Sludged engine help ( I know dead horse), but confused)

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This is one of the nuttiest sludge videos I've seen on Youtube. He used white spirit and diesel. His results in the end actually came out fine on a lab test, though that test is in a second video.
 
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Originally Posted by celicaxx
This is one of the nuttiest sludge videos I've seen on Youtube. He used white spirit and diesel. His results in the end actually came out fine on a lab test, though that test is in a second video.
Yeah, I've heard of using diesel too. Not sure which, diesel or kerosene, would have a greater cleaning effect. Though I'm sure it was cheaper using the diesel instead of multiple containers of white spirits which def' got things going/opened up.
 
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Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
I would do one thing differently. Final oil change with M1 High Mileage 5w30, no additives.
While it is a GM engine it is modified my Saab to stand the turbo stress. Why would you not use a higher ester based 3.5 HTHS Euro oil that should have superior cleaning abilities in a Euro car? ESP is one of the very best oils on the market.
I suggested the M1 HM for availability and price, especially if he's running 3000 - 5000 mile ocis to clean up sludge as per Mobil. Good point about the turbo and HTHSv. He could go for the M1 HM 10w30 if that's a concern.
 
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Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
I would do one thing differently. Final oil change with M1 High Mileage 5w30, no additives.
While it is a GM engine it is modified my Saab to stand the turbo stress. Why would you not use a higher ester based 3.5 HTHS Euro oil that should have superior cleaning abilities in a Euro car? ESP is one of the very best oils on the market.
I suggested the M1 HM for availability and price, especially if he's running 3000 - 5000 mile ocis to clean up sludge as per Mobil. Good point about the turbo and HTHSv. He could go for the M1 HM 10w30 if that's a concern.
+1
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
I would do one thing differently. Final oil change with M1 High Mileage 5w30, no additives.
While it is a GM engine it is modified my Saab to stand the turbo stress. Why would you not use a higher ester based 3.5 HTHS Euro oil that should have superior cleaning abilities in a Euro car? ESP is one of the very best oils on the market. [/quote] I'm using M1 ESP. Got a great deal 50 % off at AA with a filter ( got the M1) 6 qts and M1 filter $42. Did the first change and second after 500 miles with ESP You need to remember I've only on this car for a couple months so I have no idea what was in there before. Based on how it was taken care of most likely the cheapest thing out there if it was changed at all. Are use the correct manufacture suggested oil's in all my cars and this engine does Use OW 30 and I've only found that as mobile one ESP locally use OW 30 and I've only found that as mobile one ESP locally I recently had a Saab 95 turbo on the original Turbo running the correct mobile one European spec 235,000 miles. Didn't burn a drop between 5KOCI Some great ideas here I'm going to do the least invasive first change out the pressure sensor and put in 12 ounces of MM. Run it 500 miles do another regular OC with ESP And see where we stand And see where we stand If it doesn't look like that's were completely I think about using the cleaner idea if I can't get the time to drop the sump
 
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NY
Originally Posted by Trav
Originally Posted by CharlieBauer
I would do one thing differently. Final oil change with M1 High Mileage 5w30, no additives.
While it is a GM engine it is modified my Saab to stand the turbo stress. Why would you not use a higher ester based 3.5 HTHS Euro oil that should have superior cleaning abilities in a Euro car? ESP is one of the very best oils on the market. [/quote] ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ESP is a great choice for that application.
 
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Kingston
Is this related to the engine that was in some of the Saturn L series cars back in the day when I worked at Saturn? The techs always referred to the optional v6 in them as "the Saab engine". I don't recall any catastrophic failures but we didn't see many of them and the techs didn't particularly like working on them because they were harder to work on compared to an ecotec or old Saturn 1.9L.
 

jssaab

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Originally Posted by caprice_2nv
Is this related to the engine that was in some of the Saturn L series cars back in the day when I worked at Saturn? The techs always referred to the optional v6 in them as "the Saab engine". I don't recall any catastrophic failures but we didn't see many of them and the techs didn't particularly like working on them because they were harder to work on compared to an ecotec or old Saturn 1.9L.
Somewhat related I think. Its the LP9 manufactured in Australia by Holden used in GM opel in europe and Holden they were modified for turbo by Saab in Sweden. Newer version was used in the SRX Caddy (and Saab 9-4 of which only 900 were made before the brand ceased to exist. They are quite robust -unless you treat them like sh!t... Saturn used the 4 cyl Saab 2.0 engine in the redline and Chevy used it in Colbalt SS turbo.
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by celicaxx
This is one of the nuttiest sludge videos I've seen on Youtube. He used white spirit and diesel. His results in the end actually came out fine on a lab test, though that test is in a second video.
Saw that video. Mine was not that bad and of course mine was run on the sludge for about 35K miles that just sat and sludged up
 
