Sludge reversal plan 1MZ (need oil advice)

[Andrew02]

I have been reading this forum the last few days and have been finding great info!

I have a 98 Avalon with 196k and have been fairly lazy on oil change intervals. I think the fact that it is such a great car that has never given me problems made me complacent. When I checked the oil cap recently I noticed visible sludge an inch or so down. (I am not sure how thick it is because I don’t know if it is resting on plastic or stacking up from much lower?). The car has made some oil burning smells in the past(has some slow leaks) but not so much lately. The oil on the dipstick looks clean (but I know that doesn’t mean anything now).
Based off what I have learned I am just about ready to take these steps. (I had been considering a service station engine flush until I found this site!! whew)

-Better bigger filter: Napa 1516
-Pint of MMO
-New PCV

Now I just need to select my oil!
I had been inclined to go with M1 5w30 but someone at NAPA mentioned that M1 would be too thin for a high mileage motor and the motor could develop leaks…
My question is should I go with Synthetic, High mileage synthetic or just some normal high mileage oil. or does it matter.
From now I’ll be doing my changes and pcv replacement much more often!

BTW I don’t treat all my cars this bad My sports cars always get M1 at 3k or less.

 

[Bill in Utah]

In TX I would use a good oil like 15w40 Shell/Chevron with the mmo and change often. Like 3000 miles. Open the filter and if its loaded then change the filter more often.

I would NOT go syn.

Bill

PS:

 

[Andrew02]

dgee's shot here looks like my fill hole (fortunately it sounds like there is a foamy black baffle so maybee there is some hope for my engine)

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/post-your-fill-hole.132498/

 

[Andrew02]

Thanks!

 

[rcy]

Sounds like you're seeing the baffle, as you already think based on the post you posted. How hard is it to remove the valve cover on that engine - then you can see the innards a bit better.

 

[Andrew02]

from what I have heard the rear valve cover (one where the pcv connects to) is pretty hard to get at. front may be easier but I don't know for sure.

If I did pull it and find sludge what kind of actions could I take (is it possible to safely scrape away the sludge, or should I just let the MMO do it gradually)

 

[addyguy]

Let MMO do it gradually.

Bill idea of a 15w40 HDEO, and MMO for a few 3k changes, is a good one.

 

[ericthepig]

Andrew,

I have a '98 Sienna with the 1MZ-FE. Yes, that's the baffle you see thru the fill hole. And it's completely normal for oil to splash onto the baffle and form carbon deposits - this happens on a lot of cars with baffles like that. I would NOT try to clean it, unless you can insure NONE of the deposits will fall into the engine. It's fine as is.

 

[hate2work]

If you're sure the engine is gunked up, I would use the Amsoil Engine Cleaner, then do what Bill suggested.

 

[Silber Igel]

Andrew,

I think you are looking at an oil baffle. Its black and textured. Common on Toyotas.

What grade of oil does your Toyo engine call for? Look on the oil fill cap. It will say something like 5w30 and SAE SL. Use the grade of oil shown on the cap! Simple enough. The point of it is that you don't need a 'thicker' oil... even in Texas. You want something that pumps and flows quickly and meets the viscosity at 212F (100C)... the oils hot operating temperature. As far as the SAE rating, you will only be able to get "SM" an improved oil performance requirement.

SM oils are sooo much better than anything available when your car was built so use them with confidence.

If you really believe the engine is sludged up, I'd be really careful about using high detergent oils or supplemental cleaners for fear of producing an 'embolism' in the oil system due to the release of a 'clot' of sludge that may clog the pump screen for oil galleries.

The better choice, IMHO, would be to use something like Penzoil's yellow bottle and change it after some 4-5K miles.

 

[c3po]

Originally Posted By: Bill In Utah
In TX I would use a good oil like 15w40 Shell/Chevron with the mmo and change often.


I never thought I would hear Bill saying it is ok to use MMO, just kidding Bill.

