Longtime lurker. Often have my questions answered via the enormously informative BITOG archives. Finding myself still at a loss as to what to do in this new situation.
An '06 Toyota Highlander has come to us via family. 90K miles. It's been regularly serviced its whole life by either Yota dealers, or, for the last 3 changes, by Iffy-Lube outfits. Engine currently has a belly full of Pennzoil of correct weight and an Iffy Lube e-core filter. Appears via dipstick to be clean and full at 2500 mi, but I'd like to get it changed out pronto.
Filters I think I have squared away. My general habit is to run Wix, and oversized Wix where possible, and the 51515 should fit this application. There's an even bigger Wix, 51773, the Godzilla-sized original Land Cruiser filter, but it doesn't have a great micron rating per Wix.
This engine, the 3MZ-FE V6, is a few years on from the Toyota motors with strong sludging propensities. It should incorporate engineering refinements. I had hoped it would be clean inside. Opened the oil fill cap to find a black ugly mess. Holy cannoli! Is that the valvetrain? I rushed to research this. Apparently this engine has a baffle under the fill cap. Some commenters reference it having a black crackle finish. I went back and prodded it gently with a fingernail, and felt it start to crumble under light pressure. Looked at what came up under my fingernail. Checked to see if it would dissolve in a suitable solvent. And... this stuff is cooked, baked-on oil. Awesome.
At this point I have no idea how much muck might be elsewhere in the motor. I do wonder if I should just take the vehicle out of service at once to pull the pan and the top end covers, to inspect and clean directly. That's hard to do at the moment.
I've seen remarkable successes at cleaning out neglected engines before using certain synthetics, diesel HDEOs, or best of all, synth diesel HDEOs. We have a quite mild climate here -- practically never freezes, rarely over 90F. I have run dino Delo 15w-40 in modern Asian engines before and had really good outcomes other than a modest hit to fuel economy.
That said, this motor is a decade newer than anything I've previously treated to a diet of conventional HDEO.
And, given that it has a meticulously documented service record, I think I'd like to stick strictly to Toyota's spec for oil weight, in the event that the engine does suddenly cough a rod in the next few thousand miles. I've seen the Yota zone managers authorize overhauls out of warranty for customers with good service receipts and long buying histories. (Lots of cars bought from them by this family going back to the 1970s.)
The spec is 5w-30, which is what's in it now with conventional Pennz. Honestly what I think I'd like to try would be one of the new 5w-30 synthetic HDEOs in Delo or Rotella flavors, but it seems impossible to find either of those at local retail.
What I do have lots of: 15w-40 dino Delo HDEO, 5w-40 synth Delo (and Rotella) HDEO, and 5w-30 Havoline synth. I am perplexed that the 40w flavors may be too heavy for an engine with possibly extant internal residue narrowing the flow paths. Go with the 5w-30 synth instead, in Havoline or some other make? Pony up to order pricey 5w-30 synth HDEO over the Net? As Sherlock Holmes used to say, "Quite the three-pipe problem, Watson."
Sludge remediation regimen: Toyota 3MZ-FE V6
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If it has been on dino since new, I would be concerned about putting a syn in there and then getting external oil leaks. I would just do a bunch of OCIs with the cheapest dino/HDEO you can get, as I think 90% of people on this forum would recommend.
Something like this?
Delo 271210470 400 LE 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil - 1 Gallon https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00M1Y2B0K/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_BRvwAbG4XZ8VY
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
If it has been on dino since new, I would be concerned about putting a syn in there and then getting external oil leaks. I would just do a bunch of OCIs with the cheapest dino/HDEO you can get, as I think 90% of people on this forum would recommend.
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
If it has been on dino since new, I would be concerned about putting a syn in there and then getting external oil leaks. I would just do a bunch of OCIs with the cheapest dino/HDEO you can get, as I think 90% of people on this forum would recommend.
