Mobil 1 ESP 0w30: What about LPSI Protection?

[ShermanFirefly]

I have a 2018 GM 2.0T and have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 for over 120K miles in northern Michigan. Even with a 6K OCI and very oversized M1-210A filters, the engine innards 'seemed' dirtier than I expected just viewing through the oil fill hole, so I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely and now I want to go back to 0w-30, especially with winter on the way. Seeing how everyone here says that ESP is much better than AFE, I'm ready to go that route now.

However, the only thing I don't know is what level of LPSI protection does Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 have? Is that a concern for European makes, which that oil is targeted to? The AFE has a Dexos certification but of course ESP does not. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

 

[facility1]

I would stay with the AFE 0w-30,it's a good oil for Mobil 1. it has lspi protection and the dexos rating

 

[kschachn]

I have a 2018 GM 2.0T and have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 for over 120K miles in northern Michigan. Even with a 6K OCI and very oversized M1-210A filters, the engine innards 'seemed' dirtier than I expected just viewing through the oil fill hole, so I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely and now I want to go back to 0w-30, especially with winter on the way. Seeing how everyone here says that ESP is much better than AFE, I'm ready to go that route now.

However, the only thing I don't know is what level of LPSI protection does Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 have? Is that a concern for European makes, which that oil is targeted to? The AFE has a Dexos certification but of course ESP does not. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

If you’re really worried about that then use the 5W-30 on the same shelf. It does meet both the engine and bench tests for an API license.

An oil with a 5W winter rating is guranteed for cold-weather performance down to about -30 or so. Are you starting below that?

FWIW Exxon-Mobil does say that the 0W-30 “meets or exceeds API SP engine test requirements to help address LSPI”.

 

[pbm]

I'm surprised to hear that Mobil 1 changed at 6K intervals made the engine innards dirty. Many run Mobil 1 longer intervals than that and have very clean engines (Tig 1 is one of them). What OCI did you run the R&P that cleaned it up?

 

[duck__dodgers]

Check your weather data (normal lows, record lows, etc.)...

even in UP Michigan, it may be that at most during one cold spell per winter, you **might** notice a different between 0W and 5W.

I'd be worried about testing batteries than choosing between 5W, 0W. IMO. YMMV.

 

[twX]

The only approval the ESP 0W-30 has that has an LSPI test is MB 229.52. This test is less stringent than API SP or D1G3, which are less stringent than API SQ. It's got 1750 ppm calcium, which is quite a bit higher than an SP, SQ, or D1G3 oil will have.

Whether you should be concerned about that depends on whether your engine is prone to LSPI-related failures. Mercedes might not be overly concerned with LSPI in their engines because they're tuned well enough or because they build their engines strong enough to handle a lot of LSPI events. That won't be the case for every engine. GM was concerned enough about it to develop their own test. I'd probably stick with an SP/SQ oil.

 

[buster]

It meets AP Engine test requirements and also uses a Ca/Mg detergent system which is LSPI friendly.

 

[altaylar]

Why not PUP?

 

[4wd]

If you’re really worried about that then use the 5W-30 on the same shelf. It does meet both the engine and bench tests for an API license.

An oil with a 5W winter rating is guranteed for cold-weather performance down to about -30 or so. Are you starting below that?

FWIW Exxon-Mobil does say that the 0W-30 “meets or exceeds API SP engine test requirements to help address LSPI”.

In my Lexus 2.0L turbo …

 

[GW.]

It meets AP Engine test requirements and also uses a Ca/Mg detergent system which is LSPI friendly.

This. ESP 0W-30 is as LSPI friendly as any SP oil.

 

[Brian123]

I have a 2018 GM 2.0T and have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 for over 120K miles in northern Michigan. Even with a 6K OCI and very oversized M1-210A filters, the engine innards 'seemed' dirtier than I expected just viewing through the oil fill hole,

PCV changed and what were your OCI's and what oils have you used?

so I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely and now I want to go back to 0w-30, especially with winter on the way. Seeing how everyone here says that ESP is much better than AFE, I'm ready to go that route now.