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jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Yeah I have had engines like that when I pick up an old one to restore. If t has not been run like that you are good. Ok, here's where I am at. 1. Not able to pull the sump and screen ( need to pull the engine to get at it ) 2 Pulled the filter (cartridge) looks mice dark amber color no residue, no metallic flakes after 300 miles 3. Used a magnet on the old oil after it settled, no metal, decanted it (liek a miner) no brass looking in there 4. Pulled the pressure sender. Now what (looking for opinions) 1. I Was thinking if gunk got into the passage where the sender resides I am flush it with MMO (just pours some in there, crank the engine till oil flows out (5-10 seconds)with the ECU fuse pulled) I don't wnant to gunk the new sender if that was the issue. Thoughts on that? 2. I can put about 2 oz of oil/fluid into the cartridge cup (it hangs below the engine and only about 2 oz come out when its removed. I was thinking add 2 oz of MMO (or maybe suggest a better alternative or if I should leave it alone in there and crank the engine as above, (5-10 sec until oil flow out) Thoughts on that? All fails If I get oil light after I will do the engine cleaning as above letting the car sit to dissolve the sludge. Flush kero and change the oil Looking for ideas Again, thanks for all the helpful ideas and replies
 
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In the shop
Originally Posted by jssaab
Yeah I have had engines like that when I pick up an old one to restore. If t has not been run like that you are good. Ok, here's where I am at. 1. Not able to pull the sump and screen ( need to pull the engine to get at it ) 2 Pulled the filter (cartridge) looks mice dark amber color no residue, no metallic flakes after 300 miles 3. Used a magnet on the old oil after it settled, no metal, decanted it (liek a miner) no brass looking in there 4. Pulled the pressure sender. Now what (looking for opinions) 1. I Was thinking if gunk got into the passage where the sender resides I am flush it with MMO (just pours some in there, crank the engine till oil flows out (5-10 seconds)with the ECU fuse pulled) I don't wnant to gunk the new sender if that was the issue. Thoughts on that? 2. I can put about 2 oz of oil/fluid into the cartridge cup (it hangs below the engine and only about 2 oz come out when its removed. I was thinking add 2 oz of MMO (or maybe suggest a better alternative or if I should leave it alone in there and crank the engine as above, (5-10 sec until oil flow out) Thoughts on that? All fails If I get oil light after I will do the engine cleaning as above letting the car sit to dissolve the sludge. Flush kero and change the oil Looking for ideas Again, thanks for all the helpful ideas and replies
If you have some clearance oils from autozone like I do; use some of those along with some KREEN. If you were closer I'd send you both. Kreen is slowly cleaning some carbon, a not out of my 2AZ-FE engine. I use it in gas and oil. I'm using maxlife syn 5w30 "easy pour jug" but have tons of synpower stuff that used sodium as add I like your plan so far so keep on keeping on
 

jssaab

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62
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Old Saybrook, CT
thanks 'Stude here's my plan now So after thinking and talking with my mechanic I decided not do nothing and just put the car back together. His feeling is since there was no noise and these motors have the senders as a known problem I gave it a shot. Did not really want to pull it all apart again, I had to remove the turbo charge pipe, intake and move turbo charger intercoooler pipe It was a hassle to get out ( someone really cranked that old one on there) Had to use an extension on my ratchet. Super tight space but 1.5 hr job all good. Started the car,let it warm at idle, no light. (it was 65 degrees) Let it cool, went for a ride (50 degrees) wihtout letting it idle or warm until the engine was all warmed up no light seems all good The sump has 8 oz of MMO and 5.75 qts of Mobil 1 ESP. I will decide if I should add more ) puling out 2 oz at a time each time when I take a look at the filter, every 1000 miles changing the oil and filter after 3K total miles If all is good I will probably just keep using the M1 esp (0-w30) if all seems good. Thansk again for all the ideas and support, nice forum you've got here
 

