so whats new since 2007?
- Thread starter R4Klimas
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I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
Originally Posted By: tig1
The PP for Mobil 1 0w30 is -50C and we know it is a blend of differant stocks.
PP for Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 is -51c
The PP for Mobil 1 5w30 is -42c for comparison.
The PP for Mobil 1 0w30 is -50C and we know it is a blend of differant stocks.
PP for Pennzoil Ultra 5w30 is -51c
The PP for Mobil 1 5w30 is -42c for comparison.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
Oh ya thats right. The SN hadn't even came out yet when they did the Q&A
That being said how much GTL do you think is in it? It has to be a blend right?
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
Oh ya thats right. The SN hadn't even came out yet when they did the Q&A
That being said how much GTL do you think is in it? It has to be a blend right?
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: Torrid
Castrol Edge 5w50
I wonder which one has a better add pack,Syntec 5W50 or Mobil 1 15W50?
They both have 1200-1300ppm zinc/phos. Mobil 1 15w50 is a great oil and I have used it to thicken and boost the add pack of Mobil 1 5w30, but I've never used it straight. Lingenfelter likes to use 15w50 in all the GM LS V8 cars they touch regardless of the amount of internal work has been done. I would think the 5w50 would be a better selection for startup on a cool morning.
Originally Posted By: Torrid
Castrol Edge 5w50
I wonder which one has a better add pack,Syntec 5W50 or Mobil 1 15W50?
They both have 1200-1300ppm zinc/phos. Mobil 1 15w50 is a great oil and I have used it to thicken and boost the add pack of Mobil 1 5w30, but I've never used it straight. Lingenfelter likes to use 15w50 in all the GM LS V8 cars they touch regardless of the amount of internal work has been done. I would think the 5w50 would be a better selection for startup on a cool morning.
Originally Posted By: electrolover
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
Oh ya thats right. The SN hadn't even came out yet when they did the Q&A
That being said how much GTL do you think is in it? It has to be a blend right?
They said 1000%. Going by the pour point which is the same as Amsoils top tier SS 0w30 and only 2c higher than SS 0w20 and the very low NOAK i believe it.
Maybe Pablo can chime in but IIRC Amsoils top tier oils are 100% true synthetic also.
IIRC i read on the forum some time ago that Mobil 1 0w20 and 0w30 are heavy on PAO but i cant find the thread.
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: electrolover
I maybe mistaken but I thought Pennzoil said it was a group III. They actualy chose it over pao base stocks for some reason......
And when confronted with the extended drain question they said they were more interested in cleaning and it would meet any factory specified interval
IIRC they did for the old SM version.
Oh ya thats right. The SN hadn't even came out yet when they did the Q&A
That being said how much GTL do you think is in it? It has to be a blend right?
They said 1000%. Going by the pour point which is the same as Amsoils top tier SS 0w30 and only 2c higher than SS 0w20 and the very low NOAK i believe it.
Maybe Pablo can chime in but IIRC Amsoils top tier oils are 100% true synthetic also.
IIRC i read on the forum some time ago that Mobil 1 0w20 and 0w30 are heavy on PAO but i cant find the thread.
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Originally Posted By: Trav
IIRC i read on the forum some time ago that Mobil 1 0w20 and 0w30 are heavy on PAO but i cant find the thread.
Yes, I believe it was buster who posted the links to the Japanese MSDS sheets taht showed significant PAO content in the AFE grades.
IIRC i read on the forum some time ago that Mobil 1 0w20 and 0w30 are heavy on PAO but i cant find the thread.
Yes, I believe it was buster who posted the links to the Japanese MSDS sheets taht showed significant PAO content in the AFE grades.
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MJ had told me Mobil 1 15W50 is a grp IV/V mix.
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Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
MJ had told me Mobil 1 15W50 is a grp IV/V mix.
Michael Jackson?
MJ had told me Mobil 1 15W50 is a grp IV/V mix.
Michael Jackson?
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
MJ had told me Mobil 1 15W50 is a grp IV/V mix.
Michael Jackson?
lol
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
MJ had told me Mobil 1 15W50 is a grp IV/V mix.
Michael Jackson?
lol
Awesome, I knew this was still the right place. Thanks for the welcomes and Im glad to be here. It looks like things have changed some and I'm gonna try to respond to the additional questions and clarify some where I can according to post order.
