Sludge removal project (with pics)

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: addyguy
Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Pretty much describes this engine to a tee. It gets 30 mpg, and performs well for what it is (a 1.8L sedan), but the engine is a mess and it has a thirst for oil.

I'll see where its at after the 2 planned 3K OCIs on high detergent syn & MMO. Then come a lot of ifs, depending on where its at in terms of sludge removed and oil consumption. If either, or both, are still an issue I may try Seafoam at that point. Another option, with or without the Seafoaming, is another series of OCIs but with some kind of diesel oil.

I'm giving it a year. If the oil consumption rate remains high, I can sell it and still break even. In the meantime I'll try just about anything (from gentle to harsher measures) to clean it out and decrease oil consumption.

-Spyder


Hate to say it, but it's a Toyota. Doesn't really matter what you do, it will run basically forever. Seeliing it due to high oil consumption would be foolish - a few extra quarts of oil won't break you.


Yeah I rethought that after I posted it and did the math on what the top up actually costs, versus the high mileage it gets and the reliability and low cost of maintenance repairs. Figured out that selling it would indeed be foolish. I`m closing in on 10,000 km of ownership, and I`ve only done the required maintenance since taking possession of it.

I`m not going to sell it. I`ll drive it until it falls apart

Re: the MMO - another forum member (StevieC) who lives on the border hooked me up with a bottle. None to be had locally so I lucked out there

 

[addyguy]

Yeah, I wish we could still get MMO - Canadian Tire used to have tons of it!

I never bought it, b/c I though it wasn't worth it - now I see all the good experiences folks are having with it, I want to try it!!!

Now we're stuck with Seafoam, at $12.99/pint - ugh!!!

 

[rslifkin]

I guess someone should take a trip down from Cananda, buy a few gallons of MMO, and take them back for all the Canadian BITOGers.

 

[Spyder7]

I like CT for tires (not the in-house brand though - they wear out too fast), tools (their sales are excellent and they carry a good selection), and Regane. Their oil prices, sadly, are terrible. I noticed today when I was in there buying Regane that Syntec was on a $29.99 everyday price - but not the 5W30. They charge almost an extra $5 for that. But WM next door had PP 5W30 on for $19 again so it all worked out.

I`ve pretty much given up completely on CT for oil. The best deal I`ve seen there was their Formula 1 syn for $20. But, again that day too PP was $19 next door.

-Spyder

 

[SLCraig]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
I like CT for tires (not the in-house brand though - they wear out too fast), tools (their sales are excellent and they carry a good selection), and Regane. Their oil prices, sadly, are terrible. I noticed today when I was in there buying Regane that Syntec was on a $29.99 everyday price - but not the 5W30. They charge almost an extra $5 for that. But WM next door had PP 5W30 on for $19 again so it all worked out.

I`ve pretty much given up completely on CT for oil. The best deal I`ve seen there was their Formula 1 syn for $20. But, again that day too PP was $19 next door.

-Spyder


Agree.
I did buy 2 jugs of F1 conventional though, for $9.99 each. Which is a pretty decent deal for 4.4L.

 

[1 SX]

Maybe try AutoR-X Seems to help with the 1.9 saturns.

 

[Spyder7]

Seafoam and ARX are both candidates downstream if consumption doesn't improve after a couple short PP & MMO OCIs. My MMO just arrived today: now I'm trying to decide when to put it in (I'm about 800 miles into this OCI). Suggestions have run from 1000 miles before my next OCI, to 500 miles before, to right now.

-Spyder

 

[Lethal1ty17]

i think the sooner you put it in, the better, you get more of a head start on the cleaning process. i put 16oz in my eclipse and ran it for a while. engine became whisper quiet and thats definately saying something for a 3.0Lv6 that sees a redline daily and has over 122k on the odo.

 

[demarpaint]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7
Suggestions have run from 1000 miles before my next OCI, to 500 miles before, to right now.

-Spyder


Here's a suggestion: How about a pint for the last half of the OCI? Then try a pint, or better yet a full qt for the entire winter OCI.

 

[Spyder7]

The MMO is in as of today. I dumped 12 ounces into the crankcase which topped it up and also 3 ounces into my 13 gallon tank when I filled up.

TC-W3 is out until I'm run out of MMO to put in the fuel tank, then its back in again.

The 12 ounces in the crankcase gives me about a 10% ratio, which I think is sufficient to help the PP along. The 3 ounces into the fuel tank will be done for 4 fillups, then its back to TC-W3 again. Some of reported success in freeing stuck rings and reducing, or curing, consumption by adding MMO to the gas tank. 12 ounces total over 4 fillups should be enough to gauge whether or not that has any hope of succeeding in my particular engine.

That leaves me with 8 ounces from my 32 ounce bottle. It'll either go into the sump for the final 1,000 - 1,500 km of the OCI, or into the cylinders (2 ounces per cylinder). Which way it goes depends on what happens with both of the issues I'm dealing with right now (sludge and oil burning).

I don't have the exact figure at hand, but I'm roughly 2,000 km into the OCI now. To stick to round metric numbers for this part, a 3k mile OCI is about 5,000 km and a 5k OCI is about 8,000 km. This OCI will be 5-8,000 km depending on how things go over the next few thousand km. If I'm still seeing improvement, I will push the OCI to 8,000 km or the end of November - whichever comes first.