jssaab

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Messages
62
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Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by ChrisD46
Have you considered using Sea Foam in the oil per instructions ?
Yes, lookiung for any detergent help at this point. I want to be gentle at first to not cause worse problems than I already have
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Bumped into the prior owner, she told me where they had gotten it serviced, so she thought. I also called all the places listed on CarFax Seems car never had an oil change in her hands after I called those places. At least 35 k miles but as much as 50 k miles ... I have a back up engine identified if I need it, Here's what i did after oil pressure light came on and I discovered the sludge 1. Change with Mobil 1 ESP and Mobil filter drove 250 miles, (still had light after starting for a bit until getting warm) 2. New oil and filter change. Still had light after starting for a bit until getting warm. (oil was black but not thick and no sludge pieces or gum evident in the oil of filter 3. Drove 100 miles, light came on as before (again when cold, gone after warming a bit more) 4. Added 2 oz MMO drove 50 miles. Still light came on when starting, Did not go out until very warmed up (10-15 minutes at full temp.) 5. Added more 2 oz MMO, drove 50 miles same as 3 above. 6. Added 2 more oz of MMO drove 250 miles. pulled the filter, looked good, dark amber color no sludge evident. Changed oil pressure sensor. Light did not come on again. YAY , so far. Thinking it got clogged with sludge and these are an issue on these cars regardless 7. Drove 50 miles. Added 10 more oz of MMO 16 oz so far. No pressure light. 8. Drove 250 more miles. No light, oil on dipstick is a little darker but still had nice consistency, no sludge to be seen. Next steps: 9. Will drive another 250 and pull the filter (500 miles with 16 oz of MMO) and if it still looks clean, will add the remaining 16 oz MMO (1 qt MMO : 5 M1 ESP) 10 If Car still seems fine no oil light, I will drive 750 more on the 1:5 MMO/oil mix (2000 total) pull the filter again. 11. If all looks good I will drive another 1000 k and change to all M1 ESP (after 3000 miles total with various concentrations of MMO (2000 miles on 1:5 mix) 12. I will check the filter after 1500 miles on the full oil change. Will send out a sample for UOA Hopefully I will not see continued metal or other deterioration in the analysis. If so, that's another thread.
 
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If it were me and money is no object, I'd get a few gallons of Valvoline Premium Blue Restore from a Cummins distributor or Ryder. It's $80/gallon but it has a POE based and designed to be a solvent with carbon and sludge. You run the oil for at least 5K, Cummins wants it in there for 10K but OTR big rigs see different duty cycles than passenger cars. Barring that, your plan of M1 ESP - which is Mercedes approved is a good first step, I would have gone with a 5W-40 HDEO for cleaning up and then using the M1 ESP for maintenance. Cross your fingers no serious harm to the timing chain setup or the rod/main bearings. That Saab engine is a smaller cousin of the 3.6L V6 GM used on the CTS and it's still used today in the Colorado. It can be a sludge monster - someone here posted about desluging his CTS.
 

jssaab

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Old Saybrook, CT
Originally Posted by nthach
If it were me and money is no object, I'd get a few gallons of Valvoline Premium Blue Restore from a Cummins distributor or Ryder. It's $80/gallon but it has a POE based and designed to be a solvent with carbon and sludge. You run the oil for at least 5K, Cummins wants it in there for 10K but OTR big rigs see different duty cycles than passenger cars.
Money is not an issue so I will look into it but it sounds a little aggressive for me at the moment. I want to make sure all the "big chunks" are gone before adding any oil (or flush) specifically designed to clear sludge.
Originally Posted by nthach
Barring that, your plan of M1 ESP - which is Mercedes approved is a good first step, I would have gone with a 5W-40 HDEO for cleaning up and then using the M1 ESP for maintenance.
I have read and in this thread, and the HDEO was suggested in other threads, as good step so I have been considering it. After my 3K "wash" with MMO i may do that as a 5k clean up then go back to the M1 ESP for a couple of changes then maybe do the Valvoline (once I look inot that a bit more) and if I still have an engine. Any suggestioins for a good HEDO and how long I shoud run it?
Originally Posted by nthach
Cross your fingers no serious harm to the timing chain setup or the rod/main bearings. That Saab engine is a smaller cousin of the 3.6L V6 GM used on the CTS and it's still used today in the Colorado. It can be a sludge monster - someone here posted about desluging his CTS.
Fingers and toes crossed
 
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Originally Posted by jssaab
I have read and in this thread, and the HDEO was suggested in other threads, as good step so I have been considering it. After my 3K "wash" with MMO i may do that as a 5k clean up then go back to the M1 ESP for a couple of changes then maybe do the Valvoline (once I look inot that a bit more) and if I still have an engine. Any suggestioins for a good HEDO and how long I shoud run it?
Rotella T6 5W-40 seems to be BITOG crowd favorite for synthetic HDEOs, I'm a fan of Chevron Delo 400 myself for when I have to use one. Mobil Delvac is good too. I'm not sure about what Saab specified for oil as far as viscosity/HTHS/NOACK and API/ACEA standards but the Chevy/Cadillac version of that V6 calls for a dexos1 approved oil. Once the cleanup is done, you could get away with a non-Euro spec oil that's D1G2 approved. Saab called for a GM-LL-A-025 approved oil to be used. GM has switched over to dexos specs - dexos1 is for North American/Korean/Chinese gasoline engines, dexos2 is for European gas/diesel engines as well as the preferred oil for the newer Corvette/Camaro if one is to take it to the track. Here's a GM bulletin: https://testing-public.carmd.com/Tsb/Download/96769/fe5ef56a It looks like you can get away with the M1 ESP after the cleanup is done - it meets D2 specs. You can go with either dexos spec in a xxW-30 grade.
 
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