Snow chains vs socks?

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Jan 8, 2013
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Location
Michigan
I have zero experience with snow chains or socks. Without any experience I would guess that chains would be much better than socks. My daughter, who just moved to Seattle, is asking advice on what are the the best tire chains and if socks should be considered. She plans on driving her AWD Audi A4 to ski resorts in the area. What say the experts on BITOG? Are chains indeed better? If so, is any particular style or brand of snow chains preferred? Thank in advance for your input.
 
neither. top tier winter tires and awd is a good combo..

carry socks if required for any applicable chain laws.

they will self destruct in a short time if used.

will chains even fit an A4 or do you need to buy smaller wheels and tires?

Chains require very low speed driving and can be a major pain to install
esp. if you have to install and remove them several times per trip.

Opinion: not many people will install chains correctly.. and they can cause severe damage.
 
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I’ve lived in snowy, mountainous areas for the better part of my life. Nobody who is serious about safety uses anything but true chains. I’ve never seen the “socks” in use. Known a few people who tried those steel roller cable things and they all broke relatively quickly.

I’d say I drive about 200 miles a year in a 4WD vehicle with chains, usually in very deep snow, sometimes ice. I work in law enforcement full time and on call fire/EMS so my work doesn’t stop when the weather is bad.

Buy good quality chains and practice putting them on, tightening, and removing them in all sorts of weather. I’m serious. Even if she doesn’t have to travel on the day of a storm, go outside and chain up the car just to see how difficult it is compared to on a nice sunny day.

I’ve heard all sorts of advice about tightening— how often, at what distance, speed, etc. If I’m running chains, I’m probably never going to see the speedometer go over 20MPH. That being said, I stop and check/tighten/adjust every 1/4 mile or so. Never more than half a mile. Sometimes I find it needs it, sometimes not. Sometimes I can go miles before the chains needs to be adjusted in any way.

Want to know what happens to your wheel wells if you don’t chain properly or keep them tight? Look for a video of a WWII “flail tank” and imagine
that going on in your wheel well!

I use chains on both my 4Runner and K5 Blazer. Both also have snow tires. A current-generation Toyota 4WD system with good snow tires (I chose Geolandars) is almost as good in snow as my heavy old truck with chains. So my unscientific opinion is that running just snow tires on a modern car may be a workable option, as someone mentioned.
 
neither. top tier winter tires and awd is a good combo..

carry socks if required for any applicable chain laws.

they will self destruct in a short time if used.

will chains even fit an A4 or do you need to buy smaller wheels and tires?

Chains require very low speed driving and can be a major pain to install
esp. if you have to install and remove them several times per trip.

Opinion: not many people will install chains correctly.. and they can cause severe damage.
I believe chains are required by law in some areas. If she is required to have them available, I would prefer that they are as effective and easy to use as possible.
 
I believe chains are required by law in some areas. If she is required to have them available, I would prefer that they are as effective and easy to use as possible.

well I dont know much about her location but here is the california definition.

3 stages of chain restrictions.

R-1: Chains required. Passenger vehicles and light trucks OK with snow tires (only required on drive axle.) ALL VEHICLES MUST CARRY CHAINS.

R-2: Chains required. 4 wheel drive OK with snow tires (presumably required on all 4 corners). ALL VEHICLES MUST CARRY CHAINS.

R-3: All vehicles must chain up. NO EXCEPTIONS.

R-3 roads are usually closed first.


Would you trust your daughter to do a brake job on her audi?
its probably easier than correctly installing chains during a snowstorm in bad conditions.

but you are in luck the owners manual for the audi specifically states no chains IIRC.

so she can carry them for the law but wont be using them.

Chains are mildly terrible on road (good on tractor etc)
you will be driving 10mph and checking them every mile or 2. If its that bad its stay home time anyway.

Get good winter tires on separate wheels such as blizzak ws-90, continential vikingcontact 7, nokian R3 etc.
 
If the weather condition becomes bad enough, like this weekend, the WSDOT will require tire chains for going over the Passes. Without chains, a $500 ticket can be issued to the driver should he/she gets pulled over. AWD vehicles with proper winter tires are normally exempted for obvious reasons, however, it is still advised they that carry a set of tire chains inside the car just in case.
 
Get a set ( all 4 ) of rims and Bridgestone Blizzaks WS-90 tires. So they are on their own rims. And be sure to remove them before the weather gets hot. They will wear out very quickly if ran when the weather is warm. (Reduce the pressure to 5 PSI and store them on their side and with bricks holding them off the ground so air can flow when not in use). And protect them from sun when not in use.

