Speakers - what and why

[BeerCan]

I have 3 sets of speakers right now that I really like. Shahinian Compass -- I use these in my music room for low level listening. They really fill the room with sound but are lacking in bass. If they were my main speakers they would need a sub integrated and leveled. Tannoy Kensington GR -- My living room speakers. What can I say, big, beautiful and they sound wonderful. They excel at the music I listen to in this room. They lack a little punch but more than make up for it in their overall presentation. I will probably own these until I die. Focal Electra 1038 Be2 -- I use these in my den and I listen to these the most. They need a large room and proper placement to shine. Luckily, my den is the largest room in the house. They sound wonderful to me and pair nicely with my big Luxman amp.

 

[NGRhodes]

I've got measuring equipment that is +-1db accurate and all those lovely smooth response speakers high end speaker are often destroyed in the average home room - it is easy to waste money on speakers that are far better than the room allows. I strive for a flat response as my speakers are used as much for music as movies, but the main thing is to get a setup that sounds right for yourself and you enjoy, some people prefer the sound from far from perfect speakers.

 

[Y_K]

Originally Posted By: NGRhodes

...all those lovely smooth response speakers high end speaker are often destroyed in the average home room - it is easy to waste money on speakers that are far better than the room allows.

Very true. I gave a buddy a pair of cheap Yamaha NS-series bookshelf speakers that we placed in his garage. Hooked to a 35 year old consumer grade JVC receiver from Silo. Cheap stuff. Sounds like a Gothic cathedral; gracious echo degradation does it all... Great ceiling height to cubic meter volume ratios there, nice truss and beam constellation above, etc. What's interesting is that we lose hearing with age, our frequency range sensitivity charts are horrible, but we get the difference between poor and great sound even better than before. OP, you could add used Vandersteen speakers to the list. In my area those can be found cheaply. Just keep in mind that sound quality and WAF are reciprocal, especially in time/phase aligned designs. WAF = Wife Approval Factor

 

[OVERKILL]

My wife and I went and listened to a set of Paradigm Monitor 11's tonight, which are very reasonably priced (around 2K for a pair) and she was trying to get me to buy them on the spot, she thought they sounded so much better than what we have, LOL! In the same room, same amp, compared to a number of other offerings, these really shined. Full, clear sound with fantastic range.

 

[CT8]

Beauty is in the ear of the beholder. I liked a combination of ESS AMT 1 speakers and a set of Bose 901 speakers cranked up .

 

[Rolla07]

I wouldn't consider myself an audiophile, although I like to think I have good enough hearing to discern different speakers. I currently am running a 7.1 Pioneer setup, nothing high end or fancy. This set: https://www.cnet.com/products/pioneer-sp-pk52fs/ with 4 towers, 2 bookshelf speakers and the center channel speaker connected to a Pioneer 7.2 receiver. I do not plan on spending alot for good sound, but did get some Monoprice 12 gauge wiring and the sound seems quite good, considering its likely thought of as a low end system. I would add a 2nd subwoofer as the 1st one at only 100 watts not sufficient for the space i have it in. I would definitely spend the money on a much higher end center channel speaker to go with my current speakers. Those would be the only upgrades I would make, unless I win the lottery in which different choices would be made. My main room TV, I bought some cheap Monoprice 108247 5.1 setup with their 16 gauge cable and upgraded the center channel with a Fluance unit (much bigger) which I got for cheap. I would love me some B & S speakers.. but.. too many other things to spend money on! I think today, there are alot of lower end options with very good sound quality. Also, I must add that both speaker placement, and subwoofer placement can have a huge impact on overall sound, so 2 identical systems setup differently have the ability of sounding like completely different systems based on placement, and configuration/ sound settings.

 

[MCompact]

On the subject of cabling, I use Blue Jeans Cable almost exclusively. Excellent quality and reasonable pricing.

