Smaller Oil Filter & Mann Hummel Equivalents?

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7
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North Jersey
Hello everyone, I'm a new member, and have been lurking from time to time regarding oil and oil filter selection. I decided to join, and create this post since I've been recently doing some oil changes and have noticed some things that we're alarming. The first was when I changed the oil on my mother's Accord I immediately noticed the oil filter was smaller than the newer one Napa Pro Select, see attached. The smaller blue Mobil filter is from a local quick lube/car wash place. I also noticed my cousin who's truck uses the same exact filter had this smaller filter on it as well. My cousin said he wanted to continue to use the quick lube place, put provide me the oil filter, so he asked me what to get. I though the Napa or Carquest was a good choice, and left it at that. Now what really has me concerned is the oil filter rebadge game. I, for the longest time though Napa Gold and Carquest Premium (Blue) was rebranded Wix oil filers which has always gotten good reviews. I work at smaller alternative high school for students with emotional/behavioral problems, and one thing I've been trying to do is infuse 'vocational skills' to some of my students. I have been doing a small engine class, and now I'm shifting gears to basic car maintenance (locating items, changing flats, tire depth, tire pressure) and now oil changes. Luckily for me a lot of my co-workers don't take immaculate care of their cars, and gladly let the kids work on them with my incredibly close supervision. It's more like I do most of the work, while my students observe. I haven't been overly concerned with the type of oil, I've been using the cheapest name brand dino I can get in the correct weight from Amazon (Usually Chevron Havoline or Supreme). What has gotten me concerned is the oil filters. I didn't realize Advance Auto Parts sold Carquest until last time I was there getting something else. After researching this topic, it seems as though Mann Hummel has owned or provided rebranding for Napa, Carquest, Purolator and Wix. I did an oil change this past week for a coworker and used a Napa Select oil filter which was clearly labelled Mann Hummel. Even going on the Wix and Purolator website it says Mann Hummel right on it. Looking at the filter lineups it looks like: Wix XP = Purolator BOSS = Napa Platinum Wix black = Purolator Pure One = Napa Gold = Carquest Premium Wix ProTect = Purolator (Red) = Napa Silver/Pro Select = Carquest Red That's just me trying to decipher and connect each filter to it's re-branded counterpart. I didn't realize until I searched on Google and this forum that people have had problems with Purolators pleats tearing both classics and pure one, which means most of the oil filters would theoretically be in that category. I'm now rethinking what filters I should use for my personal vehicles along with my co-workers? I just ordered 5 carquest premium from AAP with their promos and I had speed perks credits. Are there other brands that Mann Hummel equivalent would fall under? What filters would you use for my 'auto tech' class? It seems like all my local auto stores have the same filters (Carquest, Napa, AAP and Autozone). Any help/corrections would be appreciated. Thanks!
 
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25,964
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PNW
If that filter from you mom's Accord the factory filter? If so, they always seem to come from the factory with a larger filter. If you're working on other people's cars I wouldn't try to "up size" the filter, but just use the one the filter manufacturer specifies. Lots of options out there. You concerned about price, efficiency, how it's constructed? Depending what's the top few reasons for the filter choice it might focus in closer on what to buy. Welcome to the board. grin2 Maybe go for one of these if these stores are around your area - LINK PS - personally I'd stay away from filters that are still showing a media tearing issue.
 

JaCkaL829

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7
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North Jersey
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Lots of options out there. You concerned about price, efficiency, how it's constructed? Depending what's the top few reasons for the filter choice it might focus in closer on what to buy. Welcome to the board. grin2 PS - personally I'd stay away from filters that are still showing a media tearing issue.
Those are my thoughts too, as for price I'd like to keep the price $10 or under for my co-workers and something I can possibly get locally. When you say lots of options do you mean options not under the Mann Hummel umbrella? I had a bad experience with Fram (orange can) many years ago, oil leaking out of the sure grip with a couple different vehicles so I've only purchased anything non Fram. Obviously a lot can change since than and it appears companies are re-branding auto parts frequently.
 
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6,169
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Scruffy City
It isn’t uncommon for the quick lube places to consolidate filters so that they do not have to stock as many, For the Accord the spec filter is likely a 7317 size and the shorter version is (I believe) a 6607 more typically spec'ed for Nissans. BTW it would be interesting to see what is inside the blue mobil filter. M+H acquired WIX, but as yet it doesn’t appear that WIX = Purolator. If you search post created by me, you will find unused Honda sized red, blue and grey Purolators as well as a Wix and a Wix XP cut open. They aren’t the same. Incidentally you’ll also find Mobil 1, Fram and both versions of the Honda filter cut open, though I’m not positive I’ve done a Virgin A01 Honda, they are out there on the internet for sure though.
 