If the OP can remove one of his valve covers this would be a good thing to do, it also might be wise to check the PCV Valve.

I would suggest following Bill's advice on the oil, and it may be wise to run a few OCI's with MMO. I doubt the OP will see much in his oil filter since MMO liquifies any junk and it is held in suspension in the oil.

I would not go syn until everything is cleaned up, it could probably take between 2 to 3 OCI's with MMO to get everything cleaned up.

How many quarts of oil does this car hold.

 

[Silber Igel]

Andrew,

I'd fire the NAPA counterman based on his comment about M1 being too thin and causing leaks. Clearly, he's a product of the Texas school system ... where 40% of the kids don't graduate.

 

[5sfe91]

I don't think Bill's idea is that bad, HDEO(either 15w40 or 10w30) will do some cleaning and the MMO will help with the cleaning and thin the oil out a little bit, and opening the filter will give you an idea of whats getting cleaned out.

Welcome to BITOG!!!

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I'd fire the NAPA counterman based on his comment about M1 being too thin and causing leaks.


Yeah. If he'd said that about any other synthetic ..well, any normal person would let it slide and attribute it to ignorance


..but M1??!?! ..now tha-thar is a crime against nature. Heang-heeim!!

Sorry, I just find the exchanges entertaining

M1 is a fine product.


ON TOPIC:

First I'd determine if I have a problem. Then there are a number of ways to approach fixing it.

 

[ekpolk]

Andrew:

For your comfort, here's what the oil filler looks like on a four-month-old 1MZ (was an 03 model, pic taken back then).

As you can see, the foamy coating is there from day one. If this is what you're worrying about, don't. Still, look for other symptoms, as this engine earned the "sludgmaker" name rewarding those who weren't careful... BTW, I owned two of them, and had no issues.

 

[crazyoildude]

Be careful there are serious sludge issues with those Toyota v-6 engines we rebuild many of them both toyota and lexus we have a lexus 330 in the shop now for a rebuild

 

[ericthepig]

Crazyoildude,

What year is the Lexuss 330 and how many miles (if you know)?

Thanks!

btw - though the baffle has that coating, it can still have carbon deposits on it (mine does).

 

[rcy]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
Be careful there are serious sludge issues with those Toyota v-6 engines we rebuild many of them both toyota and lexus we have a lexus 330 in the shop now for a rebuild


I've heard that the 3.0 had problems inherent to the design. The 3.3 and current 3.5 had a design change to negate the sludge problem. Any sludger in the 3.3 and 3.5 might be due to neglect, rather than a design defect.

 

[ekpolk]

Whoa everyone, time for a reality check. Toyota had two engines, both originating in the mid-90s, that definitely had a serious ability to generate sludge if challenged with any substantial lack of maintenance. Those engines were the 5S-FE I-4 which was seen mostly in the 97-01 Camrys. I saw one of these in the shop once with its cover off -- looked like a funky chocolate birthday cake, except that wasn't fudge frosting on top...

The other engine was the 1MZ-FE 3.0L V-6, but not for the full run of production. The vulnerable engines were made from APPROXIMATELY 98-01. After 01, there were several changes introduced which substantially reduced the sludge risk in cases of less than perfect maintenance. Those included changes to the crankcase ventilation system, oil drain passages, and probably (I have not been able to veryify) changes to ECU programming. The 3.3L 3MZ-FE engine came somewhat later, and was not a sludge risk engine.

Now, keep in mind, ANY engine, even the very cleanest, can be made to sludge up if sufficiently neglected. Therefore, the RX-330 mentioned above may well be sludged, but if it is, it's a result of gross neglect, not the design.

 

[lexus114]

Originally Posted By: ericthepig
Crazyoildude,

What year is the Lexuss 330 and how many miles (if you know)?

Thanks!

btw - though the baffle has that coating, it can still have carbon deposits on it (mine does).



Yeah,what he said ?