SP-III ATF

[koreancar]

hello to all...newbie here.

Would like some advice or opinions on the subject of sp-III atf.

I hear that sp-III is actually a dexron-III with a friction modifier. True or False ?

Is it okay to add Lubegard 'black' into dexron-III to produce a sp-III compatible. I've read in some forums that doing this actually produces a combination better than sp-III.

Just wondering if any hyundai owners have used dexron-III with Lubegard 'black' with no problems.

 

[Ray H]

I don't know how many Hyundai owners have used Dexron III and Lubegard "black" with no problems, but several who've done so and posted on an Edmunds Sonata forum have had expensive premature transaxle failures. SP III is a Mitsubishi ATF and is NOT Dexron-III with FMs. SP III uses a syn-blend (Group II and Group III) of base oils, detergents, anti-foam agents, and proprietary Mitsubishi FMs. Dexron-III uses Group I and Group II base oils, detergents, anti-foam agents, and GM-approved FMs. Most transmission manufacturers used to qualify Dexron ATFs as a compatible alternative. That's largely no longer the case. Hyundai US will not honor a transaxle warranty claim if their inspection of a failed transaxle uncovers use of a non-approved ATF or any aftermarket transmission fluid supplement. I doubt use of non-SP III ATF up to a pint for top-up would cause problems, but for a general drain and refill service, it's probably wiser to stick to Hyundai's recommendations. Since Mitsubishi holds the exclusive license for SP III (and issued a sublicense to Hyundai to contract with their own supplier(s) in Korea and other countries), the only viable sources are Hyundai, KIA, and Mitsubishi dealers. (Not at all scientific, but the shape of the quart bottle of US SP III I bought for top-up shortly after buying my '03 Sonata suggests ConocoPhillips may be Hyundai's blender over here.)

[ October 11, 2005, 02:09 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]

 

[MolaKule]

And do you believe that Hyundai/Misubishi will do an $800 NMR analysis to prove your fluid is not theirs?

There are only certain and specific FM chemistries that will work in certain AT transmissions.

Were the causes of premature transaxle failures traced specifically to fluid effects?

Companion thread:

http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=16&t=002313

 

[Ray H]

What I believe is irrelevant. I'm only passing information along that I read from a Hyundai TSB on Hyundai WebTech. The three Edmunds posters I mentioned claim they had their warranty claims denied. None of the transaxles (according to their owners) had more than 75,000 miles or were older than five years, so they were well within the powertrain warranty if the posters were accurately reporting their accounts. The Hyundai TSB I referenced specifically instructs dealership personnel to ship the cores without first draining the fluid. (Just out of curiosity, if you were Hyundai and were weighing the prospect of a transmission exchange and labor claim against an $800.00 NMR, what would your decision be? If you make the right choice, you're the wholesale cost of the rebuilt unit and labor in the black minus the cost of the NMR. If you're wrong, you're the wholesale cost of the rebuilt unit, labor, and the NMR in the red. If you just go ahead and allow the claim, you're automatically the wholesale cost of the rebuilt unit and labor in the red. Hyundai does operate a centralized automatic transmission rebuild faciltiy in the U.S. (Anything requiring opening the split transmission case automatically takes a trip to Illinois.) Given the anticipated volume of repair work, warranty and otherwise, would it be at all likely that they might have their own fluid analysis facility on premesis, too, for flagged warranty claims?)

 

[MolaKule]

They may have a basic FTIR system on site or close by or on contract, but I doubt they have the capability to thoroughly test the fluid for the proper markers.

 

[Ray H]

Given your contacts in your field of expertise, I bet you could find out.

 

[Winston]

Well there is the "don't mess with Mitsu/Kia/Hyundai" crowd and then there is everyone else. (I am in the first group, since the Mitsu fluid seems pretty good since it is a synthetic blend.) However, if you don't want to use them you could try;

Pennzoil Multi-vehicle ATF which they say is OK for All Mitsu/hundai/KIA.

Amsoil multi-vehicle ATF which they say is OK for SP III vehicles.

Then of course there is Mola's special fluid.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

Winston:

Well there is the "don't mess with Mitsu/Kia/Hyundai" crowd and then there is everyone else. (I am in the first group, since the Mitsu fluid seems pretty good since it is a synthetic blend.) ....

---

Once it's out of warranty, I'd be a lot braver.

Until then, British engineering (it looks good on paper, build it) isn't something I want to try when I can buy a whole tranmission full of SP III for $30.


.

 

[MolaKule]

There is a simple answer to the underlying question:

If you think there is a chance your warranty MIGHT be voided OR if you are uncomfortable with a third party lube, then DON'T BUY IT!

Continue with the factory fluid (unforntunately high priced) until the warranty runs out.

If I am not comfortable with an additive or suspect that it might have antagonistic effects, rather than synergistic effects, I will not use it.

 

[Propflux01]

But MoleKule...That goes totally against the BITOG train of thought! After all, the OEM stuff is always sub-par, and we all know they are just overpricing thier crap just to get one over on us!!


But seriously, you are right, but It would be nice to be able to use something (probably) better and not have to worry about warrenty issues...

 

[Trex101]

Schaeffer 204S-AT are SPIII spec too. Are you able to get Schaeffer's in malaysia?

204S-AT

 

[koreancar]

i don't believe schaeffer is available in m'sia, not that i'm aware of.
i'm a bit doubtful with these claims that it can be used on so many different applications.
i mean, just comparing dexron-III and sp-III, both already have different frictional properties if i had understood the posts i've read. so, how can 1 lubricant satisfy both ?

 

[bruce381]

"

Originally posted by MolaKule:
[QB] And do you believe that Hyundai/Misubishi will do an $800 NMR analysis to prove your fluid is not theirs?"

There are avalible product "Tagants" that can be read with hand used disposible "test kits" aswell as IR and Spectro they are made to identify brands of oil that have or may have product
co-mingling or substitution for warrantty.

Testing for the markers is cheap at most cost of IR test about $35.

Try united color for this stuff.

bruce

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

bruce381:

There are avalible product "Tagants" that can be read with hand used disposible "test kits" aswell as IR and Spectro they are made to identify brands of oil that have or may have product co-mingling or substitution for warrantty.

---

That's my concern exactly.

There are tracers that can be added to fluids that make detecting dilution much simpler than doing an $800 analysis.


.

 

[Ray H]

quote:

---

Originally posted by bruce381:
...Testing for the markers is cheap at most cost of IR test about $35...

---

Which in turn begs the question, what would the actual cost to Hyundai be if bought in bulk lots?

 

[bruce381]

not saying they Hyundai use tagants but they are out there
as the cop show said "be careful out there"

Bruce