Originally Posted By: Insertcoolname
Originally Posted By: maxdustington
If it has been on dino since new, I would be concerned about putting a syn in there and then getting external oil leaks. I would just do a bunch of OCIs with the cheapest dino/HDEO you can get, as I think 90% of people on this forum would recommend.
The rest of the motor will be clean. It is only the filler neck that looks like garbage.
It likely isn't sludged up at all. My 2004 ES330 Lexus has the same junk in the oil baffle under the cap yet returns single digit wear numbers on UOAs, were talking 1-3 ppm for both Aluminum and Iron over 5-10k OCI on everything from top shelf Synthetic to a basic as it gets with SAE30. Check the UOA section for comparison of the same engine in a car. I think you'll be surprised.
I vote leave it alone and just run any SN oil for 5k and carry on.
Link to ES330 3MZ-FE UOA results
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That engine has a crusty looking black baffle under the fill cap. If you want to know how it really looks pull a valve cover (no need to pull both just the easiest one) then you will know if you are dealing with any sort of buildup or a clean engine.
I wouldn't go much more than 3-4K OCI on these bad boys though depending on their use.
I don’t thInk there is a need for HDEO oils in your case. Just do short OCIs (3k) with PYB or (5k) with full syn in 5w30. I would do a motor medic 5 min flush on the next oci. Wix is a good filter. Cut open the iffy lube filter after removal and see what’s in there. I have a feeling it won’t be as bad as you think
Originally Posted By: Trav
That engine has a crusty looking black baffle under the fill cap. If you want to know how it really looks pull a valve cover (no need to pull both just the easiest one) then you will know if you are dealing with any sort of buildup or a clean engine.
I wouldn't go much more than 3-4K OCI on these bad boys though depending on their use.
to bitog!
If you follow maintenance long term there wont be much sludge to clean maybe?
“given that it has a meticulously documented service record...”
Ive run QSUD 5k and it was gold and clear but i thought color doesnt tell you much
I also thought pennzoils gimmick was that their products clean out sludge
I could be wrong though..
Its quite possible this engine is very clean on the inside and as mentioned
Very easy on the conventional pennzoil
~7,000 mi. per year. Suburban chariot, perhaps. Maintained, you say. Drive it.
Do 3 detergent dinos and scope the bores.
At 100K do a leak down test. Then, if the stem seals are doing their thing, you're there!
May want to take a step back for a second
I've got your engine on the road, one that I've maintained since new
It's just a baffle that your seeing
If you want the full picture, pull a valve cover
I'd refresh the PCV valve, just for good measure, and run a good synthetic every 5k or so
This later iteration is much improved over the fairly maligned '95-'03 1MZ series
Originally Posted By: Charlie2015
The rest of the motor will be clean. It is only the filler neck that looks like garbage.
If you want to run a full syn with some mild cleaning ability, consider Mobil 1 High Mileage. Start out with 5W-30, and if consumption is not too high, should be good to go. If consumption is too high, try the 10W-30. I have routinely run those oils to 10k miles or more with a long life filter in high mileage vehicles with good results for more than a decade.
Years back a trucker pal told me they did engine flushes on their big diesels with Kerosene
added to the dirty oil and left to idle (no driving) for 30 minutes or so then do an oil and filter change!
I done it several times to my cars and lots came out, almost all the crud in the rocker covers came
off and drained out! I would add that you keep the drain plug out for 20 minutes and let it drip out.
I get common camping kerosene fuel, 1 -2 quart bottle, not "white gas". The bottled Engine Flush
at the auto store is 90% kerosene $5-6 for 30 cents of actual kerosene!
This routine will take out far more then any 'detergent' additive in the oil you use.
But don't do it 6 times a year, etc, kerosene is an 'astringent' and will dry out crankshaft seals if over
used. In my case, I've done it 2-3 times over 8-10 years I've owned each car.
Why not just use the 5w-30 Havoline synthetic you have in stock. I don't believe it will hurt the seals. Penrite claims to have a good flush if it really needs it. I've used Rislone for milder cases. You can run it with what you have in there until the next change.
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