I popped a P0300 (multiple cylinder misfire) on startup today, but I'm not concerned with it right now (its related to a persistent cold start rough idle when the fuel is rich, and I've had some progress there, even if not a complete cure, so for now I've reset the code and will wait it out a bit to see if it comes back; if it does I'll deal with the likely culprit and I'm only putting it off because its PITA to get to because of the head stripped bolts on whatever they were originally).

12 hour night shifts, my on-call schedule, and some non-car related PITA stress stuff in RL have had me slacking off a lot lately on things I don't have to deal with right now (I'm a natural procrastinator as it is, the [censored] I've been dealing with lately just has me on overload to the point where that tendency is coming out in full force). When that passes I'll deal with my CEL code and the other projects currently on pause.

-Spyder

 

[demarpaint]

It just dawned on me that you had to go through some great lengths to get that MMO? IIRC StevieC got it for you? You are rationing it wisely.

I'd really love to see you run the suggested amount in the sump during the cold Canadian winter, you'll be hooked on MMO after that. You'll clean the engine and benefit from better cold starts even with the synthetic oil. Many of my friends are now adding MMO and running it during winter months, then go back to their favorite oil for the spring and summer months. They feel they are killing two birds with one stone. Cleaning their engines and helping make cold starts easier.

At this point your plan is solid! Good luck and keep us updated.

 

[Spyder7]

PP 10W30 looks like its going to be my winter oil. Putting 10W30 oil in over the winter looks counter-intuitive, but its -39C pour point is actually lower than that of most 5W30s while it has excellent cSt@100C and NOACK. I could run it year round its that good and suited to this engine and climate.

The $19 sale of 5W30 disappeared (the oil that is) while the 10W30 is still plentiful (people aren't buying it because they know enough to know 10W30 is generally not the best choice here in the coming winter, but not enough to dig to see if that applies in this case like I have).

I did have to go to some extraordinary lengths to get the MMO. I'm considering another bottle a little further down the line but before the next OC. It would be a particularly good fit with the 10W30 PP. Its a stat holiday here today so WM is closed. I'm looking over my budget right now to see how much I can pick up tomorrow to stash. It'll be 2-4 5 quart jugs, at any rate. Price is half off, making it about a buck more (for 5 quarts) than PYB, which is now back to its regular price again.

Where I plan to only run PP in the winter (this OCI being an exception), and dino in the summer, I should be able to stash enough of it to run for a few winters. If the rollback lasts long enough, I may even wind up with enough to run year round. Its high burn off resistance makes it, at the current price, a reasonable choice year round even in an oil burner like mine.

-Spyder

 

[TugaSaudade]

"Its high burn off resistance makes it, at the current price, a reasonable choice year round even in an oil burner like mine"

Hi Spyder7

Just curious.. are you talking about NOACK?
What exactly could be considered "high burn off resistance"?

I'm trying to extrapolate that value to the oils available in my country, so i can find a good one for my oil burner too

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: TugaSaudade
"Its high burn off resistance makes it, at the current price, a reasonable choice year round even in an oil burner like mine"

Hi Spyder7

Just curious.. are you talking about NOACK?
What exactly could be considered "high burn off resistance"?

I'm trying to extrapolate that value to the oils available in my country, so i can find a good one for my oil burner too


A combination of scores:

464 degree Flashpoint;
3.1 High Temperature High Sheer;
9.9 NOACK

The NOACK score is very good, the HTHS is good, and the flash point is excellent. Taken as a group, this tells me that the base stocks and additive package combined are both of high quality and are very resistant to burn off. It should also maintain its 30 grade viscosity over any sensible OCI without sheering to a 20 weight oil (which would be a bad thing in a 10 year old 30 grade recommended engine that is already burning oil IMHO).

In looking at the total package, including the 5W30-10W30 recommended grades for my car, and allowing into account the sludge and oil consumption, I think this is about as good it gets (at least for a decent price) and something I would run year round if I can stash enough of it.

It will still burn off, for as long as this car continues to have that problem, but it will resist burn off better so I should see some improvement in oil consumption by using this in place of an oil whose total package (based on the scoring criteria I used above) isn't as good as this one's.

-Spyder

 

[cp3]

Hey Spyder! Noticed up top you mentioned the Hayes manual. Ever tried on of the online manuals? I have the Mitchell I think it is on PDF and I find it much better than the Hayes that I used to get. Might be worth a try.

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: cp3
Hey Spyder! Noticed up top you mentioned the Hayes manual. Ever tried on of the online manuals? I have the Mitchell I think it is on PDF and I find it much better than the Hayes that I used to get. Might be worth a try.


I just looked into it, and at $29.99/year its probably not a bad deal if its better than the Hayes (which is very basic and leaves a lot out - at least for this particular model). I only have the Hayes, but I'm looking into the 1 year subscription at Mitchell1 now.

-Spyder

 

[TugaSaudade]

Thanks for the info, Spyder7

BTW, why and how do you use tc-w3?

If i have researched correctly, its a 2 stroke outboard oil?!

Does it slowdown oil consumption?

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: TugaSaudade
Thanks for the info, Spyder7

BTW, why and how do you use tc-w3?

If i have researched correctly, its a 2 stroke outboard oil?!

Does it slowdown oil consumption?


It hasn't had any effect on consumption. I use it at the recommended 500:1 ratio and use 2 cycle outboard oil in my gas tank (except for now because the MMO is doing the same thing: lubricating the upper cylinder). I just measure 50 ml of it into an empty fuel injector cleaner bottle, and then dump it in at the gas station and pump 25 liters.

-Spyder