 

[sleddriver]

OK:

• You're welcome! .
• Different mikes. Yours plugs into your receiver for phase + freq. info. The mic I use is calibrated, covers 20Hz - >20kHz and is used to measure drivers & LS's with an acoustic analyzer such as MLSSA or CLIO. I use the later. Point is: Very different animal and different uses. .
• "Tower" LS's became popular as a way to extend LF response, integrate multiple LF drivers into the same cabinet & place the tweeters at sitting ear level while meeting the SAF. All wins. ALL smaller LS's need to be on stands to bring the tweeters to sitting ear level to achieve best sound for critical listening & movie watching. Period. Even small, inexpensive LS's placed on stands swung in a 7' arc or so from your sitting position will amaze you. Try it as an experiment. Then put them in a bookshelf further apart and farther away and listen to what happens. (I'll leave all in suspense.....) .
• Somewhere I have a link or two for articles written by Joe D'Appolito. You can buy his book "Measuring Loudspeakers" but read it AFTER Alden & Dickason. Very technical but also practical on the hows & whys. Also excellent description on just how spectrum analyzers like MLSSA work plus why some measurements are done in the time-domain and others in the frequency-domain. Of course, the relation between these two is the Fourier Transform. With modern, fast computers + lots of DRAM, we can do the Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) in a Flash.... .
• Regarding what I'm using.....nothing consumer, nor commercial. No brand names. Brand name drivers are used however like FOCAL, Dynaudio, Scan-Speak, SEAS, and VIFA. XO work was done by both D'Appolito, George Short, and by the driver manufacturers. Most designs are also MTM's (mid-woofer, tweeter, mid-woofer) because of the additional 6dB efficiency, more bass extension, and very smooth, broad, uniform horizontal dispersion characteristics and limited vertical polar response. This design was the hallmark of D'Appolito's original AES paper. .
• The first two octaves of bass are reinforced by a pair of 12" drivers in a 6th order alignment (4th order + 2nd order active eq.) per side. Result is deep bass extension is no issue...at all. The cabinets are 3/4" (19mm) industrial particle board + 1/4" ~ 6mm oak veneered plywood, laminated together with marine epoxy. Interior is well braced with 3/4" (baltic birch) BB plywood braces and lined with 2" dense ductboard. Both magnets are also brace supported to ground any mechanical vibrations. The box resonant freq. has been measured and tuned for optimum performance. The custom active EQ filter has also been precisely tuned to match the box, thus all is in alignment and 'tweaked-in'. This is very critical in 6th order systems and highly important in 4th order. .
• I posted on BITOG my refurb of the HK Citation 7 surround-sound processor/pre-amp. I think you responded? I also posted some photos of the refurb of the cherry veneered LS I built myself. The baffle on that one is 2-1/4" (57mm) laminated industrial MDF + BB plywood. This is to maintain rigidity as large areas are cutout for the drivers. Check out those photos to see just how thick that is..... .
• This system is bi-amped due to the active XO/filter by necessity. This also reduces overall IMD & THD in both the amps and LS's themselves.

 

[sleddriver]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

My wife and I went and listened to a set of Paradigm Monitor 11's tonight, which are very reasonably priced (around 2K for a pair) and she was trying to get me to buy them on the spot, she thought they sounded so much better than what we have, LOL!

Yep...I'll bet. Light-years ahead. Paradigm has had an excellent reputation previously. Not sure who owns the company now nor what their products sound like.

 

[KitaCam]

Dynaco A25 speakers were recommended to me by an opera singer who said that they were great for mid-range, esp. for vocals....I've been satisfied with them ever since...1970. I've backed them up with a sub-woofer, currently a small Klipsch that's a nice complement to them.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: sleddriver

OK:

