Sodium-ion battery announcement.. latest

[researcher]

I know there were other announcements but I found this latest one interesting. Sure, there are a lot of promises for the future but it seems a lot more promising than the Lithium-Ion that I feel is at the end of the road.

This time they're claiming 3.6 million miles of lifespan, 400+ miles of range, not to mention Sodium is a lot more stable than thermal runaways with Lithium. What also is interesting, swapping batteries in 3 minutes instead of waiting for it to charge.

Here's a link
https://sodiumbatteryhub.com/2025/09/13/catl-introduces-game-changing-sodium-ion-ev-battery/

 

[Boomer]

I don't follow EV technology very closely at all. But I do see articles on battery improvements. Are any EVs using any of these improved batteries as yet or are these just "Popular Mechanics" articles that will make us smile in thirty years?

 

[vwmaniaman]

I have more lead acid car batteries than most people because I have 2 or 3 in my campers. Just replaced 2 Deep cycle batteries in our Coach House B+ camper and they lasted for 4 years which was amazing to me. The best batteries I find are the Duracell from East Penn. I also have 6 batteries in our golf cart, so I sure would appreciate a lighter weight battery that would last through many charges.

 

[Cujet]

Sodium Ion batteries are not new, and billions have been poured into development since the 1970's. They are less energy dense, and have less stable voltage output. Although they are safer and work well when cold. The traditional problem has been cycle life. It may be that this can be addressed via a combination of software controlling depth of discharge/charge and improved materials.

But they are only about 90% efficient, charge/discharge. So the 10% loss is an issue. Today's automotive batteries do considerably better, often over 95%.

 

[goingplacesanddoingstuff]

Sodium Ion batteries are not new, and billions have been poured into development since the 1970's. They are less energy dense, and have less stable voltage output. Although they are safer and work well when cold. The traditional problem has been cycle life. It may be that this can be addressed via a combination of software controlling depth of discharge/charge and improved materials.

But they are only about 90% efficient, charge/discharge. So the 10% loss is an issue. Today's automotive batteries do considerably better, often over 95%.

This is outdated information. This technology has an energy density of 175 Wh/kg, has a 10,000+ cycle life, is 94-97% efficient, and operates at the same or better voltage stability as lithium ion.

These also don’t use any cobalt or nickel. I expect we’ll start seeing hybrid sodium-lithium packs in cars to improve cold range and reduce safety hazards relatively soon.

 

[Cujet]

I've read the claims. They need verification. By now we are all aware of the constant stream of nonsense claims, none of which turn out to be accurate. In the case of the Sodium battery, expansion remains a constant, and the idea that the cathode is 'self healing' might be a bit too much to believe. 175Wh/kg is not the right direction. The latest 4680 is now at 300Wh/kg and is reliable enough to last 300,000 miles.

 

[Brons2]

I posted this in the Dodge canceled their EV thread:
https://energynews.biz/catls-19-kwh-sodium-ion-claims-face-reality-check-in-1-82-billion-market/

A fully engineereed battery pack is more than just the battery cells. They estimate a 30% cost reduction on a fully engineered pack using CATL's sodium cells. While that's not quite the drop seen when talking about raw cell cost LFP vs NA, it's certainly not insignificant.

We'll see how they actually work in practice. I am cautiously optimistic. Chinese consumers will certainly be the beta testers.

One thing that may be a side benefit of these for EV-skeptical consumers is that they are more thermally stable. Another is that they charge better in the cold than LFP cells.

Interesting times ahead.

 

[JeffKeryk]

Delected...

 

[jghall00]

I don't follow EV technology very closely at all. But I do see articles on battery improvements. Are any EVs using any of these improved batteries as yet or are these just "Popular Mechanics" articles that will make us smile in thirty years?