Trav - Since I have been out of the oil loop for awhile I dont recall much about the GTL process vs PAO, and I will have to do some research on PU. I am definitely interested in it, especailly as its predecessor PP intrigued me a few years ago as possibly better than Mobil 1. If PU is better than amsoil, then it could definitely be a contender for what I need. Seeing what a confirmed PAO based oil did for my car and the science behind it I really kind of want to stick with this type of top tier motor oil.
Caterham - My assumption that the GC base stock was better than the amsoil 0w30 was merely from recalling the specs and oppinions that I read here a few years ago. I could definitely be mistaken on that one. I do remember quite clearly that the amsoil 0w30 and 5w30 used the same base stock but the 5w30 had a viscosity modifier thrown in. Also I have never tried the amsoil 0w30 only the 5w30 API SL that was available then and quit being available about a year ago when they changed their top tier 5w30 to the API SM grade signature series. At that time given my consumption with mobil 1 and royal purple, I was very hesitant to try anything but the reccomended grade or higher.
Art Vandelay - I agreed with you then and I agree with you now about GC being most likely a PAO and the green and gold using the same base. Mobil 1 was my default oil until I got this car in which its performance was less than I had expected. This led to research concluding that after Mobil lost its suit against castrol for claiming that their group III Hydrocracked was a "full synthetic" (go figure) they had little reason to continue using the more expensive PAO base that had earned Mobil 1 its outstanding reputation, which again recalling from the pase seemed to be superior to both GC and amsoil at the time they used it. To most folks who ask I still reccomend Mobil 1 if I dont want to get lynched, PP intrigued me when it came out, but I had already found my oil and didn't bother researching it.
Pablo and Quattro Pete - You were asking about my car. I deliberately did not mention it to reduce flames and getting told blanket statements and "you dont need all that" [censored]. I do. The car has a 03' toyota 2zz-ge engine 1.8L running 11.5:1 pistons, with various intake and electrical mods that have increased fuel efficiency from 10-16 to 21-33 and the ability to pull in 6th at 75mph down to 45mph with AC on. It is a heavier vehicle than the engine was designed for by a few hundred lbs and has slightly lower gears to match. It is a daily driver with 145k miles on it, and used amsoil 5w30 since 55k with 5k OCIs. I regularly engage in spirited driving to 130mph on long safe stretches as well as on a few certain turns that I like to push the cars limits. The car has no mechanical problems, and regular maintenence is meticulously performed with oem or racing grade parts. For reference Mobil 1 5w30 begins to consume oil at 3k miles 1/2 qt from 3k to 4k and a full qt from 4k to 5k if I let it go by accident. The older amsoil 5w30 API SL probably began to consume at between 4.5k and 5k as when I tried a 7500k OCI only 1/2 qt had been consumed. I stuck to 5k OCIs with this oil and had barely noticeable consumption. Now that this oil has been replaced with the SS 5w30 in API SM, consumption increased to 1/2 to 3/4qt after 5k. This was not a gradual change, and occured with the switch to the SS. I have thoroughly checked the car and performed a few tests and taken some precautions that I thought may have been the culprit, but 3 changes later and still the same amount of consumption.
Ok now that you guys are armed with new info and some clarification tell me what you think. I would especially like to know if the base stock of the new AMSOIL Signature Series 5w30 I've been using is 100% group IV. I really appreciate all the feedback I have gotten so far, and I am very open to it all. Thank you!
Trav - Since I have been out of the oil loop for awhile I dont recall much about the GTL process vs PAO, and I will have to do some research on PU. I am definitely interested in it, especailly as its predecessor PP intrigued me a few years ago as possibly better than Mobil 1. If PU is better than amsoil, then it could definitely be a contender for what I need. Seeing what a confirmed PAO based oil did for my car and the science behind it I really kind of want to stick with this type of top tier motor oil.
Caterham - My assumption that the GC base stock was better than the amsoil 0w30 was merely from recalling the specs and oppinions that I read here a few years ago. I could definitely be mistaken on that one. I do remember quite clearly that the amsoil 0w30 and 5w30 used the same base stock but the 5w30 had a viscosity modifier thrown in. Also I have never tried the amsoil 0w30 only the 5w30 API SL that was available then and quit being available about a year ago when they changed their top tier 5w30 to the API SM grade signature series. At that time given my consumption with mobil 1 and royal purple, I was very hesitant to try anything but the reccomended grade or higher.
