Speakers - what and why

I had some Infinity Composition Overture 3 speakers for a number of years and they were outstanding. As good a mid range as I've ever heard. Very good highs but not bright. Just quality sound with great imaging. Integral 300 watt amps in each tower but still could not produce "big" base without a sub though the base was good enough for me (I'm a mids kinda guy). They were $2800/pair way back when, mid to lzte 90's. They still show up on ebay occasionally. Wish I had never let those go.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's why I asked. The guy who owns the customs in the OP mentioned it to me today. I haven't read it, just figured I'd see what your take was on it, now I know, LOL!
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Chasing wire is ridiculous and expensive in my opinion. Belden uses six-nines copper. Pure enough for me. Plus, their wire is in broadcast stations across the nation...and world. They set the standard a long time ago.

How can fu-fu wire beat that? Not possible. Further, at the consumer end-of-the-chain, you're a long, long way from the 'original source'. It's been through 10,000 connections, wires, D/A's and A/D's and back again....in other words, through a digital Cuisanart. You're at the tail, tail end of the broadcasting food chain. One, single, interconnect is going to make THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE???

Gimme a break......

I've used both Belden & Canare wire & connectors for decades now. Why? This is what's used in broadcast installations. If it's good enough for them, it's fine by me.

Upgrading your LS's always makes better sense and is money well spent. That's why I've focused my attention on the "last transducer" for so long. It makes all the difference....as you've now proven to yourself & your wife.

Happy Listening!
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
That's why I asked. The guy who owns the customs in the OP mentioned it to me today. I haven't read it, just figured I'd see what your take was on it, now I know, LOL!
wink.gif

Chasing wire is ridiculous and expensive in my opinion. Belden uses six-nines copper. Pure enough for me. Plus, their wire is in broadcast stations across the nation...and world. They set the standard a long time ago.

How can fu-fu wire beat that? Not possible. Further, at the consumer end-of-the-chain, you're a long, long way from the 'original source'. It's been through 10,000 connections, wires, D/A's and A/D's and back again....in other words, through a digital Cuisanart. You're at the tail, tail end of the broadcasting food chain. One, single, interconnect is going to make THAT MUCH DIFFERENCE???

Gimme a break......

I've used both Belden & Canare wire & connectors for decades now. Why? This is what's used in broadcast installations. If it's good enough for them, it's fine by me.

Upgrading your LS's always makes better sense and is money well spent. That's why I've focused my attention on the "last transducer" for so long. It makes all the difference....as you've now proven to yourself & your wife.

Happy Listening!


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BTW, I've managed to get one of those CD's you mentioned earlier, going to play around with it a bit tonight with the laser level. Still need to source that book, I can't find it in Canada but one of the US sites has it for $30.00 so I'll have to snap it up from them and import it.
 
https://solen.ca/product-category/books/

Solen of Canada carries the books. Not sure of the current exchange rate, so you may be able to get a better price in the US.

Which test disc did you buy? After getting familiar with it, play it through the old CVs...you'll be amazed!

You can also read up on Linkwitz' site. Excellent info there.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver

https://solen.ca/product-category/books/

Solen of Canada carries the books. Not sure of the current exchange rate, so you may be able to get a better price in the US.

Which test disc did you buy? After getting familiar with it, play it through the old CVs...you'll be amazed!

You can also read up on Linkwitz' site. Excellent info there.


Ahh, thanks, I checked Amazon and Chapters. I have a Chapters gift card so it was the obvious choice
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I borrowed a disc from the same buddy we were discussing earlier. It is, comically, from Nordost
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He also has an LP one that he said he'll try and find, I believe it is from somebody else.
 
Stereophile's Test CD #3 is just $12 + S/H. I have #2. Also have one from Chesky, one called the Digital Domain, and several HT set-up discs that won't play in my old CD-only players.

I enjoy choral & classical pieces that are well recorded as I grew up singing them. You'll soon discover with your new LD's that recording quality makes all the difference.

It'll break your Heart though when you have to admit that a song your really love is recorded very poorly!! Makes you wonder what the h$ll the 'producer' was doing......
 
