Someone Straighten Me Out-What Mobil 1 NOW for my ancient V-Twin?

[LVHospiceRN]

Okay, i confess to being a bit confused. Someone give me their opinion.

I have been running Mobil 1 "Red Cap" 15W-45 in my 1992 FXSTC. Now with all the reformulations it seems that the Mobil 1 V-Twin Oil maybe the oil of choice. Prior to the "new and improved" series from Mobil 1, V-Twin oil offered few improvements over "Red Cap".

Is this logical thinking or am i way off base?

darrell
sin city

 

[pococj]

What in the reformulation makes the new stuff unsuitable for the HD Evo engine? I've been using the red cap 20w-50 in my '87 motor, but not in the primary or tranny.

 

[KW]

The M1 MC 20W50 is really robust stuff. But I would not hesitate to continue to run the 15W50 car oil in the crank case of a Harley.

 

[fuel tanker man]

Spoke to a Mobil 1 tech this afternoon. He said that the new EP rated stuff has twice the moly in it. 100 ppm as opposed to 50 ppm in the redcap. Other than that, I don't think there would be any concerns even for a wet clutch bike.

For the Evo you've got, I'm sure the new Mobil 1 EP 15W50 would do fine.

I'm not taking the bait, though. I don't think it was necessary for Mobil to do what they did, but then again I'm not in charge there.

Mobil is going for a longer drain on the new oil. 15,000 miles in a car, to be precise. For your Harley and mine (and everyone else's for that matter

) I think we should drain the oil no later than about 2500 miles, 3000 tops. These engines can get warm (being air cooled) and deposits can form, fuel dilution issues can arise, etc. You might see one good UOA on a 5000 mile OCI, but that doesn't mean that that guy can make it to 5K next time without a crankcase contaminated with fuel or other deposits--depending on conditions.

I've decided to give 20W50 Havoline a test run of 2000 miles and get a UOA and see how it looks.

The new Mobil 1 is around 5 bucks a quart now. The redcap was 4 dollars a quart. I may try the new Mobil 1 this summer (if it's really hot) but I think I'll get through spring with the cheaper oil; I don't think it'll matter that much.

Dan

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
I've decided to give 20W50 Havoline a test run of 2000 miles and get a UOA and see how it looks.

The new Mobil 1 is around 5 bucks a quart now. The redcap was 4 dollars a quart. I may try the new Mobil 1 this summer (if it's really hot) but I think I'll get through spring with the cheaper oil; I don't think it'll matter that much.

Dan

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I tend to ride most when the temp is hottest here in vegas, well over 100 degrees in stop and go traffic...so i am probably going to stick with the 15W-50 M1 i think at this point. While i see that the V-Twin oil has 17.4353% of various additives, if the motor gets to the point that it becomes a factor, i probably have other serious issues.

Just my thoughts, very open to other suggestions...

darrell
sin city

 

[fuel tanker man]

"While i see that the V-Twin oil has 17.4353% of various additives, if the motor gets to the point that it becomes a factor, i probably have other serious issues."

Good point, and one that deserves repeating. Mobil or whomever may trump up the idea that the additives are being increased, but if the base oil does its job you'll not have to resort to the additives.

The old Mobil 1 had more than enough additive.

The new Mobil 1 has "way" more than enough.

And the V-Twin has two times more than enough.

Dan

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by fuel tanker man:
"While i see that the V-Twin oil has 17.4353% of various additives, if the motor gets to the point that it becomes a factor, i probably have other serious issues."

Good point, and one that deserves repeating. Mobil or whomever may trump up the idea that the additives are being increased, but if the base oil does its job you'll not have to resort to the additives.

The old Mobil 1 had more than enough additive.

The new Mobil 1 has "way" more than enough.

And the V-Twin has two times more than enough.

Dan

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Of course, you have to figure, if harley motor company (i REFUSE to capitalize that) sold M1 it would go for like $28 a quart!

Just IMHO
darrell
sin city

 

[Vstrom]

Mix the new 15w-50 with the 5w-40 TSUV and get the moly down to what it was before.
Anyone know if they've changed the 5w-40 formula in the new bottles?