Art Vandelay - I agreed with you then and I agree with you now about GC being most likely a PAO and the green and gold using the same base. Mobil 1 was my default oil until I got this car in which its performance was less than I had expected. This led to research concluding that after Mobil lost its suit against castrol for claiming that their group III Hydrocracked was a "full synthetic" (go figure) they had little reason to continue using the more expensive PAO base that had earned Mobil 1 its outstanding reputation, which again recalling from the pase seemed to be superior to both GC and amsoil at the time they used it. To most folks who ask I still reccomend Mobil 1 if I dont want to get lynched, PP intrigued me when it came out, but I had already found my oil and didn't bother researching it.
Pablo and Quattro Pete - You were asking about my car. I deliberately did not mention it to reduce flames and getting told blanket statements and "you dont need all that" [censored]. I do. The car has a 03' toyota 2zz-ge engine 1.8L running 11.5:1 pistons, with various intake and electrical mods that have increased fuel efficiency from 10-16 to 21-33 and the ability to pull in 6th at 75mph down to 45mph with AC on. It is a heavier vehicle than the engine was designed for by a few hundred lbs and has slightly lower gears to match. It is a daily driver with 145k miles on it, and used amsoil 5w30 since 55k with 5k OCIs. I regularly engage in spirited driving to 130mph on long safe stretches as well as on a few certain turns that I like to push the cars limits. The car has no mechanical problems, and regular maintenence is meticulously performed with oem or racing grade parts. For reference Mobil 1 5w30 begins to consume oil at 3k miles 1/2 qt from 3k to 4k and a full qt from 4k to 5k if I let it go by accident. The older amsoil 5w30 API SL probably began to consume at between 4.5k and 5k as when I tried a 7500k OCI only 1/2 qt had been consumed. I stuck to 5k OCIs with this oil and had barely noticeable consumption. Now that this oil has been replaced with the SS 5w30 in API SM, consumption increased to 1/2 to 3/4qt after 5k. This was not a gradual change, and occured with the switch to the SS. I have thoroughly checked the car and performed a few tests and taken some precautions that I thought may have been the culprit, but 3 changes later and still the same amount of consumption.
Ok now that you guys are armed with new info and some clarification tell me what you think. I would especially like to know if the base stock of the new AMSOIL Signature Series 5w30 I've been using is 100% group IV. I really appreciate all the feedback I have gotten so far, and I am very open to it all. Thank you!
Originally Posted By: R4Klimas
Ok now that you guys are armed with new info and some clarification tell me what you think. I would especially like to know if the base stock of the new AMSOIL Signature Series 5w30 I've been using is 100% group IV. I really appreciate all the feedback I have gotten so far, and I am very open to it all. Thank you!
Since your car is modified, driven hard and you're concerned about consumption do yourself the favor of putting German Castrol 0w30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 at the top of your list.
Don't let the numbers fool you. These two oils are actually very close to each other in terms of practical viscosity. So much so that you can use them interchangeably in your application without a second thought. German Castrol is about as thick as a 30 weight oil gets.
Mobil 1 0W-40 is the State of the Art in high performance motor oil. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and even the Nissan GT-R supercar all use and thrive on its excellence. You cannot do better.
I'd try them both back to back and simply pick whichever one does better in your vehicle. You'll be using the two best off the shelf oils available in the United States. So you can only win.
Ok now that you guys are armed with new info and some clarification tell me what you think. I would especially like to know if the base stock of the new AMSOIL Signature Series 5w30 I've been using is 100% group IV. I really appreciate all the feedback I have gotten so far, and I am very open to it all. Thank you!
Since your car is modified, driven hard and you're concerned about consumption do yourself the favor of putting German Castrol 0w30 and Mobil 1 0W-40 at the top of your list.
Don't let the numbers fool you. These two oils are actually very close to each other in terms of practical viscosity. So much so that you can use them interchangeably in your application without a second thought. German Castrol is about as thick as a 30 weight oil gets.
Mobil 1 0W-40 is the State of the Art in high performance motor oil. BMW, Mercedes, Porsche and even the Nissan GT-R supercar all use and thrive on its excellence. You cannot do better.
I'd try them both back to back and simply pick whichever one does better in your vehicle. You'll be using the two best off the shelf oils available in the United States. So you can only win.
Originally Posted By: Torrid
If it went away I would either switch back to Mobil 1 0w40 or use Castrol Edge 5w50 which specifies that it is for classic cars.
Castrol Edge 0w-40 is now also available. It has a pour point of -60C, if that says anything about its base oil composition.
If it went away I would either switch back to Mobil 1 0w40 or use Castrol Edge 5w50 which specifies that it is for classic cars.
