http://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos1-brands ...the Dexos scam is coming to a store near you. All non GM owners get the privilege of making a cash donation to Government Motors.
Son of Dexos coming 2015
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Originally Posted By: MKZman
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: MKZman
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
I think it's made by XM? Same shaped bottles at least..
Originally Posted By: MKZman
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
I think it's made by XM? Same shaped bottles at least..
Originally Posted By: larry007
http://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos1-brands ...the Dexos scam is coming to a store near you. All non GM owners get the privilege of making a cash donation to Government Motors.
ILMA letter to CQA
There is concern among the smaller lubricant manufacturers that bypassing the existing ILSAC and API mechanisms is going to create problems for all but the majors. There is another letter from ILMA to Eric Johnson at GM dated November 16, 2009, laying out those concerns out which I can't find at the moment.
It was the ILMA's threat to sue Chrysler over non-licensing ATF+4 that lead to both a licensing program and the "Center for Quality Assurance".
ILMA represents companies like Amalie Oil Company, AMSOIL, Chemlube, Clark, Eastern Oil Company, Lubricating Specialties, Lucas Oil Products, Pinnacle Oil, Primrose Oil Company, Rosemead Oil Products, Schaeffer Manufacturing Company, Texas Refinery Corporation, Valvoline, and a host of others.
http://www.centerforqa.com/gm/dexos1-brands ...the Dexos scam is coming to a store near you. All non GM owners get the privilege of making a cash donation to Government Motors.
ILMA letter to CQA
There is concern among the smaller lubricant manufacturers that bypassing the existing ILSAC and API mechanisms is going to create problems for all but the majors. There is another letter from ILMA to Eric Johnson at GM dated November 16, 2009, laying out those concerns out which I can't find at the moment.
It was the ILMA's threat to sue Chrysler over non-licensing ATF+4 that lead to both a licensing program and the "Center for Quality Assurance".
ILMA represents companies like Amalie Oil Company, AMSOIL, Chemlube, Clark, Eastern Oil Company, Lubricating Specialties, Lucas Oil Products, Pinnacle Oil, Primrose Oil Company, Rosemead Oil Products, Schaeffer Manufacturing Company, Texas Refinery Corporation, Valvoline, and a host of others.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
They don't, though. You can use any dexos1 certified oil. There are very many. You can also choose to use whatever else you want and rely on the MMA and your lawyer to save your bacon.
Additionally, the Europeans use their own proprietary specs all the time, and have for many, many years. They are considerably more robust than the API specs here. Would you and the smaller blenders have preferred if GM specified an A1/B1 A5/B5 lubricant instead? The only regular, on the shelf oil that I know of that continually keep current with those particular ACEA specifications are M1 and Syntec.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
They don't, though. You can use any dexos1 certified oil. There are very many. You can also choose to use whatever else you want and rely on the MMA and your lawyer to save your bacon.
Additionally, the Europeans use their own proprietary specs all the time, and have for many, many years. They are considerably more robust than the API specs here. Would you and the smaller blenders have preferred if GM specified an A1/B1 A5/B5 lubricant instead? The only regular, on the shelf oil that I know of that continually keep current with those particular ACEA specifications are M1 and Syntec.
Smaller blenders can rely on the "meets or exceeds", or "recommended for applications requiring xxx" just like they always do.
Even when specs are published, and their oils clearly don't meet the specs, they still make the claims...and have loads of customers.
Even when specs are published, and their oils clearly don't meet the specs, they still make the claims...and have loads of customers.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
Originally Posted By: MKZman
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
True but to clarify it a bit. Only if they are the only company that oil is available from and no one else produces or sells it.
Originally Posted By: MKZman
Do they sell their own branded oil like Motorcraft? They can require Dexos for warranty and sell oil.
Yes, there is GM oil. Yes, it is Dexos qualified.
However, if they require GM oil only for warranty purposes, they have to give it away to people with cars under warranty.
True but to clarify it a bit. Only if they are the only company that oil is available from and no one else produces or sells it.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Would you and the smaller blenders have preferred if GM specified an A1/B1 A5/B5 lubricant instead? The only regular, on the shelf oil that I know of that continually keep current with those particular ACEA specifications are M1 and Syntec.
I think GM needs to play nice in the sandbox with both lubricant suppliers and customers.