• You're welcome! .
• Different mikes. Yours plugs into your receiver for phase + freq. info. The mic I use is calibrated, covers 20Hz - >20kHz and is used to measure drivers & LS's with an acoustic analyzer such as MLSSA or CLIO. I use the later. Point is: Very different animal and different uses. .
• "Tower" LS's became popular as a way to extend LF response, integrate multiple LF drivers into the same cabinet & place the tweeters at sitting ear level while meeting the SAF. All wins. ALL smaller LS's need to be on stands to bring the tweeters to sitting ear level to achieve best sound for critical listening & movie watching. Period. Even small, inexpensive LS's placed on stands swung in a 7' arc or so from your sitting position will amaze you. Try it as an experiment. Then put them in a bookshelf further apart and farther away and listen to what happens. (I'll leave all in suspense.....) .
• Somewhere I have a link or two for articles written by Joe D'Appolito. You can buy his book "Measuring Loudspeakers" but read it AFTER Alden & Dickason. Very technical but also practical on the hows & whys. Also excellent description on just how spectrum analyzers like MLSSA work plus why some measurements are done in the time-domain and others in the frequency-domain. Of course, the relation between these two is the Fourier Transform. With modern, fast computers + lots of DRAM, we can do the Fast Fourier Transform (FFT) in a Flash.... .
• Regarding what I'm using.....nothing consumer, nor commercial. No brand names. Brand name drivers are used however like FOCAL, Dynaudio, Scan-Speak, SEAS, and VIFA. XO work was done by both D'Appolito, George Short, and by the driver manufacturers. Most designs are also MTM's (mid-woofer, tweeter, mid-woofer) because of the additional 6dB efficiency, more bass extension, and very smooth, broad, uniform horizontal dispersion characteristics and limited vertical polar response. This design was the hallmark of D'Appolito's original AES paper. .
• The first two octaves of bass are reinforced by a pair of 12" drivers in a 6th order alignment (4th order + 2nd order active eq.) per side. Result is deep bass extension is no issue...at all. The cabinets are 3/4" (19mm) industrial particle board + 1/4" ~ 6mm oak veneered plywood, laminated together with marine epoxy. Interior is well braced with 3/4" (baltic birch) BB plywood braces and lined with 2" dense ductboard. Both magnets are also brace supported to ground any mechanical vibrations. The box resonant freq. has been measured and tuned for optimum performance. The custom active EQ filter has also been precisely tuned to match the box, thus all is in alignment and 'tweaked-in'. This is very critical in 6th order systems and highly important in 4th order. .
• I posted on BITOG my refurb of the HK Citation 7 surround-sound processor/pre-amp. I think you responded? I also posted some photos of the refurb of the cherry veneered LS I built myself. The baffle on that one is 2-1/4" (57mm) laminated industrial MDF + BB plywood. This is to maintain rigidity as large areas are cutout for the drivers. Check out those photos to see just how thick that is..... .
• This system is bi-amped due to the active XO/filter by necessity. This also reduces overall IMD & THD in both the amps and LS's themselves.

Great post as usual, thanks for that! And yes, I remember the HK Citation rebuild well, but I was curious about what else you had in the mix, so thanks for sharing

 

[beanoil]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: dave123

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

Originally Posted By: dave123

Salk Sound best speaker for money.

Like these? http://www.salksound.com/model.php?model=Exotica+3 Seem to actually be deal! They are less expensive than the current B&W 802 models by a significant margin.

if that serious and spending that big of coin best to talk to the owner Jim as he will direct you in right direction you will not go wrong ever buying a pair of speakers from him I will say many going that big will go with the Soundscape series Jim Will do about anything if you have a pocketbook and time but value is unbelievably good Audio Circle site you can find much more about that.

I'm not in the market for something in that price range, I was speaking more generally in terms of value relative to something like an 802 Sorry for any confusion. Personally, I've been looking at some B&W used stuff, there was a set of 704's that really caught my eye and were around the $1,200 range, which is reasonable. This thread isn't about what I'd buy personally, I'm more interested in what other people have or would choose for the scenario I outlined in the OP. The fact that it can be so personal and that everybody weighs things differently makes it a good discussion IMHO.

Bang for buck? Quite possible the Tekton line. Pendragons are very nice, especially for the price.