There is at least one Chinese vehicle that uses this chemistry. But nothing in the U.S. Perhaps in Mexico soon. They're better for use as utility scale grid backup IMO. American cities are too sprawling and charging infrastructure insufficient for the small, low range vehicle that would make of SIB. There's a grid storage company that plans to use them for storage without ancillary cooling/heating hardware because they function at a wide temperature range. In the near term, price reductions will come from scaling up production, adding silicon, and altering chemistries, such as what GM is doing with LMR and LFP. Eventually we'll see LiS and solid state deployed. For the majority of consumer use cases, current battery technology is sufficient, but costs need to come down.

 

[Brons2]

There is at least one Chinese vehicle that uses this chemistry. But nothing in the U.S. Perhaps in Mexico soon. They're better for use as utility scale grid backup IMO. American cities are too sprawling and charging infrastructure insufficient for the small, low range vehicle that would make of SIB. There's a grid storage company that plans to use them for storage without ancillary cooling/heating hardware because they function at a wide temperature range. In the near term, price reductions will come from scaling up production, adding silicon, and altering chemistries, such as what GM is doing with LMR and LFP. Eventually we'll see LiS and solid state deployed. For the majority of consumer use cases, current battery technology is sufficient, but costs need to come down.

This post doesn't seem aligned with the latest announcements on CATL Naxtra, which has been announced in the last 5 months. They announced 175Wh/kg, which is breakthrough density for sodium ion. And also 90% energy retention at -40C/F. Why would that not be used in cars?

 

[jghall00]

This post doesn't seem aligned with the latest announcements on CATL Naxtra, which has been announced in the last 5 months. They announced 175Wh/kg, which is breakthrough density for sodium ion. And also 90% energy retention at -40C/F. Why would that not be used in cars?

I didn't say SIB would not be used in cars, as it already is. I said they're better suited for use in utility scale grid backup, especially in the U.S. Naxtra hasn't been commercially deployed yet, so we can't draw any conclusions on vehicle range from CATL's announcement. The cars shipping in China with SIB are tiny and probably would not sell well in the U.S. Check the top 20 vehicles being sold in the U.S. None of them are subcompacts, despite Americans persistent complaints about affordability.

The cost savings from SIB would need to match or exceed the reduction in energy density because it's going to make heavy EVs even heavier to match current vehicle range. But volumetric energy density is lower as well, so the vehicle wouldn't necessarily be smaller. Also, SIB has lower round-trip efficiency as compared to LFP and NCM/NCA. One of the biggest knocks against EVs in the U.S. is range. So imagine going to a chemistry with even less energy density as compared to what is currently on the market. I think we'll see solid state batteries deployed in the US for automotive applications before we see SIB.

 

[Brons2]

I didn't say SIB would not be used in cars, as it already is. I said they're better suited for use in utility scale grid backup, especially in the U.S. Naxtra hasn't been commercially deployed yet, so we can't draw any conclusions on vehicle range from CATL's announcement. The cars shipping in China with SIB are tiny and probably would not sell well in the U.S. Check the top 20 vehicles being sold in the U.S. None of them are subcompacts, despite Americans persistent complaints about affordability.

The cost savings from SIB would need to match or exceed the reduction in energy density because it's going to make heavy EVs even heavier to match current vehicle range. But volumetric energy density is lower as well, so the vehicle wouldn't necessarily be smaller. Also, SIB has lower round-trip efficiency as compared to LFP and NCM/NCA. One of the biggest knocks against EVs in the U.S. is range. So imagine going to a chemistry with even less energy density as compared to what is currently on the market. I think we'll see solid state batteries deployed in the US for automotive applications before we see SIB.

I still think this conclusion is partially flawed. 175 wh/kg is density competitive with most LFP batteries, at a much lower price, that's why this is exciting for so many people. Yes, CATL does have an LFP that is 205 wh/kg, but that is new and not the norm in the industry for LFP. BYD's LFP batteries used in smaller vehicles are only 150 wh/kg, so the Naxtra batteries exceed that.

I would agree that CATL has yet to prove Naxtra at scale production, and we can't infer too much from their announcements. Still, if the promised density actually materializes, it's a big deal.

