrayed as the harbinger of doom and gloom ..and no one paid me any mind.

Here I can only say, "See ..the lunatic was right ..quit whining. I told you this was in the future."

I believe that you, yourself, (in the investor thread) stated to me that "the real problem" was capacitive deractants (some "D" word). That is, we were on a course for the ice pack ..and you were reporting that the real reason we were sinking was a faulty part in the boiler room.

I do agree that the lower rungs of the world's ladder will suffer the most. As we get cut ..the globe bleeds. We've always been at the top of the food chain ..even if we've fallen from our peak status of grace ..we're still miles above the bottom.

I will hope that some of you will try and look beyond your portfolio's nose to see the evolutionary effects of these "realignments" and the effects on your quality of life. While some rationalize that they're a natural part of the scheme of all things, it doesn't mean that they're occurring at a natural rate and that they can surely be accelerated and encouraged/coaxed. I look to those who truly benefit from it as the proponents of the movements ..to others peril.

Bottom line, when you see a carrot ..the stick up your behind will eventually follow.
 
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb

But seriously, I think something had to stop our rampant consumer culture.

The "shock and awe" experienced by most Americans is still peanuts compared to what the rest of the world suffers even in good times.

I can give a rats a$$ whiny middle class people who complain that it costs them too much to drive their SUV now.


Pretty much covers it. What we are facing immediatly right now is the realization that the Flu patient is on his death bed (U.S./World Energy Consumers). The solution is for some to go purchase the small remaining quantities of TamaFlu when not needed.

The cattle are all stampeding over the cliff right now. There is just too much free money in the world driving these excesses right now. I think as a side note that conventional investing as in Mutual funds is becoming the new dinosaur. The currency, commodity, and UP/Down market ETF's are driving everything crazy. And unfortunately if you want to make money it seems the onlyway to go.
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I think I'll spend my efforts in buffering against future side effects/losses. "Making money" may be an oxymoron and managing losses may be the new term in the lexicon.

Everyone's retirement is in the market. Everyone's paycheck is in the economy. You're at 100% over leveraged saturation and there's only down from here.
 
The free markets are going to do what they are going to do. I do believe that oil will hit a semi-bubble point this summer and crude barrels will back down to $100.

BUT if you want to truly see who the criminals are, you don't have to travel far. Just go to your states capital and look around.

I am tired of being taxed on EVERYTHING. The only time I get to skate by is when I buy something on the internet and avoid local sales tax.

Think about it...you earn money the old fashioned way and you get hit with Federal, State, Social Security (in my view its a tax since I'm 35 and will likely never see a penny) and yes my employer has to pay the other half. Next you go to spend your hard earned money that the govt has taxed already, go buy that new Mustang and wham 3.5% of the purchase price goes to the state. Then the county wants another $700 to give you a sticker that says you have paid for your personal property. Then go to buy gas and wham the gas is super taxed.

Another example is you earn money and put it into a "tax free" 401k, too bad they tax you when you take it out and then tax you in the form of sales and property taxes when you do spend it.

What am I getting at? Thank GOD we have free markets in the US, the real problem is the media making you believe that oil companies are evil. They make less of a percentage of profits than many companies in other industries. And of course they pay plenty in taxes as well. If you want to whine about oil prices then get some money in XOM and VLO and pay for your gas with the capital gains and dividends. Of course you will be taxed on those as well.
 
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan


I believe that you, yourself, (in the investor thread) stated to me that "the real problem" was capacitive deractants (some "D" word). That is, we were on a course for the ice pack ..and you were reporting that the real reason we were sinking was a faulty part in the boiler room.


I don't remember what I said specifially. By D word, doing you mean debt?

Quote:

I will hope that some of you will try and look beyond your portfolio's nose to see the evolutionary effects of these "realignments" and the effects on your quality of life. While some rationalize that they're a natural part of the scheme of all things, it doesn't mean that they're occurring at a natural rate and that they can surely be accelerated and encouraged/coaxed. I look to those who truly benefit from it as the proponents of the movements ..to others peril.