You have used an oil that cleaned things up nicely, why not stick with this oil, it cleans and protects. I want you to think out of the box, the cleaner the engine is the better the oil flow. Here is another thought, what is the most important thing for your car's engine health, it is about keeping something clean, your Piston Rings!

Why go to Mobil 1 ESP 0W-30 it might keep things clean, but it will not clean like Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30, your engine could need some more cleaning!

 

[EllieMae94]

I have a 2018 GM 2.0T and have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 for over 120K miles in northern Michigan. Even with a 6K OCI and very oversized M1-210A filters, the engine innards 'seemed' dirtier than I expected just viewing through the oil fill hole, so I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely and now I want to go back to 0w-30, especially with winter on the way. Seeing how everyone here says that ESP is much better than AFE, I'm ready to go that route now.

However, the only thing I don't know is what level of LPSI protection does Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 have? Is that a concern for European makes, which that oil is targeted to? The AFE has a Dexos certification but of course ESP does not. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

What did you see when looking through the oil fill hole. Varnish, sludge, something else?

 

[GI_GRIFF]

I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely

Why don't you stick with the Valvoline Restore and Protect forever. According to Valvoline, is can be used in brand new engines off the new car dealers' lot until the day you wear the vehicle out. Valvoline says it is their premium automotive engine oil.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

I would just stay with the Valvoline Restore and Protect 5W-30, but I understand the desire to go back to Mobil 1. Many drivers in Alaska where I live use 5W-30 and it works just fine in all but the interior and far northern parts which get below -30F regularly, in which case many drivers use block heaters anyway.

If I were to choose between AFE (I used to use it) and ESP I would chose ESP. I did not like the viscosity reduction I observed in Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 used oil analysis. This seemingly occurred due to low starting viscosity followed by fuel dilution and/or some combination of dilution and shearing. However for extreme cold weather that could be a bit moot as low outside air temps will generally lower operating temp and increase viscosity a bit. There is some evidence that VII breakdown (permanent shear) can lead to deposits, though.

ESP 0W-30 Noack is reportedly ~8% which makes sense as its Mercedes approvals require 10% or less. AFE is Dexos 1 gen 3 so it only needs 12.5% or less. The PAO Ester base oil blend for ESP 0W-30 may require less Viscosity index improvers than the likely group III formulation than AFE, but that is speculation. Both of those things would tend to indicate a lower tendency for engine deposits with ESP.

VOA for ESP 0W-30 shows ~1800 ppm Calcium. For LSPI mitigation, 1500 ppm or less is said to be ideal. AFE is under ~1000. However, as stated previously, Mercedes did test ESP for LSPI, and since it has their approval, it passed despite the Calcium. There are probably other ways to formulate LSPI mitigation than reducing calcium and increasing magnesium which might not show up on a VOA.

For you to do more research you could explore the testing differences between Dexos 1 gen 3 and MB 229.52 and make a decision based from that. Most here conclude that the ESP is formulated to perform to a more stringent standard, LSPI and fuel economy being the two possible exceptions.

 

[TijY_]

I have a 2018 GM 2.0T and have used Mobil 1 Advanced Fuel Economy 0w30 for over 120K miles in northern Michigan. Even with a 6K OCI and very oversized M1-210A filters, the engine innards 'seemed' dirtier than I expected just viewing through the oil fill hole, so I have just finished 4 OCI's with Valvoline Restore and Protect 5w-30. That oil cleaned things up nicely and now I want to go back to 0w-30, especially with winter on the way. Seeing how everyone here says that ESP is much better than AFE, I'm ready to go that route now.

However, the only thing I don't know is what level of LPSI protection does Mobil 1 ESP 0w30 have? Is that a concern for European makes, which that oil is targeted to? The AFE has a Dexos certification but of course ESP does not. Am I overthinking this?

Many thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Is your 2018 GM 2.0T a manual?