I just mixed up some oil for my bikes- 3 parts 5w-40 / 1 part 15w-50 / 1 part 10w-40 M1 MC oil.
Got some 10w-40 M1 MC getting old so I'm using it up in this formula, all M1 products.

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mickey_M:

quote:

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LVHospiceRN:
.... Now with all the reformulations it seems that the Mobil 1 V-Twin Oil maybe the oil of choice. Prior to the "new and improved" series from Mobil 1, V-Twin oil offered few improvements over "Red Cap". ....

---

The V-Twin oil is a different animal than the automotive oil:

1. More polar - provides better protection for engines that are parked a lot and driven little. Also higher levels of anti-rust additives.

2. Much higher temperature performance - take a look at the flash point. Prevents cooking on the hot cylinder.

3. Much higher levels of zinc and phosphorous - your transmission will love you for it.

4. Zero VI improver - this is one oil you won't see shear down.

5. No friction modifiers.

The V-twin Mobil 1 is really designed with Harleys in mind. It also does a bang-up job on old cars designed with SAE 40 and 50 motor oils in mind - for one thing you don't have to add expensive additives to prevent dry starts and corrosion in cars driven little and parked a lot.
.

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1 & 2: Oh the numbers are higher, i see that...but if the engine gets pushed to the "flashpoint" of the oil, i have serious probably that the oil probably isnt going to solve...

3: My tranny isnt going to care, harleys have seperate transmissions/engine oils...at least mine does...

4: I am under the impression that shearing occurs mostly in transmissions...see #3...

5: How is no friction modifiers a benefit when the engine/trans is served by two different oil reserves...

darrell
sin city

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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LVHospiceRN:

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..... but if the engine gets pushed to the "flashpoint" of the oil, i have serious probably that the oil probably isnt going to solve...

It's the oil that gets pushed to the flash point. It does it on the cylinder wall of the hot cylinder and over the heads.

Shearing occurs in almost every mechanical application.


.

 

[pococj]

Darrell, the friction modifier and no VI aspect of the V-Twin version comes into play 'cause HD is saying it's OK to use their Syn 3 in the tranny and gear box, and many of the other oil people are jumping on the bandwagon. I've heard too many horror stories from both riders and techs about tranny problems that started after the rider switched to the 20w-50.

I spent the day in Longview, TX and surrounding area trying to find some V-Twin with no luck. I sent a message to Stinky Peterson of Butler Oil Analysis to take him up on his offer of a free analysis of several oils that he doesn't have in his library. I chose Mobil 1 15w-50 (newest version), Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin, and Harley Syn 3 20w-50. I've got the HD and 15w-50, but can't find the V-Twin anywhere. Even went to the Mobil site and searched for an outlet, but all the places they mentioned I've already been to and they don't carry it. Anybody have any ideas?

 

[Mackelroy]

any autozone will carry the Vtwin mobil1

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

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Originally posted by Mickey_M:

quote:

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LVHospiceRN:

---

..... but if the engine gets pushed to the "flashpoint" of the oil, i have serious probably that the oil probably isnt going to solve...

It's the oil that gets pushed to the flash point. It does it on the cylinder wall of the hot cylinder and over the heads.

Shearing occurs in almost every mechanical application..

---

Thanks Mickey, i have alot to learn about oil i confess....the shearing i wasnt sure about.

So i understand that the M1 V-Twin oil was reformulated. Prior to that, looking at VOA it didnt seem to be worth a premium over M1 "red cap". You think it is worth the difference in price, around $5 vs $9?

My main concern like i stated was hot temps here in vegas, 115 in stop and go traffic is the main "issue".

darrell
sin city

 

[LVHospiceRN]

quote:

---

Originally posted by pococj:
Darrell, the friction modifier and no VI aspect of the V-Twin version comes into play 'cause HD is saying it's OK to use their Syn 3 in the tranny and gear box, and many of the other oil people are jumping on the bandwagon. I've heard too many horror stories from both riders and techs about tranny problems that started after the rider switched to the 20w-50.