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
Would you and the smaller blenders have preferred if GM specified an A1/B1 A5/B5 lubricant instead? The only regular, on the shelf oil that I know of that continually keep current with those particular ACEA specifications are M1 and Syntec.
I think GM needs to play nice in the sandbox with both lubricant suppliers and customers.
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
I think GM needs to play nice in the sandbox with both lubricant suppliers and customers.
That is what they're trying to do, at least on the face of it. A nice, big, easy to identify logo is playing nice with the consumer. Printing A1/B1 A5/B5 in the manual (like they had done in other parts of the world) would merely please XOM and BP and confuse the heck out of the average person.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
There aren't many automakers who haven't experimented with lifetime fills of one sort or another. As for DexCool, you can't swing a dead cat in the coolant aisle without hitting a bottle of the stuff to this day. It's usage is growing, not shrinking.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
We all know what Dexos really is and that is a money making ploy for GM.
Well, you know that they can't make any money off of selling automobiles.
I think GM needs to play nice in the sandbox with both lubricant suppliers and customers.
That is what they're trying to do, at least on the face of it. A nice, big, easy to identify logo is playing nice with the consumer. Printing A1/B1 A5/B5 in the manual (like they had done in other parts of the world) would merely please XOM and BP and confuse the heck out of the average person.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
There aren't many automakers who haven't experimented with lifetime fills of one sort or another. As for DexCool, you can't swing a dead cat in the coolant aisle without hitting a bottle of the stuff to this day. It's usage is growing, not shrinking.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
We all know what Dexos really is and that is a money making ploy for GM.
Well, you know that they can't make any money off of selling automobiles.
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
We all know what Dexos really is and that is a money making ploy for GM.
Well, you know that they can't make any money off of selling automobiles.
Sure they can. They make good cars, trucks, and suv's. I have to say though that the whole Dexos thing would definitely turn me off wanting to buy one the same way OnStar does( being forced to have the equipment in your vehicle when you don't want it ). Maybe even more so as I don't have to use the OnStar equipment but I would have to comply with Dexos and I resent them getting a royalty fee for it.
I think GM really screws themselves image wise at times with the things they do.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
We all know what Dexos really is and that is a money making ploy for GM.
Well, you know that they can't make any money off of selling automobiles.
Sure they can. They make good cars, trucks, and suv's. I have to say though that the whole Dexos thing would definitely turn me off wanting to buy one the same way OnStar does( being forced to have the equipment in your vehicle when you don't want it ). Maybe even more so as I don't have to use the OnStar equipment but I would have to comply with Dexos and I resent them getting a royalty fee for it.
I think GM really screws themselves image wise at times with the things they do.
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Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I think GM really screws themselves image wise at times with the things they do.
They certainly work hard at appearing arrogant.
I think GM really screws themselves image wise at times with the things they do.
They certainly work hard at appearing arrogant.
Certainly, they can. I'm just having a little laugh at GM's expense. I'm sure you've seen my Tata Motors cracks against Chrysler.
I do understand your point about OnStar and comparing and contrasting it to dexos1. But, what can you do, I guess.
In any event, it's simply impossible to please everyone. I bet they annoyed a lot more people by essentially forbidding the conventional that went through many, many Chevs over the years than they did by getting a dexos1 logo and royalty. That would have annoyed me more than anything else. In the end, formal royalty or not, we're all paying for oils to be certified to standards that don't interest us in the least.
I'm not concerned with my oil meeting the Chrysler, Ford, or obsolete GM specs, yet they're on an awful lot of bottles. I certainly don't need all the formal builder approvals on my Delvac 1, but they're there.
I do understand your point about OnStar and comparing and contrasting it to dexos1. But, what can you do, I guess.
In any event, it's simply impossible to please everyone. I bet they annoyed a lot more people by essentially forbidding the conventional that went through many, many Chevs over the years than they did by getting a dexos1 logo and royalty. That would have annoyed me more than anything else. In the end, formal royalty or not, we're all paying for oils to be certified to standards that don't interest us in the least.
I'm not concerned with my oil meeting the Chrysler, Ford, or obsolete GM specs, yet they're on an awful lot of bottles. I certainly don't need all the formal builder approvals on my Delvac 1, but they're there.