Bottom line, when you see a carrot ..the stick up your behind will eventually follow.


I'm not blind to the fact that we are all paying for this. The Fed is bailing out debtors by devaluing the debt and punishing savers. Like I said before, I am already paying in the form of higher prices, devaluation of my savings, having to take greater risk and in the future, I will have to pay higher taxes. And really, I don't believe any of my actions contributed to the current economic crises, because it is essentially a problem of too much collective debt. And honestly, I'm not bitter about it either. Life is always going to have its perils and you will always have to deal with people who don't behave in the way you'd like them to, regardless of the conditions of the world. I'll just deal with it as it comes. But if I am being punished to implicitly bail out those who racked up debt to consume and buy McMansions, then all I ask for is the right to try to recover some of my losses without having to yield to some high horse moralizing of people who want to "blame the speculators."


As for my portfolio, the main reason I am really worried about my net worth is because my daughter will someday have to live in a world wracked by too much excess. She won't be able to count on our policy makers, government etc. I hope to leave her with some cushion to give her options in life.
 
I don't think we'll be "shocked and awed". We were just as "shocked and awed" back in the early 80s. People reacted by clamoring for small cars, and blaming Ford, GM, et. al. for not offering decent small cars. Many thought the high prices were to stay. As soon as we got out of the 80s, the vehicles people were buying were bigger than ever!! Nobody learned from it. If this is just a bubble - which nobody really knows - people will go back to buying behemoths as soon as the price of gas goes down.

Perhaps many of you were too young to remember this. I was working, driving, and paying for gas back then, and watching the pains the automotive industry had to go through and predict what people will buy 3-5 years down the road, so everything that happened back then stuck in my mind.
 
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Quote:
If you think things are bad now, just wait.


I always like having my max'd out juggling act becoming even more complicated by adding a few spinning plates to the stage. Timing is the key to true impact of your actions. Always do things at the absolute worst time to develop the highest level of chaos.

Time it so your infrastructure decays when you're broke. Ignore it when you can afford it.

Time your announcement that your domestic defensive umbrella is antiquated when you can't afford it. Ignore maintaining it "in process".

Time massive projects in schools and whatnot when you're broke, not when you're wealthy.
 
I believe they said on the news that oil rose $11 a barrel yesterday, the highest one day rise in history.
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I should have invested in oil.
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Originally Posted By: Kestas
As soon as we got out of the 80s, the vehicles people were buying were bigger than ever!! Nobody learned from it. If this is just a bubble - which nobody really knows - people will go back to buying behemoths as soon as the price of gas goes down.
It's not a matter of learning a lesson, many people will buy what they like if they can afford it. Expensive gas, buy for economy. At some point, petroleum-fueled vehicles will be prohibitively expensive or effectively illegal and HOW 'BOUT THAT alternatively-fueled vehicle development will be freshly complete with cars on the market ready-to-sell! What a coincidence!

Two years ago compared with now, my "trade the Exploder for gas-sipper to save money" break-even point is the same length of time, but the wallet suffers more now than it would've before.


Are Europeans more environmentally conscious, 'enlightened' and so they buy little gas and diesel sippers? Doubt it. I can't believe that Europeans wouldn't buy the bigger more powerful vehicles (that would still fit the narrow streets) if those vehicles weren't taxed past the point of feasibility. They haven't 'learned their lesson' either, the government just decided to tax them into submission.
 
Quote:
They haven't 'learned their lesson' either, the government just decided to tax them into submission.


..and the ill effects of it are ..technologically advanced cars produced by mindless docile drones that march to the teutonic beat
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Originally Posted By: Barkleymut
Think about it...you earn money the old fashioned way and you get hit with Federal, State, Social Security (in my view its a tax since I'm 35 and will likely never see a penny) and yes my employer has to pay the other half.


The SS and the Medicare taxes are called a 'payroll tax'. It is true that the employer pays the other half but if you look at it realistically, you pay both the halves yourself. The employer simply doesn't put their half on your pay stub. Sole entrepreneurs pay both the halves themselves.
 
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