JaCkaL829

Thread starter
Messages
7
Location
North Jersey
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
If that filter from you mom's Accord the factory filter? If so, they always seem to come from the factory with a larger filter. If you're working on other people's cars I wouldn't try to "up size" the filter, but just use the one the filter manufacturer specifies.
The white Pro Select filter is OEM spec. Only reason I know is because my wife has a 2014 CR-V which uses the same exact filter. I ordered half a dozen of OEM filters for my wife's car while it's under warranty, and it's the same size as that Napa Select filter in my picture. The quick lube place is putting on smaller filters than OEM spec which I felt can lead to long term issues. This is kinda what started my whole oil filter exploration lol
 
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10,606
Location
Cincinnati, OH, USA
If you stay within a factory OCI on a CLEAN engine, the smaller filter won't hurt anything (and might even be slightly better because it will become more efficient, faster. But if your coworkers like to push things too far (like my brother on his Corolla & Altima, always trying to go 10K+ on any oil/filter), might not want to use the shrunken jobber filters, they may load up & go into bypass faster.
 
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6,169
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BTW and FWIW. If you search for HAMP “shorty” filters on Amazon (HAMP is Honda After Market Parts not normally available in the US) you will find the claims that the “shorty” filter is better for higher revving engines and results in increased oil pressure. These filters are made by FilTech in the US.
 
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25,964
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A bogus claim, a smaller oil filter will not increase engine oil pressure. If anything, it will decrease oil pressure at near redline when the pump hits pressure relief because it most likely has a bit more flow resistance compared to the same filter in a larger size.
 

JaCkaL829

Thread starter
Messages
7
Location
North Jersey
I never planned on running smaller filters, I was just alarmed that the quick lube shop was using smaller filters. I know I've seen people running oversized filters, but I just figured smaller wasn't necessarily better. I do know quite a few people who have their oil changed religiously at that place and don't have any oil problems to date, granted most of those vehicles are relatively new. I actually have heard of HAMP before, I had an Acura RSX for 10 years and learned a lot from ClubRSX. I never used the HAMP as they we're pricey at the time. The Honda OEM filters I have for my wife's car are actually the 01s stamped made by Filtech as if I recall they we're made better. I was hoping to stop ordering OEM for my vehicles and was hoping to find a good, locally found alternative but now I don't know.
 
In the end none of us know until we make it to some hoped for number like 200,000 miles. Very few vehicles make it that long. Most are crushed or sold off by their owners before then, yet we the Bitogs are totally iimersed in doing what gives us the best change to have a well running engine when the car departs from our ownership. Just checked the net. Only 1.3% of vehicles in the USA have over 200,000 miles.
 
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A01 (Used - Same as HAMP large, HAMP are even blue now) A02 M1 WIX XP WIX Extra Guard Tough Guard Ultra Boss One Classic Red
 
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25,964
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Originally Posted By: JaCkaL829
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Lots of options out there. You concerned about price, efficiency, how it's constructed? Depending what's the top few reasons for the filter choice it might focus in closer on what to buy. Welcome to the board. grin2 PS - personally I'd stay away from filters that are still showing a media tearing issue.
Those are my thoughts too, as for price I'd like to keep the price $10 or under for my co-workers and something I can possibly get locally. When you say lots of options do you mean options not under the Mann Hummel umbrella? I had a bad experience with Fram (orange can) many years ago, oil leaking out of the sure grip with a couple different vehicles so I've only purchased anything non Fram. Obviously a lot can change since than and it appears companies are re-branding auto parts frequently.
I'd run either NAPA Gold or regular WIX, or Fram Ultra or TG. Don't let non-metal end caps scare you ... tons of guys on this board run, cut and post them and there's nothing wrong with them. The NAPA Gold/WIX will be slightly less efficient than the XG or TG, but not enough to worry about. The EG is the same efficiency as the NAPA Gold/WIX. If you don't care about efficiency, then there's lots of filters available that don't have a history of media tearing. Or just OEM. Or if you have one of those Federated Auto Parts stores in you area, get that one I posted in the link earlier. Looks like a good filter for the money.
 
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10,001
Location
Waco, TX
Originally Posted By: Snagglefoot
Just checked the net. Only 1.3% of vehicles in the USA have over 200,000 miles.
Interesting.... I have two trucks (Ford and Chevy) that are BOTH getting close to 300,000 miles each.
 
