!@#$ spark plug doen't want to come out!!!

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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?
grin.gif


Seriously though, I think the socket is not even engaging the plug. I think OP is bottoming out the rubber grommet on the spark plug end, but the socket is too short to grab the head. T


me ! i never use neversieze, because i change out often , so no need for neversieze ,some peoples wait til 100k miles to change, that when the plug is glue to the head, most ford engine having these plug glue to the head.
 
Originally Posted By: MetalSlug
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?
grin.gif


Seriously though, I think the socket is not even engaging the plug. I think OP is bottoming out the rubber grommet on the spark plug end, but the socket is too short to grab the head. T


me ! i never use neversieze, because i change out often , so no need for neversieze ,some peoples wait til 100k miles to change, that when the plug is glue to the head, most ford engine having these plug glue to the head.


So what happens to the yuppie I sell the car to? He doesn't have a clue what spark plugs even do let alone know they have to be changed. He has to pay the price of me being to lazy to put a dab of anti seize on it?

Its just a good practice that saves many hours of frustration and lots of money. If you've ever bought a used car and have one snap off in the back of the head you know exactly what I'm talking about.
 
-You could have part of the pllug wire stuck in there. The metal terminal could be stuck on the end of the spark plug (you can pull it off with needle nose pliers) or the rubber bit at the end of the wire could be stuck down by the hex on the plug. If you don't see it on the wire, look at the plug with a flashlight and dig the rubber out.

-Even if plug wire appears undamaged there is a possibility that a part of some other long removed plug wire is down there. This can happen as a result of some sort of "you do what you gotta do" situation getting the car to run on all four after a severe overheat that melted a plug wire boot. Look very carefully.

-The metal part of the spark plug may have a circular crack going all the way around between the hex and the threaded part of the plug. This is very common on Motorcratf HT plugs in the Ford 3-valve engines, but it happens to other plugs also. I had 3 12 year old Champions break off in just that way in a Dodge 5.2L. To check this, get some highly visible colored liquid such as paint or loctite. Place the end of a thin stick such as a skewer or stiff wire or stirrer against the tip of the plug. Dribble some liquid on the stick and let it run down the stick and the spark plug all the way to the hex, but don't use enough for it to puddle. Use your spark plug socket to turn the hex half way around. Look and see if the hex actually turned and if the porcelain also turned the same arc. Let us know. If only the hex turned it's broken but there are ways to get it out.

-If there is a possibility someone other than yourself installed that set of plugs then there is a possibility you're dealing with some sort of thread insert that's not working as designed. This can get very ugly if you aren't lucky.
 
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TO: KrisZ i just got flamed two days ago for saying the same thing. i guess being 63 dont mean anything. "change out often" that makes NO sense.
 
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Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?

No worries they will show up with the same old song and dance.


Maybe someone used the wrong anti-seize!. And it baked the plug into the head. Making it better to have not used the anti-sieze. JK kinda.
 
On plugs that have been in an engine for a long time it's best to tighten them a tad and then loosen just a bit then go back and forth to break the carbon off the end of the threads. On aluminum heads always work on them cold and use antiseize. I have used these methods for over 35 years on motorcycles. I have yet to strip threads.
 
Worrying about anti-seize allowing the plugs to back out is no fun. My solution is to lube the threads with new engine oil and look at the spark plug. Consider how many turns of thread you have, what head material you have, and if you're sealing against a tapered seat or flat with a crushable gasket. Tighten the plug (torque for flat with crushable gasket or degree for taper) to your own gut instinct of reasonable. Reasonable should be at least tight enough that it won't back out but not so tight as to damage threads or to break off when you try to remove it years down the road. If it's a high performance engine replace the plugs frequently. If not high performance but it's got plugs right by the exhaust manifold replace them frequently as well.
 
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Worrying about anti-seize allowing the plugs to back out is no fun...Reasonable should be at least tight enough that it won't back out but not so tight as to damage threads or to break off when you try to remove it years down the road.


No wonder you're worried, but it will not be the antisieze that will cause your plugs to back out, I guarantee this. It will be your tightening method
wink.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: yonyon
Worrying about anti-seize allowing the plugs to back out is no fun...Reasonable should be at least tight enough that it won't back out but not so tight as to damage threads or to break off when you try to remove it years down the road.


No wonder you're worried, but it will not be the antisieze that will cause your plugs to back out, I guarantee this. It will be your tightening method
wink.gif



It hasn't happened yet. I'm pretty sure they're always at least somewhat overtight compared to manufacturer's recommendations. I've never had difficulty getting one that I put in this way back out either though. "Tight enough" has worked well.
 