But they are like being stuck to the road when driving in snow, and even have some traction on ice even though they are not stud-able.

Blizzaks are amazing tires in snow and very decent to have even on ice. But they can not handle being used in warm weather without wearing out quickly. Use them only when it is cold and you can get many miles and seasons out of them. I have used them on both vehicles we had in the past, on all 4 tires of both vehicles and they are great.

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As for chains, give the people at "Tire Chains R US .com" a phone call or visit their web site. The chains you want for a vehicle like that are the

"Passengers - Twist Link". They are the good chains that have the highest speed rating.

And get 2 sets (2 to a set) of the Spider Bungee 0216 Light Truck - Pair Chain Adjusters, 4 in total,

so you can always run 2 per wheel that has chains on it. These spider tensioners work out nice with 2 per wheel, in that with most sizes you can have an arm of the spider pulling on the middle of each chain on the side of the tire that links the tread chains together. If there is one link that does not get a tensioner arm make that the one with the connection that close the loop.

(Actually, they are rubber tensioners that pull the chains tight). Anyone who really knows what they are doing with chins always runs two sets of tensioners, not one. In other words, two per tire.

Most AWD vehicles like SUVs run the chains on the front tires only.

It is very important to Pre-fit the chains to the tires and be sure to use 12 gauge solid copper wire ( that is normally used to wire a house, with the insulation removed ) to tie down any unused extra links of chain where the inside connection is made to close the loop when you install the chains. If you let even one link hang free it usually will manage to hit and break something like an ABS wheel movement sensor wire, and or a brake line. And that turns a marginally bad day into a really bad day.

The chains from Tire Chains R Us come in a nice plastic box that you can fit the chains, and both sets of tensioners and some extra 12 ga solid bare wire and wire cutters incase you have to adjust the chain length, and a long black ( because black show up nice in snow ) piece ( about 3 feet long ) of 12 ga solid wire for pulling the free end of chain under the tire when installing without having to lay your arm under the tire in the snow (which you usually end up doing if you do not have that wire when installing them in snow conditions).

Chains are rated for up to 30 MPH. But anyone who knows what they are doing never goes over 20 MPH even with using 2 sets of tensioners.

The number one rule of using chains is NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE THE VEHICLE ENOUGH GAS PEDDLE TO CAUSE A TIRE TO SPIN.

The number two rule of using chains is NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE THE VEHICLE ENOUGH GAS PEDDLE TO CAUSE A TIRE TO SPIN.

The number three rule of using chains is NEVER NEVER NEVER GIVE THE VEHICLE ENOUGH GAS PEDDLE TO CAUSE A TIRE TO SPIN.


Spinning a wheel with chain on it will destroy the chain in a very short time. And when that chain breaks you can expect it to damage the vehicle, including ABS wires, and brake lines.

When you get to dry roads, stop and take them off ASAP.
 
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+1 on this: "Would you trust your daughter to do a brake job on her audi?
its probably easier than correctly installing chains during a snowstorm in bad conditions."

My findings are that today's young drivers almost always will never set aside time for someone to watch and school them, while they ( not the instructor ) install and remove a set of chains properly. Remember they first have to get the vehicle on level ground if at all possible, and chock the back tires if putting them on the fronts, (both in front of and behind the tire furthest away from the one they are lifting, or in front of and behind both), remove the jack, jack up one front wheel that is turned with the back of it sticking out, lay the chain out properly in front of the tire with inside link towards middle of vehicle, feed the back of chain under tire while keeping outside towards outside of tire, feed front most over tire, ( connection of links is best made on back part of the tire that is sticking out some with the section that was fed over the tire hanging down, even if the tire is not turned enough so it is sticking out all the way), connect inside links, connect outside links with chain as tight as possible, install tensioners, pull on chain to distribute it equally, let vehicle down,

turn wheels the other way and repeat procedure for other side,

and put away jack and remove chocks.

Sometimes a young woman just does not have the strength to do that job. Some do, but some do not. I am not trying to be discriminating at all. Just realistic. But seriously, that is something to take into consideration.

And start by doing instillation on both front tires on a decent day. Besides, that will give a great opportunity to pre-fit the chains and tie down any extra inside links if there are any, so they can not flop around and damage the ABS wire or brake line in the future if the chains are ever actually used. Just find out how many extra links there are on the inside when doing first install. Tie the extra links down after removing the chains.

The trick to teaching this job to someone is to ONLY watch, and ONLY talk if they need guidance. And NEVER actually do any of the work for them. People learn best by doing, not by being told. When they do it them-self, they will remember how to do it a long time from now.
 