I spent the day in Longview, TX and surrounding area trying to find some V-Twin with no luck. I sent a message to Stinky Peterson of Butler Oil Analysis to take him up on his offer of a free analysis of several oils that he doesn't have in his library. I chose Mobil 1 15w-50 (newest version), Mobil 1 20w-50 V-Twin, and Harley Syn 3 20w-50. I've got the HD and 15w-50, but can't find the V-Twin anywhere. Even went to the Mobil site and searched for an outlet, but all the places they mentioned I've already been to and they don't carry it. Anybody have any ideas?

---

I dropped by the local AZ last night, specifically looking for the V-Twin without luck. They used to stock it, not sure now, didnt see a label for it and the counter was very busy, didnt want to wait to ask...

darrell
sin city

 

[Norm Olt]

Nothing wrong with the OLD M1 Redcap (I'm an Amsoil AMO guy, myself) and I would start canvassing the local WallyWorlds if I were you looking for the OLD Redtop multi-quart jugs @ about $4.00 per quart.

Using 3K OCI's seems about right and you should not have any oil-related problems using this regimen.

Gotta' go: gotta' ride this a.m.

Cheers!

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

---

LVHospiceRN:
.... Now with all the reformulations it seems that the Mobil 1 V-Twin Oil maybe the oil of choice. Prior to the "new and improved" series from Mobil 1, V-Twin oil offered few improvements over "Red Cap". ....

---

The V-Twin oil is a different animal than the automotive oil:

1. More polar - provides better protection for engines that are parked a lot and driven little. Also higher levels of anti-rust additives.

2. Much higher temperature performance - take a look at the flash point. Prevents cooking on the hot cylinder.

3. Much higher levels of zinc and phosphorous - your transmission will love you for it.

4. Zero VI improver - this is one oil you won't see shear down.

5. No friction modifiers.

The V-twin Mobil 1 is really designed with Harleys in mind. It also does a bang-up job on old cars designed with SAE 40 and 50 motor oils in mind - for one thing you don't have to add expensive additives to prevent dry starts and corrosion in cars driven little and parked a lot.


.

 

[fuel tanker man]

The V-Twin Mobil 1 is definitely a good oil. But to justify the price, I think you'd have to run that oil without doing a UOA for at least 6000 miles.

If your engine were to--for whatever reason--begin dropping gasoline into the crankcase (plug not firing well, or whatever) then you'd end up with a very diluted oil. On long OCI's you could really do some damage in this scenario. The Mobil 1 could take a certain amount of dilution, but the longer you ran the oil, the further toward the "breaking point" you'd become.

For this reason, I think the shorter drains are probably best. Just get the old oil out and new oil in every 2500 miles--max. My opinion.

If you have the extra cash to afford 25 dollars worth of oil every 2500 miles, that's a good thing--I say go for it, as you'll likely never have an oil related engine concern.

I'd rather use about 4 bucks worth of a good oil (and there are oils that meet this criteria) and swap it out every 2000 to 2500 miles.

There's more than one way to skin this cat. The above (at least for the time being) is mine.

Dan

 

[Huhwhye]

I've seen it at this bike shop here in CA. Chaparral Motorsports

They don't show it on the website but they do sell it. $10 a quart. This is the only place I have seen it anywhere. And I have been to a lot of shops lately looking for a helmet and jacket for the girlfriend, at least 10 shops. And my local Autozone doesn't carry it either, was there today. They do sell the Valvoline MC oils though.

 

[Mackelroy]

I've been into autozones of florida and Texas, so far I've been able to find the mobil1 vtwin and 10w40. It's $7.98

Sorry to hear of the no find issues,

IMO, the High heat tolerence lessens burnoff from the stability even at normal operating temps. Some complaints of synthetic oil thickening is from burn off. An oil with very high flash point should be more resistive to that, doesn't hurt anyway.

 

[Mickey_M]

quote:

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LVHospiceRN:

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You think it is worth the difference in price, around $5 vs $9?

My main concern like i stated was hot temps here in vegas, 115 in stop and go traffic is the main "issue".

I see a site sponsor sells it and ships it.

I get it by the case, so I'm not spending $9 a quart.

If you need it, it's worth it.

It's pretty hard to imagine a stronger motor oil for use in high heat.


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