Castrol Edge 0w-40 is now also available. It has a pour point of -60C, if that says anything about its base oil composition.
Wow 5k with amsoil!! Bet thats a clean engine. Do you ever run any fuel additives? Maybe something to clean out carbon? Have you thought about a piston soak? Im not suggesting you have sticky rings but but it probably wouldn't hurt just to see if you can curb consumption a little.
Originally Posted By: R4Klimas
Seeking the absolute best oil in or around 5w30 wt, I came across 2 choices that used a true group IV PAO base stock. It boiled down to GC and amsoil. I eventually went with the amsoil given that it was available in 5w30 as opposed to only 0w30.
I know that some will say that going from a 5w30 to 0w30 shouldnt matter especially when talking about either of these two awesome oils. I've read the facts and im just not quite sure about it especially given that my car consumed a considerable amount of every oil I have tried except the amsoil.
I understand where you are coming from and the way you are perceiving this. Correct me if I am wrong...
- Your preference for 5w30 over 0w30 has to do with your assumption that a "0" rating would increase consumption because it's lighter and naturally more prone to usage?
- - German Castrol 0w30 is in fact heavier than every 5w30 sold in America. All the "0" means is that it will flow better than a "5" as you approach and exceed arctic temperatures.
Do not get hung up on needing 5w30. The use of German Castrol 0w30 will reduce oil consumption, in your car, (as opposed to 5w30) NOT increase it.
It's the most shear stable, stay-in-grade, long life 30 weight you can buy.
Satisfy your curiosity for this PAO based, German, miracle in a bottle.
Seeking the absolute best oil in or around 5w30 wt, I came across 2 choices that used a true group IV PAO base stock. It boiled down to GC and amsoil. I eventually went with the amsoil given that it was available in 5w30 as opposed to only 0w30.
I know that some will say that going from a 5w30 to 0w30 shouldnt matter especially when talking about either of these two awesome oils. I've read the facts and im just not quite sure about it especially given that my car consumed a considerable amount of every oil I have tried except the amsoil.
I understand where you are coming from and the way you are perceiving this. Correct me if I am wrong...
- Your preference for 5w30 over 0w30 has to do with your assumption that a "0" rating would increase consumption because it's lighter and naturally more prone to usage?
- - German Castrol 0w30 is in fact heavier than every 5w30 sold in America. All the "0" means is that it will flow better than a "5" as you approach and exceed arctic temperatures.
Do not get hung up on needing 5w30. The use of German Castrol 0w30 will reduce oil consumption, in your car, (as opposed to 5w30) NOT increase it.
It's the most shear stable, stay-in-grade, long life 30 weight you can buy.
Satisfy your curiosity for this PAO based, German, miracle in a bottle.
Art_Vandelay - Ahhh yes I remember now that the shear stability of GC is really what had me thinking that its base was probably superior to the amsoil. In my application it seems that shearing is probably whats causing the consumption. You are absolutely correct in my reasoning, I just figured there HAS to be something to it: why would a company like Amsoil dilute their highly engineered base product with something that would serve to decrease cold flow properties without additional benefit somewhere? What could that benefit be? I am kind of anxious to hear Pablo's responses to these questions and the previous ones I had regarding the new SS 5w30.
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at. Does the Mobil 1 0w40 use a 100% PAO base? I am also curious as to how you feel about Amsoil as well as the new PU?
electrolover - you bet its clean! For fuel additives I have tried a ton and settled on Amsoil P.i. The P.i. is awesome, its a multi-cleaner and upper cylinder lube supposed to last 4k miles that I have been using for maybe the last 35k miles, one tank before every oil change. It is so awesome that at 125k I used the older Amsoil engine flush in my oil (not available now), and the Amsoil trans flush as well, cleaning all kinds of junk out and really making my car sound mean and smooth. The gas I have settled on for this car is Chevron 93 exclusively. My pistons are spotless now, and they were some of the worst I have seen when I bought the car at 30k miles in its original configuration. I may sound like an Amsoil fanboy but I'm not, they do have some great products, but some are not ideal for my car. For instance I don't like their filters, and my trans doesn't like their MTG as much as some other gear oils, but I did try em out.
This is great stuff, you guys are so helpful and I highly value the opinions I am getting here.
