Single weight synthetics?

[ProfPS]

If PAO, esters, and Grp III base stock oils provide better protection, mileage, longer OCI use, etc. than "dinos"- why are single weight oils still Grp's I and II?

With the higher flash point, and lower pour points that synthetics provide, a single weight synthetic would out perform multi-weight oils across the temperature range from pour point to flash point.

There was a post within the past couple days where someone stated that 40-50 years ago he used 20 wt year-round without a problem and that was all that was available at the time. With a synthetic straight 20, who would need an xW-20 oil?

What do you think?

 

[XPR]

There are a few single weight synthetics.

 

[ProfPS]

The only ones that I have found through an Internet search are an Amsoil product (10w-30/SAE30) and references to a synthetic 30W for boating [no specific brand listed]. The Amsoil product doesn't look like a straight 30W but a 10w30 that can be used for a 30W use. A straight weight does not seem to be available for automotive gasoline or diesel engines.

 

[Gilitar]

Royal Purple makes single weight synthetic oils. They can be found at Napa.

 

[goodvibes]

Semantics. Synths have a wider natural visc spread so listing them as single weights is more marketing than anything else. The Amsoil stated earlier is a good example. Dual listing. No VIs but still a 10w30. grp III single weights may have a smaller spread.

 

[XS650]

If SAE J300 (Mar93)says any Newtonian oil may be labeled as a single grade oil. I doubt that has changed, anyone??

So, a synthetic with no VIs in it could be labeled a 30 weight even though it could also meet 5w30 if it did it without viscosity improvers.

It could not be labeled a 10w30 if it meet 5w30, only as a straight 30 or a 5w30.

 

[ProfPS]

RP makes 30w, 40w, and 50w oils. Nothing in the lower weights. Amsoil makes a 20w natural gas oil and a 10w transmission oil. Looking at the tech datas and comparing them to a typical 5w-20 or 5w30 weight oil, the single weights cover the extremes well but cST's are either too thick or too thin. It would appear that a 15w would be right in the same cST ranges and the multi's.

Is there a 15w synthetic on the market?

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

If SAE J300 (Mar93)says any Newtonian oil may be labeled as a single grade oil. I doubt that has changed, anyone??

---

That requirement is not in the current J300 specs.

 

[XS650]

Gman, what does it say?. Your comment implies that an oil can be called a single weight oil even if it is non-Newtonian.

 

[G-MAN]

Quote:

---

There was a post within the past couple days where someone stated that 40-50 years ago he used 20 wt year-round without a problem and that was all that was available at the time. With a synthetic straight 20, who would need an xW-20 oil?

What do you think?

---

A fully formulated SAE 20 made with PAO and esters with a VI in the 140-160 range would meet the specs for a 5w20.

 

[TallPaul]

Quote:

---

Is there a 15w synthetic on the market?

---

I doubt it, but you would be close enough to that by using 5w20 Redline, which is a straight grade in regard to no VII added.

 

[TallPaul]

Quote:

---

It could not be labeled a 10w30 if it meet 5w30, only as a straight 30 or a 5w30.

---

I don't see why a 5w30 couldn't be labeled as a 10w30. It would meet all the specs for both grades.

 

[bruce381]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

It could not be labeled a 10w30 if it meet 5w30, only as a straight 30 or a 5w30.

---

I don't see why a 5w30 couldn't be labeled as a 10w30. It would meet all the specs for both grades.

---

You are correct some syns or even conventional oils will meet a "lower" multi grade number like a 20w30 but it is not a marketable deal or you could have a 5w30 and label as a 10w30 up to the blender/marketer.

example my 10w30 will qualify borderline as a 5w30 so to "be safe" I call it a 10w30.
bruce

 

[XS650]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

It could not be labeled a 10w30 if it meet 5w30, only as a straight 30 or a 5w30.

---

I don't see why a 5w30 couldn't be labeled as a 10w30. It would meet all the specs for both grades.

---

When my copy of J300 was published that was specifically forbidden. I hope G-Man is up to sharing a bunch of current J300 text with us.

I think the original reason was that people in the know wanted to avoid oils with a lot of VI back in the early 1990s. If you read the 1993 copy of SAE J300 they all but take a leak on 10W-40. It's called a light duty oil or some such. It only had to meet the same HTHS as a 30 weight while 15w40 had to meet HTHS requirement for a straight 50 weight. I started using 15w40 in motorcycles about 1986 based on what I learned about it in Detroit Diesel 2-stroke diesel applications. It was the toughest multi-vis around, by far.

At the time the Army TACOM lab insisted on qualifying new engines designs on Valvoline 15w40 because it was the crappiest oil that met the current version of MIL-L-2104.

 

[Jeffrey Behr]

Quote:

---

...Synths have a wider natural visc spread...

---

I think you meant a higher natural resistance to viscosity spread.

 

[Titan]

Quote:

---

Quote:

---

...Synths have a wider natural visc spread...

---

I think you meant a higher natural resistance to viscosity spread.

---

I think he meant that they inherently have a wider range of viscosity values, at different temperature ranges, without using Viscosity Index Improvers and/or Pour Point Depressants.

 

[XPR]

Quote:

---

The only ones that I have found through an Internet search are an Amsoil product (10w-30/SAE30) and references to a synthetic 30W for boating [no specific brand listed]. The Amsoil product doesn't look like a straight 30W but a 10w30 that can be used for a 30W use. A straight weight does not seem to be available for automotive gasoline or diesel engines.

---

The Amsoil oil you talk about is a 30 weight oil that also has the properties of a 10w30. It has no added VII's. Amsoil also makes a 60 weight oil.

 

[G-MAN]

RLI makes SAE 30 and SAE 40 bio-based synthetics.