This CD consists of a long list of tracks to help you determine placement and then evaluation stuff that runs the gamut from 18Hz to 7,000Hz with some sub tuning tracks. I've discovered that my placement is bang-on (that was nice) however my sub is quite "boomy" with a ton of resonance starting around 40Hz and running up to ~100Hz, where it starts to taper back off.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
... however my sub is quite "boomy" with a ton of resonance starting around 40Hz and running up to ~100Hz, where it starts to taper back off.
It could be in the wrong room location. Move it out of a corner, or 1/3 the length of a wall, then retest. Could also be it's mis-alligned which isn't surprising at all in 4th order (vented) systems. This could also be due to the original woofer being replaced with something incompatible with the box.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
... however my sub is quite "boomy" with a ton of resonance starting around 40Hz and running up to ~100Hz, where it starts to taper back off.
It could be in the wrong room location. Move it out of a corner, or 1/3 the length of a wall, then retest. Could also be it's mis-alligned which isn't surprising at all in 4th order (vented) systems. This could also be due to the original woofer being replaced with something incompatible with the box.



It's not a vented enclosure, it is sealed. However, I will mention that the box is "too big" compared to what Bravox specs for the sub. I could build a custom box I suppose, based on the original specs, which I do believe I have somewhere here. It is an incredible sub, and was a ridiculously expensive driver when new.

Unfortunately, due to my wiring (through the floor) moving it a lot isn't really an option. I can move it around a bit, but I only have so much slack in the speaker cord.
 
I assumed vented as most are. Most response will 'slump' with an oversized sealed box, but it has to be way oversized. Better to oversize than under, as the later will cause response peaks, raise Fs too high and fail to satisfy.

To correct your situation, start adding old books, 2x4's, etc to reduce the box volume then re-evaluate.
 
Originally Posted By: sleddriver


I've used both Belden & Canare wire & connectors for decades now. Why? This is what's used in broadcast installations. If it's good enough for them, it's fine by me.



+1. Almost 20 years ago we still had to route all HD (2400+) video in analog BNC5 and end to end bandwidth was king. I used Canare exclusively and the very best BNC connectors and terminations I could find to route it all. Usually through Extron gear of many sorts up to 64x64 matrix switchers and then out to Barco projectors, monitors, you name it. I never had an issue with Canare in any way shape or form and we pulled that wiring great distances through tight, crooked spaces. Physically and electrically it never failed. Expensive and worth it. With digital we no longer needed that level of bandwidth but that earlier experience builds brand loyalty that won't quit.
 
Yep...Canare makes some great, true 75-Ohm video connectors & quality RCA's. I standardized on them back in the mid-90's, bought their stripper, crimps, etc. Excellent, broadcast-quality product.
 
Audio stuff. I have a few different systems depending on what I am listening to. I have tried many speakers over the years and have ended up with what some would consider to be conflicting ideas.

My main system that is in the family room, goes back and forth between a set of 2-way speakers I built using a SEAS 7" reed-cone mid-bass with a ScanSpeak 1" silk dome tweeter in a bookshelf size Madisound enclosure that has been braced and dampened with a fairly simple crossover. It is based on the old Zaphaudio SR-71 design, with crossover mods to work with the ScanSpeak tweeter that replaced the original SEAS tweeter. These speakers do a really good job in full range duty at reasonable volumes, beyond that, I send everything below 45hz to an old Klipsh powered 12" sub, at which point the complete system will play very cleanly at ear damaging levels. They really sound great for the ~$1K I spent. I occasionally swap those out for a set of SEAS 7" Coax (LOKI) speakers that are great only because of the sound stage you can create with the single point source accuracy. Any moderate level of bass will cause the high frequencies to warble, so they get used with a sub for a while, then put back on the shelf as a novelty, they would be great as a midrange and treble combo combined with a low frequency driver. They are driven by an old (I see a pattern here) Onkyo TX-SR805 HT receiver. It weighs about 45 pounds, which has to be worth something. This system, overall, measures very accurately given the space with which I have to work - with the exception of the bass that comes from the sub, which is why I try to minimize it unless we are watching a movie.


I am very demanding both in sound quality and power. While I like flat response in the living room, in my man cave, I want power and impact and arm hair standing on end. In this room, I like my equipment response to resemble the old 'Loudness EQ' curve, but with a boost in the midrange. My equipment may not sound great to everyone, but it does what I want, and I am frequently impressed by it. In this man cave, my primary sources are my PC (optical to an external DAC), an old Technics turntable, a couple old Akai reel-to-reel machines and (gasp) an FM tuner. I also have a modern DJ turntable and mixing board, but I assume that won't get much love here.

The center of the system is an old Pioneer SX-1250 receiver and an old Adcom GFA 555 mkII amplifier. Both are more brute force than nuance. I rebuilt both from the ground up and both perform very well in practice and in measurement. I have a bunch of jumpers on a board that allows me to switch two sets of speakers between the internal Pioneer amp and the Adcom. 95% of the time I listen using the internal amp, but when I want to dim the lights in the whole house, I use the Adcom. The Pioneer amp sounds great for what it is (a 40 year old, 160 Watts RMS per channel into 8 ohms from 20-20KHz with no more than 0.1 THD amp - unfortunately its 4 ohm performance is only about 200wpc and it quickly goes into protect when you hit 201). When I want more detail, I use a Pass Labs Class A amp, but it heats up the room and I rarely appreciate it.