Originally Posted By: Wilhelm_D
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
You know, I was ok with every off handed and even ignorant remark you made about GM owners until this. You are entitled to your opinions regarding anyone and their choices, regardless of how ignorant they are in your mind. You like the "arrogant" label, why try so hard to earn one for yourself?
But mentioning Dexcool when it is NOT what caused the issues with gaskets at all is just repeating what you read on the Internet. Do the research and discover the truth, as some of those poor ignorant GM buyers have. If Dex was so bad why is Ford specifying it?
After the DexCool fiasco and the 1995 Dexron III "lifetime" ATF dustup, I am not sure GM has the bona fides to lead us into the 21st century when it comes to chemicals and lubricants.
You know, I was ok with every off handed and even ignorant remark you made about GM owners until this. You are entitled to your opinions regarding anyone and their choices, regardless of how ignorant they are in your mind. You like the "arrogant" label, why try so hard to earn one for yourself?
But mentioning Dexcool when it is NOT what caused the issues with gaskets at all is just repeating what you read on the Internet. Do the research and discover the truth, as some of those poor ignorant GM buyers have. If Dex was so bad why is Ford specifying it?
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Originally Posted By: Garak
As for DexCool, you can't swing a dead cat in the coolant aisle without hitting a bottle of the stuff to this day. It's usage is growing, not shrinking.
I tried to swing a dead cat in my local WalMart to find the DexCool, but the greeter looked at me very disapprovingly.
As for DexCool, you can't swing a dead cat in the coolant aisle without hitting a bottle of the stuff to this day. It's usage is growing, not shrinking.
I tried to swing a dead cat in my local WalMart to find the DexCool, but the greeter looked at me very disapprovingly.
GM specifying that a oil meets a certain standard = cool
Getting a kickback from that standard (license) = not cool
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
The moment "SO" and ILSAC GL-6 comes out, it will likely meet Dexos1 standards... but it can't be proven. So that 2011-201X Dexos1 vehicles could use the new industry standard but GM will game the "license" again so that Son-of-Dexos plays hide the spec again.
Getting a kickback from that standard (license) = not cool
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
The moment "SO" and ILSAC GL-6 comes out, it will likely meet Dexos1 standards... but it can't be proven. So that 2011-201X Dexos1 vehicles could use the new industry standard but GM will game the "license" again so that Son-of-Dexos plays hide the spec again.
Originally Posted By: A_Harman
I tried to swing a dead cat in my local WalMart to find the DexCool, but the greeter looked at me very disapprovingly.
You're supposed to wait until the greeter is looking the other way.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
How many specifications outside of API/ILSAC/ACEA are really completely open?
I tried to swing a dead cat in my local WalMart to find the DexCool, but the greeter looked at me very disapprovingly.
You're supposed to wait until the greeter is looking the other way.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
How many specifications outside of API/ILSAC/ACEA are really completely open?
They're not. And if it's anything like our biz where mfgrs are allowed to claim 'trade secret', then we will likely not know much.
The faux outrage here is quite amusing, and the majority seem to be anti GM.
Let's all go 'Don Quixote' and start getting that big bad General...
The faux outrage here is quite amusing, and the majority seem to be anti GM.
Let's all go 'Don Quixote' and start getting that big bad General...
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
You know, I was ok with every off handed and even ignorant remark you made about GM owners until this. You are entitled to your opinions regarding anyone and their choices, regardless of how ignorant they are in your mind. You like the "arrogant" label, why try so hard to earn one for yourself?
Thank you for your thoughts. They are worth everything I paid for them.
You know, I was ok with every off handed and even ignorant remark you made about GM owners until this. You are entitled to your opinions regarding anyone and their choices, regardless of how ignorant they are in your mind. You like the "arrogant" label, why try so hard to earn one for yourself?
Thank you for your thoughts. They are worth everything I paid for them.
Originally Posted By: FutureDoc
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
The dexos standards are readily available to any entity that has a legitimate need for them. How would oil blenders know how their oils have to perform if the specifications were secret? I read the dexos standards back in 2010 when I was working at a Tier One parts supplier.
Getting a kick-back and keeping that standard a secret = really not cool.
The dexos standards are readily available to any entity that has a legitimate need for them. How would oil blenders know how their oils have to perform if the specifications were secret? I read the dexos standards back in 2010 when I was working at a Tier One parts supplier.
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