 

[Toy4x4]

I bought a pair of Paradigm 9SEs (now Monitor 9s) for the price of the 7SEs. It was their last pair and I guess they wanted the space for the new ones. This was 18+ years ago and I matched up the centers and rears also with Paradigm. I have a Yamaha 2095 powering them and have been very happy with this setup. I've had people think I'm running a sub somewhere when watching movies! This was when Paradigm was receiving rave reviews for great sound for the price. As sleddriver mentioned, don't know about nowadays. MBQuart used be a great speaker for car audio, but have heard they were bought out and went downhill. True? Seems to happen often, though. I took in some CDs to give them a listen. Made sure they had them running JUST through a comparable receiver and just...listened. Quality sound becomes, I think, a bit on the subjective side. If you REALLY like the way a set sounds (after REALLY listening), the way they sound becomes the norm. This has been what I experienced with my 9SEs. I know when I play something through them I'll enjoy it.

 

[Cujet]

I have Polk RTi-A9 tower speakers. 3ea. 7 inch woofers, 2ea. 5.25 inch midrange and a single dome tweeter. I'd like to say "I love em" but they are at best, "OK". The sound is clean, but they have no bass, and zero punch. I am picky, and I know what I like when it comes to speakers. I tend not to like the sound of ported speakers and these are ported. I prefer sealed systems. I simply could not find a set of floor standing speakers that I liked, and could afford. So the RTi-A9 was the best choice. I added a Sunfire HRS12 sealed subwoofer and I finally have some clean bass. Overall, the combo is acceptable, and will rock-out when necessary. I listen to Rock, Hard Rock, Grunge and Modern Rock. From Floyd to Tool, to Ghost and Chevelle. I like to rock out! This is the exact setup I have. Good, but not good enough.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Cujet

I have Polk RTi-A9 tower speakers. 3ea. 7 inch woofers, 2ea. 5.25 inch midrange and a single dome tweeter. I'd like to say "I love em" but they are at best, "OK". The sound is clean, but they have no bass, and zero punch.

Not sure if it was this model specifically, but I remember reading that some of these large Polk towers are extremely difficult to drive. Impedance can drop as low as 2 Ohm at certain lower end frequencies, and most amps will struggle with this. What amp are you driving them with?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Reverberate what Q.P just said! Yeah, you need a juicy good amp, good wires,proper ground schemes to get a nice low end. Then placement of course. to the OP, 2G for speakers is a lot of dough for marginal mid fi. Worth 1/2 price the minute you walk out. Yeah, this from a guy who lost over $20Gs looking for audio nirvana in the 80's

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: OVERKILL

My wife and I went and listened to a set of Paradigm Monitor 11's tonight,

How is the cabinet quality on Monitors these days?

 

[ARCOgraphite]

IIRC there is a near fatal colouration casued by vertical axis wave termination issue with floorstanders when the baffle extends to the floor. Better off with bookshelf boxes on stands? Disregarding THAT, I've heard some Totems that were voiced well.

 

[Win]

I ran a signal generator into an amp, then into a test speaker, watched the amp output on a scope to make sure it remained constant, and my ears have a brick wall response at 14.75 KHz. Considering my age, multiple Who concerts in their hay day, aviation, and small arms, I'm pretty pleased with that. I didn't test my low frequency response. Anything above 10 KHz is so darn shrill, I wouldn't want to hear it. I prefer extremely high sensitivity speakers; I use Klipsch because for the last decade I have been on a tangent of building low powered amplifiers, but people hear things differently.

 

[Cujet]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete

Originally Posted By: Cujet

I have Polk RTi-A9 tower speakers. 3ea. 7 inch woofers, 2ea. 5.25 inch midrange and a single dome tweeter. I'd like to say "I love em" but they are at best, "OK". The sound is clean, but they have no bass, and zero punch.

Not sure if it was this model specifically, but I remember reading that some of these large Polk towers are extremely difficult to drive. Impedance can drop as low as 2 Ohm at certain lower end frequencies, and most amps will struggle with this. What amp are you driving them with?

Currently using my Yamaha 120WPC old 4ohm capable receiver. I also have a number of Crestron amps and a an older Adcom amp. Makes no difference what so ever. The Yamaha receiver is rather robust, that's why I keep using it.