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BTW, the easiest vehicles to install chains on or remove them from are the back wheels of any vehicle with dual ( side by side ) wheels. You simply put a 6 X 6 wood block with slopes on front and back and a grove in the middle so the inner tires drive up onto those blocks. Drive it up onto the blocks to raise the outside tires off the ground, install or remove chains, and drive off the blocks.
 
Here are some gloves that will be needed when installing or removing chains in winter conditions.

G & F Products 100% Waterproof Winter Gloves for outdoor cold weather Double Coated Windproof HPT Plam and Fingers Acrylic Terry inner keep hands warm at -58F Large (1628) , Orange​


You can get them from Amazon for less than $20.00 a pair in various sizes. They are very good because they really are double dipped in rubber so they really stay dry. Gloves that get wet quickly get very cold. The -58F rating is a big exaggeration, but these are good enough for keeping hands dry and warm enough long enough for working with chains.

Also include a pair of cotton gloves for turning the crank on a scissors jack. The rubber on the water-proof gloves does not allow the crank of a scissors jack to turn properly when you are wearing them. But those water-proof gloves are great to have for the rest of that job.
 
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Tire cables and tire socks are a joke and a waste of money on something that will quickly fail if ever used for any decent distance.

The chains I recommend are good for traction, good for highway and take up minimum space between the tire and wheel well.

There are more aggressive chins with cross links, but they take up too much space, and really are for use when you know they will never be used on dry roads and only at low speeds. If you have a lot of clearance between the tire and wheel well, and will be using them in deep snow, then the more aggressive chains with cross links are a good choice. But usually, they are too much chain for most vehicles and for most uses.
 
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It really depends on the suspension clearance on the A4 for the chains with the tires (see owner's manual) That's going to dictate what is going to fit behind the tire before it rubs on the suspension and how much one is willing to pay

Of course, for top dollar, you have Konig K-summit and Spikes Spider for chains that don't wrap behind the tire.

socks can be a PITA to install, just like the old style ladder chains.
 
Also have them check that the inside of chain is not too close to the center of the tire on one part, and too far from the center on another part. In other words, equally distributed so it can not hit parts it could damage if not equally distributed.
 
neither. top tier winter tires and awd is a good combo..

carry socks if required for any applicable chain laws.

they will self destruct in a short time if used.

will chains even fit an A4 or do you need to buy smaller wheels and tires?

Chains require very low speed driving and can be a major pain to install
esp. if you have to install and remove them several times per trip.

Opinion: not many people will install chains correctly.. and they can cause severe damage.

Nothing is going to provide better traction on ice or deep snow than moderately decent tires with diagonal chains/cables on all four tires. But the problem is that they have some pretty extreme limitations such as maximum speed, the potential for damage, noise, damage to roads, etc. As you note they're a pain to install and remove. Ladder chains are often cheaper, but they lose traction and regain it as each section makes contact with the road. The diagonal or diamond (Konig) style provide contact contact with the surface.

For a car with extremely tight wheel wells, perhaps the best is the something like the Super Z series from Peerless, which came from their acquisition of Security Chain. Other companies like Cobra have a similar chain. These are really good because they're a lot easier to install. Ladder chains are a huge pain to install. I've never had to install chains during winter conditions before, but carry them for winter driving and have installed my Super Z6 pair in my driveway for practice. They're much easier because they just sweep in and then rubber tighteners are used to remove all slack. They require no adjustment like ladder chains that are supposed to be driven a few feet and retightened.



I've packed a few things in with them, including an old headlamp and some old gardening kneepads. The chains actually came with a pretty cheap looking ice scraper and plastic gloves like the kind used by restaurant workers.
 
well I dont know much about her location but here is the california definition.

3 stages of chain restrictions.

R-1: Chains required. Passenger vehicles and light trucks OK with snow tires (only required on drive axle.) ALL VEHICLES MUST CARRY CHAINS.

R-2: Chains required. 4 wheel drive OK with snow tires (presumably required on all 4 corners). ALL VEHICLES MUST CARRY CHAINS.

R-3: All vehicles must chain up. NO EXCEPTIONS.

R-3 roads are usually closed first.


Would you trust your daughter to do a brake job on her audi?
its probably easier than correctly installing chains during a snowstorm in bad conditions.

but you are in luck the owners manual for the audi specifically states no chains IIRC.

so she can carry them for the law but wont be using them.

Chains are mildly terrible on road (good on tractor etc)
you will be driving 10mph and checking them every mile or 2. If its that bad its stay home time anyway.