As for the knocks against EVs for range in the US, we are doing fine with two EVs with 240 and 230 miles EPA range respectively, mainly around town. Everyone thinks they need gonzo range, most don't. We don't do iron butt road trips, we fly most places beyond 4-5 hours. But we did take my Lightning to South Padre in the spring, and enjoyed the trip even with my "small" 98kwh battery.

As always, YMMV.

 

[Torrid]

I still think this conclusion is partially flawed. 175 wh/kg is density competitive with most LFP batteries, at a much lower price, that's why this is exciting for so many people. Yes, CATL does have an LFP that is 205 wh/kg, but that is new and not the norm in the industry for LFP. BYD's LFP batteries used in smaller vehicles are only 150 wh/kg, so the Naxtra batteries exceed that.

I would agree that CATL has yet to prove Naxtra at scale production, and we can't infer too much from their announcements. Still, if the promised density actually materializes, it's a big deal.

As for the knocks against EVs for range in the US, we are doing fine with two EVs with 240 and 230 miles EPA range respectively, mainly around town. Everyone thinks they need gonzo range, most don't. We don't do iron butt road trips, we fly most places beyond 4-5 hours. But we did take my Lightning to South Padre in the spring, and enjoyed the trip even with my "small" 98kwh battery.

As always, YMMV.

My experience is similar with even more driving. My wife took a 2,100 mile round trip 6 weeks ago in her Model Y with the 330 mile range. I drive about 20k miles a year, most of that being work related and even with my much shorter range of 280 miles for being a Performance, it has not caused me issues. I work with a guy that has a Model 3 Long Range and he had some concern about driving it through the winter for his commute, but his car is higher rated than mine and his drive almost mirrors when I worked in Milwaukee and I did that drive daily in the winter in my MYP.

They offer cabs for people reporting to locations away from our home terminal, but they always pay mileage if you drive your own car and I also don't have to have my ear talked off by a cab driver and I have a vehicle while I'm away from home instead of being confined to a hotel that may not have close by food. Driving an EV makes that mileage payout feel like a bonus.

I always find it interesting when someone describes all the detractors to having an EV and in their mind they are real problems. Not once have I had a single issue with having an EV that caused me any bit of inconvenience. I had owned an EV my wife mostly drove before I bought my MYP and I really started learning once I was daily driving it. I was overthinking everything. It was funny to my wife. The amount of times I got the "what are you doing?" as I would explain my math out for charging and some other nonsense I didn't fully get at the time. I didn't have to do all of that. There's nothing to figure out. I'm just one of those people that overthinks everything. It's how I ended up on BITOG obsessed with motor oil. Having an EV helps alleviate some of that OCD nature I like to refer to as mechanical sympathy I've always had with cars. Plug it in when you have to. Drive when you need to. I would never daily drive an ICE vehicle again. No interest. I don't care how fun and cool sounding some of them are and trust me I really do love that part of them. That's a weekend toy though. They're slower, they smell bad, and have less tech. Having an EV and specifically a Tesla makes my life genuinely easier and it's just as fun as my old LS powered GTO. They both like to get sideways when you cut the traction control and get into the throttle and as far as I'm concerned that's the most important feature of any car.

 

[JeffKeryk]

I always find it interesting when someone describes all the detractors to having an EV and in their mind they are real problems. Not once have I had a single issue with having an EV that caused me any bit of inconvenience.

I used to think EVs were only for rich CA granola heads. I was wrong. ICE vehicles are far more inconvenient to operate. It's not even close. Gassing up (freakin' expensive), fluid services and the rest are simply not part of the deal.

The biggest negative, to me, is my insurance just jumped. Dunno why, I've driven Teslas since Dec 2018 and have zero tickets. The '24 MYP was actually cheaper than the '18 MY Mid Range until last 6 month premium. Go figure...

I have to believe the naysayers are simply inexperienced. EVs are not for everyone; no car is. But once you've lived with one, you just might find them awesome-sauce. Especially Tesla Model 3 Performance... It's that good.

 

[E365]

Mostly interested because they claim they’re better in the cold. That’s been my only issue with my EV - on the really cold days the range and charging speed reduction is noticeable (unless preconditioned).