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at. Does the Mobil 1 0w40 use a 100% PAO base? I am also curious as to how you feel about Amsoil as well as the new PU?
electrolover - you bet its clean! For fuel additives I have tried a ton and settled on Amsoil P.i. The P.i. is awesome, its a multi-cleaner and upper cylinder lube supposed to last 4k miles that I have been using for maybe the last 35k miles, one tank before every oil change. It is so awesome that at 125k I used the older Amsoil engine flush in my oil (not available now), and the Amsoil trans flush as well, cleaning all kinds of junk out and really making my car sound mean and smooth. The gas I have settled on for this car is Chevron 93 exclusively. My pistons are spotless now, and they were some of the worst I have seen when I bought the car at 30k miles in its original configuration. I may sound like an Amsoil fanboy but I'm not, they do have some great products, but some are not ideal for my car. For instance I don't like their filters, and my trans doesn't like their MTG as much as some other gear oils, but I did try em out.
This is great stuff, you guys are so helpful and I highly value the opinions I am getting here.
Originally Posted By: R4Klimas
Art_Vandelay - Ahhh yes I remember now that the shear stability of GC is really what had me thinking that its base was probably superior to the amsoil. In my application it seems that shearing is probably whats causing the consumption. You are absolutely correct in my reasoning, I just figured there HAS to be something to it: why would a company like Amsoil dilute their highly engineered base product with something that would serve to decrease cold flow properties without additional benefit somewhere? What could that benefit be? I am kind of anxious to hear Pablo's responses to these questions and the previous ones I had regarding the new SS 5w30.
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at. Does the Mobil 1 0w40 use a 100% PAO base? I am also curious as to how you feel about Amsoil as well as the new PU?
Mobil 1 0W-40 is not 100% PAO based. However, it surely has a decent amount of it in there. Many people would say that it's superior to German Castrol in that it is a much more modern formulation. It's Mobil's Flagship product without question.
What you need to consider is that almost all 5w30 oils are formulated for fuel efficiency. Everything labeled as SM or SN will fall into that category.
None of the European formulas such as 0w30 and 0W-40 are formulated for fuel efficiency. These are the oils that suit your modified car better in my opinion.
I don't know that much about Amsoil's 5w30. I'm sure it's a top notch product. But again it's 5w30 and I think you should forget all 5w30s.
Pennzoil Ultra also is excellent oil but their 5W-40 is the only one I'd be interested in if I were you. But I'd still use the OW's over it.
Art_Vandelay - Ahhh yes I remember now that the shear stability of GC is really what had me thinking that its base was probably superior to the amsoil. In my application it seems that shearing is probably whats causing the consumption. You are absolutely correct in my reasoning, I just figured there HAS to be something to it: why would a company like Amsoil dilute their highly engineered base product with something that would serve to decrease cold flow properties without additional benefit somewhere? What could that benefit be? I am kind of anxious to hear Pablo's responses to these questions and the previous ones I had regarding the new SS 5w30.
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at. Does the Mobil 1 0w40 use a 100% PAO base? I am also curious as to how you feel about Amsoil as well as the new PU?
Mobil 1 0W-40 is not 100% PAO based. However, it surely has a decent amount of it in there. Many people would say that it's superior to German Castrol in that it is a much more modern formulation. It's Mobil's Flagship product without question.
What you need to consider is that almost all 5w30 oils are formulated for fuel efficiency. Everything labeled as SM or SN will fall into that category.
None of the European formulas such as 0w30 and 0W-40 are formulated for fuel efficiency. These are the oils that suit your modified car better in my opinion.
I don't know that much about Amsoil's 5w30. I'm sure it's a top notch product. But again it's 5w30 and I think you should forget all 5w30s.
Pennzoil Ultra also is excellent oil but their 5W-40 is the only one I'd be interested in if I were you. But I'd still use the OW's over it.
Originally Posted By: R4Klimas
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at.
Not easy to find, but if you have Advance Auto Parts there some stores carry it and it's even on sale at a killer price, BOGO deal right now.
In the whole metro area here only one Advance stocks it so I'm going to have to make a drive across town I guess to get some.
Regarding GC, its clearly a front runner, and I hope I can find it where I am at.
Not easy to find, but if you have Advance Auto Parts there some stores carry it and it's even on sale at a killer price, BOGO deal right now.
In the whole metro area here only one Advance stocks it so I'm going to have to make a drive across town I guess to get some.
Originally Posted By: KCJeep
Not easy to find, but if you have Advance Auto Parts there some stores carry it
AutoZone and PepBoys carry it, too.
Not easy to find, but if you have Advance Auto Parts there some stores carry it
AutoZone and PepBoys carry it, too.
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