Get good winter tires on separate wheels such as blizzak ws-90, continential vikingcontact 7, nokian R3 etc.

Here's Washington, although the nearby locations to visit would include British Columbia and Oregon.


They claim 4 escalating conditions:

TRACTION TIRES ADVISED (all season)
TRACTION TIRES REQUIRED
TIRE CHAINS REQUIRED (with an exception for AWD/4WD)
CHAINS REQUIRED ON ALL VEHICLES

There's a 5th condition which is road closed. I've understood that the California R3 condition almost never happens, because Caltrans, counties, or the National Park Service (which operates under California chain standards in California) will just close a road. But they have a requirement that all vehicles much carry chains when there are chain conditions, although I've been never asked to show them in my Subaru.

I've heard that studded tires are somewhat overrated, as they really only help if there's ice.

It looks like Washington also allows "chain monkeys" or mobile installers to install, remove, and repair chains. There's also a fixed service price set by the state. They're not allowed to sell chains though.

What will it cost?​

  • Passenger vehicle/light duty truck chain installation: $25 per vehicle
  • Passenger vehicle/light duty truck chain removal: $10 per vehicle
  • Sale of chain tighteners/elastic cords $3 each tightener or cord
  • Repair of broken or missing chain link $5 each link
  • Large truck (vehicles over 10,000 GVW) - chain installation: $25 per tire chained
  • Large truck (vehicles over 10,000 GVW) - Chain removal: $5 per tire chain removed
As for the alternatives, the Washington State Patrol does have a list of approved alternative traction control devices that will be allowed to substitute for chains, but not everything is on it. I don't see the one from Michelin, although that might have been discontinued. Strike that - the SOS Grip is their latest offering. They don't specially say what's needed for AWD, but I suppose the usual requirement is to put them on the front wheels for steering and


alt_traction_device.pdf


My French sucks. Anyone can translate?

 
This is a 5 year old review but Tire Socks . As others said, get her true winter tires and if she has room to store them get them on dedicated rims so it's just like changing a flat tire. You'll save $$ in the long run vs. $100+ each fall and $100+ each spring to dismount/remount the tire on rim. Factory rims can be found on craigslist, FB marketplace, ebay etc. or get a decent aftermarket set ready to go from TireRack etc. You can get studded versions but they are noisy on dry roads and less grip on dry BUT will help on ice.

The chains and socks limit speed to about 20mph.

Read the other threads on here about recommendations.

Since she'll probably never need them, if the socks fit the DOT criteria for chains, probably easiest and lightest to store and install for her to keep in the back. That also leads into the "other" supplies to keep. Work Gloves, Collapsible shovel (aluminum, not plastic), Recovery Tow strap (preferably kinetic recovery, like MasterPull, Bubba Rope, ASR) and some soft shackles, and a hitch pin. Then know where to attach them on her vehicle (like the thread in eye hook) but solid somewhere even better. The hitch pin is so if a someone with a hitch wants to help her, insert the rope loop into receiver and secure with the pin. It's stronger than the D loop shackles that attach into same place. She will have most of what she might need to help herself if stuck. Don't rely on others to know or have what is needed. The tow "straps" are good, work well, not expensive. The Kinetic is less stress on both vehicles, watch a video or 10.
 
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It sounds like she would be going up to ski fairly regularly. If that’s the case then winter tires would be a great advantage. She doesn’t want to wreck that Audi. Have the chains available just in case.

I’m in the area. The mountains just got up to 3 feet of new snow in the past 24-36 hours. That’s typical. The snow just dumps sometimes. The passes will close for avalanche control or if conditions are too extreme.

She should also have in her car a bag with blankets, food stuff, etc in case she gets stuck for hours. That is a real possibility here.
 
Several flashlights. One that I keep by my spare tire has a tripod stand. That is nice to use at night when working on a tire because it keeps the flashlight off the ground and is adjustable. Put new batteries in every fall.

Studded tires usually start shedding studs the second year of use. And will shed studs if the tires are spun. Once they start shedding studs get some good plyers and remove the rest, so the tire stays balanced.

A winter sleeping bag would be a good idea. Probably will never use it, but if she ever gets stranded it is a big deal to have along.

She should know to remove snow from around the tail pipe when running the engine to stay warm, if she is stuck somewhere and it is snowing.
 
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If she is into skiing I would not make the trip there if a blizzard/heavy snow warning in effect. If skiing and warning hits stay the extra night until it passes. I do highly recommend 4 quality snow tires for the the Audi. Back in my skiing days this is what I did never had a issue.
 
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