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6,169
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Scruffy City
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
A bogus claim, a smaller oil filter will not increase engine oil pressure. If anything, it will decrease oil pressure at near redline when the pump hits pressure relief because it most likely has a bit more flow resistance compared to the same filter in a larger size.
Aren’t you they guy that is always going on about how the “positive displacement oil pump” makes the filter restriction moot? Not that I’m saying the claim is true but calling it bogus without investigation is pretty bold. So back to the subject, or two subjects actually: 1) Filter downsizing - That is common in the quick oil change industry and not unique to M+H supplied shops either. 2) What filter to use - For store (or oil company) branded filters they change so often that you almost have to educate yourself about the external indicators and check every one... they can change at a moments notice. If you don’t like Fram and you don’t like M+H then you’re significantly down on choices. M1 filters are Champion (Show us some more pictures of the blue quick lube filter, is it a Champion). For the Honda, you can get both A01 and A02 Honda filters from online suppliers for ~$6.00 ish easy peasy. I frankly think Fram has the best line right now. If we could just get them to get off the sure grip kick (or sell Honda some Ultra guts shoved in a regular Honda can with a p gasket) there would be no reason to even look at anything else. OH, and I got 2 Hondas around here knocking on 200,000...
 
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25,964
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Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
A bogus claim, a smaller oil filter will not increase engine oil pressure. If anything, it will decrease oil pressure at near redline when the pump hits pressure relief because it most likely has a bit more flow resistance compared to the same filter in a larger size.
Aren’t you they guy that is always going on about how the “positive displacement oil pump” makes the filter restriction moot? Not that I’m saying the claim is true but calling it bogus without investigation is pretty bold.
Anyone who fully understands an automotive oiling system would know a smaller more restrictive filter isn't going to increase oil pressure. It would only if the oil pressure sensor was before the filter (that sensor location highly unlikely), but nearly all engines have the oil pressure sensor located after the filter. When the pressure sensor is after the filter, the only time you'd see an oil pressure difference (which means a flow difference to the engine) is when the oil pump in in pressure relief. So yes, a positive displacement oil pump does make the filter restriction moot, expect for when the oil pump is in pressure relief. When the pump is in pressure relief the system changes from a forced volume flow to a fixed pressure source flow. When all those things are understood, then it's easy to see how a more or less restrictive filter is going to influence the operation of the pump, and the flow to the engine.
 
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Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
A bogus claim, a smaller oil filter will not increase engine oil pressure. If anything, it will decrease oil pressure at near redline when the pump hits pressure relief because it most likely has a bit more flow resistance compared to the same filter in a larger size.
Aren’t you they guy that is always going on about how the “positive displacement oil pump” makes the filter restriction moot? Not that I’m saying the claim is true but calling it bogus without investigation is pretty bold.
Anyone who fully understands an automotive oiling system would know a smaller more restrictive filter isn't going to increase oil pressure. It would only if the oil pressure sensor was before the filter (that sensor location highly unlikely), but nearly all engines have the oil pressure sensor located after the filter. When the pressure sensor is after the filter, the only time you'd see an oil pressure difference (which means a flow difference to the engine) is when the oil pump in in pressure relief. So yes, a positive displacement oil pump does make the filter restriction moot, expect for when the oil pump is in pressure relief. When the pump is in pressure relief the system changes from a forced volume flow to a fixed pressure source flow. When all those things are understood, then it’s easy to see how a more or less restrictive filter is going to influence the operation of the pump, and the flow to the engine.
The first flaw in you logic (well after assuming that I don’t understand oiling systems) is that you seem to have assumed that a smaller filter is automatically more restrictive. So you have stated that the claim that the small HAMP filter raises oil pressure and is better for high RPM engines is “Bogus”. Are you sure that there is nothing about that filter or engine that would make it true?
 
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Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
The first flaw in you logic (well after assuming that I don’t understand oiling systems) is that you seem to have assumed that a smaller filter is automatically more restrictive.
The first flaw in your response is you missed a critical statement in my quote:
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
A bogus claim, a smaller oil filter will not increase engine oil pressure. If anything, it will decrease oil pressure at near redline when the pump hits pressure relief because it most likely has a bit more flow resistance compared to the same filter in a larger size.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
So you have stated that the claim that the small HAMP filter raises oil pressure and is better for high RPM engines is “Bogus”. Are you sure that there is nothing about that filter or engine that would make it true?
Yeah, I'm claiming it's 'bogus'. Again, I said comparing a small vs large filter of the same media. If the claim by the seller (or reviewers on Amazon) is that the smaller HAMP filter increases oil pressure at high RPM then it must be Swiss cheese media. I'd venture to say the people making those claims have zero flow or dealt-p across the filter data to back up that claim, and don't know anything about how an oiling system works.
Originally Posted By: DuckRyder
If you search for HAMP “shorty” filters on Amazon (HAMP is Honda After Market Parts not normally available in the US) you will find the claims that the “shorty” filter is better for higher revving engines and results in increased oil pressure.
 
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