The speakers I use are old Infinity RS IIIa's that were also rebuilt using NOS parts a number of years ago, along with upgraded crossover components. They are my favorite speakers, even if they are not particularly flat. They are imposing both in sound and in physical presence. They excel below 50hz and above 12khz, assuming your amplifier can supply a fair amount of current. The stuff in the middle is decent as well, but I like the whole package, and I realize that I could have much smaller speakers that sound better. In fact, my living room speakers sound better, but I prefer the overall package of these old speakers in my man cave.

My second set of speakers that I use in the same room, but realistically only a few times a year, are older Infinity QLS-5's. They have great punchy bass that extends down to 18hz with authority, really good midrange and decent high-frequency response. Their biggest flaw in my eyes is that there is a big hole between the response of the Dual Drive Watkins Woofer and the little dome midrange. They sound really good with dance music as well as super dynamic classical music (and classic rock), but if you listen critically, you will notice the hole. The dual voicecoil woofers also drop to about 1.3 ohms (I measured) at low frequencies combined with high volumes, which will kill much equipment, not only with sheer current, but with back-emf and phase angle issues. They also look like they were built in a garage. These had NOS midranges put in about 10 years ago - these are currently pretty much unobtainable now. They have an earlier version of the same EMIT ribbons that Infinity used in everything from mid 70's to mid 80's. You either love them or hate them - I like them a lot, but I don't want to smoke my gear and I don't want to break the woofers. They are so punch for a 12" driver in a sealed box, it is insane.

In car terms, I have a couple of muscle cars, which look great and are loud and obnoxious, but are thrilling to drive (as long as you don't have to stop or turn), and I have some modern, efficient, do everything better, but without the soul speakers. I love them all.

I also have a number of powered Studio Monitors - old blue Mackies and old Behringers. They sound really good at low levels, but fall apart and get shrieky if you turn them up. I use them for front speakers at my PC when I don't want to warm up the place.

If you are still reading, In the other living room, I have a Pioneer SX-1010, also rebuilt from the ground up, with another set of old infinity speakers. Old RS-6001's. They are cool, but they don't have the sonic, or visual impact of the older ones.

In the bedroom I have a set of Infinity Beta 50's that I can't really say anything good about. The grills rattle, the bass is weak, the treble is kind of harsh.

I don't have a brand bias for old infinity stuff, I've tried everything, and they just sound the way I like. I've bought and sold various Focal systems, B&W, DLS Sweden, but never saw the halo surrounding them for the price when it seemed I could build something that was 90% as good for a fraction of the price. I believe the ScanSpeak and Seas drivers are top notch, and if you can get the enclosure and crossover correct, you will have something that is better than your room will allow. With the exception of my man cave, which is all sound absorbing, lacking only in bass traps.

In my car, I have all (old German) Class A/B amps with T0-3 outputs. My front ScanSpeak tweeters have 50x2 available to them, my front door midbasses (SEAS Excel) have 200x2. My rear fill speakers, DLS Iridiums, have 100x2 and my single sealed 12" JL 12w6v3 has an amp that can supply ~ 700 watts of full range A/B goodness. Most of the time, I use less than 10% of this, but it is nice to be able to tune out the whole world.

So, yes, I lead a very contradictory life, audio wise.
 
SEAS, Scan-Speak, Vifa, Dynaudio, Morel, Focal, Eton...99% have never heard of them. That's a shame. Starting any design with a high-quality driver (forgot Peerless), makes all the difference.

D'Appolito used SEAS for his THOR project. Linkwitz also uses them exclusively for his designs. That says a lot. I'm currently using a SEAS MTM (ODIN). Remarkable....
 
.I am almost totally deaf in my left ear from the habits I had in the late 60s thru late 70s. Way way too much loud music, plus headphone use and too many "blow your ears out" rock concerts from some of the loudest bands on earth.... Emerson Lake & Palmer / Pink Floyd / YES / Humble Pie / Foghat / Uriah Heep / Deep Purple and on and on... even the ear shattering Grand Funk Railraod. Even the country music concerts we went to thru the early 2000s were way loud. I have always owned BOSE and then JBL speakers and played them way too loud at home also. My cars all have had BOSE speakers from back when I used to install car stereo systems part time. Friends had the major BOSE 901s that seemed so loud they could move a house.
 
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