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Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?
grin.gif




Here I am:

Don't use antiseize on sparkplugs. They are manufactured with a special antiseize plating.

From AC Delco:
Quote:
Do not use any type of anti-seize compound on spark plug threads. Doing this will decrease the amount of friction between the threads. The result of the lowered friction is that when the spark plug is torqued to the proper specification, the spark plug is turned too far into the cylinder head. This increases the likelihood of pulling or stripping the threads in the cylinder head. Over-tightening of a spark plug can cause stretching of the spark plug shell and could allow blowby to pass through the gasket seal between the shell and insulator. Over-tightening also results in extremely difficult removal.

From Autolite:
Quote:
We do not recommend the use of any anti seize products for installing spark plugs. Antiseize compounds are typically composed of metallic, electrically conductive ingredients. If antiseize compounds come in contact with the core nose of the plugs, it can lead to a misfire condition. Antiseize compounds can also have a torque multiplying effect when installing plugs. This can lead to thread distortion and thread galling resulting in cylinder head damage. Autolite spark plugs are nickel plated to resist the effects of corrosion and seizing. However, plug seizure is aggravated further when steel plugs are installed into aluminum cylinder heads for a long period of time. You may want to consider the periodic inspection of the plugs to reduce the likelihood of plug seizure during extended plug service intervals.

From NGK:
Quote

The use of anti-seize on spark plugs is only recommended on those brands that
do not offer a special metal shell plating. Spark plugs that have a shiny silver
appearance on the metal body usually indicate that the spark plug is
manufactured with special metal shell plating.

http://www.ngkplugpro.ca/content/contentfiles/pdf/NGKSP-0907-1R-Anti-SeizeonSparkPlugs.pdf

From Champion:
Quote:
Champion recommends that you do not use an anti-seize compound, since one has already been applied to the plugs at the factory.
 
Originally Posted By: mva
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
So, where are the guys that say not to use antisieze?
grin.gif




Here I am:

Don't use antiseize on sparkplugs. They are manufactured with a special antiseize plating.

From Autolite:
Quote:
Autolite spark plugs are nickel plated to resist the effects of corrosion and seizing. However, plug seizure is aggravated further when steel plugs are installed into aluminum cylinder heads for a long period of time. You may want to consider the periodic inspection of the plugs to reduce the likelihood of plug seizure during extended plug service intervals.


And this is what I said in the other thread:
"Yep, no need for antisieze but the plugs may seize up despite all those fancy coatings. Why can't people realize that these statements are written to protect manufacturers from misuse of antisieze and have their best interest in mind."

Real life experience leans heavily towards antisieze use, not statements from spark plug manufacturers that were written by their legal department.
 
It is a fact that the use of antiseize can greatly increase the force on the threads at a given torque.

This high force can damage threads or make the plug very difficult to remove.

This is why manufacturers don't recommend it's use.

If you insist on using it then I recommend that you tighten the plugs based on the recommended angle rather than by "feel" or with a torque wrench.
 
Originally Posted By: mva
It is a fact that the use of antiseize can greatly increase the force on the threads at a given torque.

This high force can damage threads or make the plug very difficult to remove.

This is why manufacturers don't recommend it's use.

If you insist on using it then I recommend that you tighten the plugs based on the recommended angle rather than by "feel" or with a torque wrench.


You don't need to preach the pitfalls of antisieze to me, because misuse can happen to anything. People can confuse ft-lbs with in-lbs, should we stop using torque wrenches? People put grease on their brake rotors to stop them from squealing, should we stop using grease?

The point I'm trying to make is that people can do a lot of stupid things from lack of experience or just shear idiocy, but that does not mean that we should align ourselves or our way of thinking with the lowest common denominator.
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: mva
It is a fact that the use of antiseize can greatly increase the force on the threads at a given torque.

This high force can damage threads or make the plug very difficult to remove.

This is why manufacturers don't recommend it's use.

If you insist on using it then I recommend that you tighten the plugs based on the recommended angle rather than by "feel" or with a torque wrench.


You don't need to preach the pitfalls of antisieze to me, because misuse can happen to anything. People can confuse ft-lbs with in-lbs, should we stop using torque wrenches? People put grease on their brake rotors to stop them from squealing, should we stop using grease?

The point I'm trying to make is that people can do a lot of stupid things from lack of experience or just shear idiocy, but that does not mean that we should align ourselves or our way of thinking with the lowest common denominator.


this is pretty simple. The use of antiseize can increase the force the on the treads by up to double at a given torque.
 
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