Would not be overly concerned if it was automatic. Unless GM has a strange software tune in the auto.

 

[ShermanFirefly]

WOW! I'm VERY impressed with the level of knowledge here! Unbelievable!

As for the questions, I use a 6-7K mi OCI always with oversized filters, Mostly M1-210A's. 9-Speed Automatic with AWD. When I looked into the oil fill hole, I saw a lot of dark varnish, and there was some thicker gunk inside the oil fill cap - which really surprised me. I drive very - ahem - fast on open, clear rural roads and my driving is a mix of that and in town stop and go. 'Never touched the PCV - should I change it? I'm diligent about other maintenance but for some reason tend to forget about those things...

This could be a really dumb question, but what about mixing some ratio of 0w-30 ESP AND AFE? LOL, I know, right? I don't want to be an amateur tribologist making Franken crankcase concoctions, but as a fantasy question I wonder how/if would that work? Especially if the lower Calcium of the AFE would pull the ESP down a bit - and they're both SP rated. Say, a 5qt jug of ESP and about 1.25 qts of AFE for my 6.25 fill?

The continue to use Valvoline Restore and Protect suggestion is also back on the table, too.

 

[kschachn]

WOW! I'm VERY impressed with the level of knowledge here! Unbelievable!

As for the questions, I use a 6-7K mi OCI always with oversized filters, Mostly M1-210A's. 9-Speed Automatic with AWD. When I looked into the oil fill hole, I saw a lot of dark varnish, and there was some thicker gunk inside the oil fill cap - which really surprised me. I drive very - ahem - fast on open, clear rural roads and my driving is a mix of that and in town stop and go. 'Never touched the PCV - should I change it? I'm diligent about other maintenance but for some reason tend to forget about those things...

This could be a really dumb question, but what about mixing some ratio of 0w-30 ESP AND AFE? LOL, I know, right? I don't want to be an amateur tribologist making Franken crankcase concoctions, but as a fantasy question I wonder how/if would that work? Especially if the lower Calcium of the AFE would pull the ESP down a bit - and they're both SP rated. Say, a 5qt jug of ESP and about 1.25 qts of AFE for my 6.25 fill?

The continue to use Valvoline Restore and Protect suggestion is also back on the table, too.

So what’s the lowest temperature you’re starting the engine?

 

[wlk]

I'd stick w the 5w30 Valvoline Restore and Protect.

 

[edyvw]

Again, for the 757789526 time, higher ZDDP level suppress LSPI event.
As we mentioned the number of times I listed above, the problems really started when API limited phosphorus levels in API SM and later. ESP 0W30 is rated API SL as phosphorus levels exceed 800ppm.
In addition, it is MB229.52 which is most stringent low-SAPS approval.
It has LSPI test on Mercedes engine. Generally Euro engines which are not poorly tuned are not prone to LSPI, but the FORD 2.0 Ecoboost that API does test on is also not prone to LSPI.
Between AFE and ESP is not a debate. AFE is generally not shear stable oil, and base stocks are far inferior to ESP 0W30.

 

[edyvw]

The only approval the ESP 0W-30 has that has an LSPI test is MB 229.52. This test is less stringent than API SP or D1G3, which are less stringent than API SQ. It's got 1750 ppm calcium, which is quite a bit higher than an SP, SQ, or D1G3 oil will have.

Whether you should be concerned about that depends on whether your engine is prone to LSPI-related failures. Mercedes might not be overly concerned with LSPI in their engines because they're tuned well enough or because they build their engines strong enough to handle a lot of LSPI events. That won't be the case for every engine. GM was concerned enough about it to develop their own test. I'd probably stick with an SP/SQ oil.

API test is done on FORD Ecoboost engine which is also not prone to LSPI.
Mobil1 claims that ESP 0W30 meets all requirements of API SP. The only reason why it is not API SP is that ESP has previous additive package from Infineum which is higher in Z/P levels compared to current ESP 5W30. But that is good thing.