My Acura is 100% Japanese, my Audi 100% German. Maybe the #@$%!-ization of certian makes for a QC problem.
Sick of American-car bashing....
- Thread starter AstroVic
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Hmmm, and this same arguement could not be made for why sooo many think the ubiquitous Camrys & Avalons appear to be so "perfect"??!?
DD,
Now we get into a demographic question of car ownership.
Do owners of certain brand have more of a tendency to drive conservatively and perform regular maintenance over drivers of otehr brands? Or, since more drivers are changing brands, are those bad habits resulting in more new failures?
It makes for an interesting line of reasoning.
Now we get into a demographic question of car ownership.
Do owners of certain brand have more of a tendency to drive conservatively and perform regular maintenance over drivers of otehr brands? Or, since more drivers are changing brands, are those bad habits resulting in more new failures?
It makes for an interesting line of reasoning.
JHZR2
Staff member
From my experiences, yes, absolutely. The average honda driver or toyota driver drives carefully, takes their car to the dealer and approves service without batting an eyelid. When the cars get into the hands of young kids or illegals, they ugly out and blow oil smoke real soon...
A domestic driver thinks theyre being ripped off for any PM reccomended. They stomp on the go pedal, and think their vehicles only are good for 3-5 years anyway, so they dont care to care for them.
Seriously.
JMH
In all honestesy, Everything is made to work well with Proper matenance. I don't bash Domestic cars, I currently have a 2004 Pontiac Grand Prix. Even without the matence(Sp?) records, the car only have 3 things that it needed to be done to it. 1. A New Battery 2. A coolent flush and 3 a Transmittion Flush. Other than that and the Gas it consumes, it's a cheap car to operate. I don't the "eat the brake pads every 10k miles" problem and the suspension is cheaper to repair. Everything has it's good and bad. Personally, my mothers 1997 Hyundai Elantra is still impessing me on how easy to fix problems it has. Like there was a piece that had come loose and cause the brake light to stay on, even with the brakes off and power off. The fix for it only took 30 seconds.
Like I've told others on here; let those Camry/Accord owners POUND on their "perfect" cars like I do on mine (actually, they can't since they never have and never will have enough performance to equal the abuse). Then come see me and tell me how "perfect" they are at 300K + miles.
Usually if a problem occurs its more frequent than most think.
If someone has "never heard of it" talk to an honest tech. Especially a tech that specializes in that particular make. They'll give you the lowdown.
Anyone that assumes if "no ones heard of it (problem), therefore it doesn't exist" is just naive.
I'm finding alot of comments on this thread are made by "end users" not a mechanic that works in an independant or dealership repair shop. This being the case this shows clearly that the public doesn't know as much as they think.
People may say "statistically" yada yada yada. If people knew what went into cars these days they would be selecting thing more wisely rather than "oh it drives so nice and it has power"
Of coarse there is a level of tolerance. I know alot of customers willing to give me thousands of dollars over the years because they are diehards. Then there are customers that sell their problematic cars and buy a different make and are happy as heck. Typically they to from domestic to import (toyota,honda and some mazda's). Nissans have issues with timing chain tensioners and alot of other issues not really ever seen in toyota's and hondas.
Ask me if I would ever buy a Ford freestar or dodge caravan. I'd rather buy a used 2002 honda oddysey with KNOWN transmission issues. Why you ask?? because TSB's can fix tranny issues with updated parts. Tranny problems will be once and be over with.
People who own domestics....ask your mechanic what kind of waterpump and master cylinder or even wheel cylinders they'll be using when its time for replacing. I'll tell you now 1)china 2)china 3)china. I cant help using them and I'll tell you alot of guys (who own/run shops) are eating labour because they fail within a year.
No car is perfect. I'll tell you this right now. However if you honestly look at every cent you spend on maintenance you'll see a dramatic difference from a chev to a toyota.
Anyone disagreeing my facts is either a used cars salesman or just simply stupid.
NOT BASHING. Just stating facts. If people choose to drive domestics is fine with me. I need to change squeeking balljoints, waterpumps (before 100,000km), heatercores, Howling powers steering pumps (fords, chryslers), exploding soft rad hoses (more so compared to majority of all imports), failing fuel pumps (especially chevs), leaking diff seals, bouncing belt tensioners, harmonic balancers falling apart, howling wheel bearings (yes toyotas do this too in the corolla's in the mid 90s not just domestics), dying winshield wiper motors, power window motors, failing window switches, failing ABS sensors, dying alternators (especially chevs), and statistically more tranny issues and the list goes on and on. I gotta pay my mortgage.
Just think honestly I CANNOT buy replacement parts unless they come from offshore sold by "NORTH AMERICAN" owned companies. Fact no fiction. After a couple of years of maintenance a domestic car's components are all gonna be china, Mexico and brazilian. This again fact not fiction.
Must clarify NOT BASHING. Talk to your local mechanic. Hope this is a rude awakening.
If someone has "never heard of it" talk to an honest tech. Especially a tech that specializes in that particular make. They'll give you the lowdown.
Anyone that assumes if "no ones heard of it (problem), therefore it doesn't exist" is just naive.
I'm finding alot of comments on this thread are made by "end users" not a mechanic that works in an independant or dealership repair shop. This being the case this shows clearly that the public doesn't know as much as they think.
People may say "statistically" yada yada yada. If people knew what went into cars these days they would be selecting thing more wisely rather than "oh it drives so nice and it has power"
Of coarse there is a level of tolerance. I know alot of customers willing to give me thousands of dollars over the years because they are diehards. Then there are customers that sell their problematic cars and buy a different make and are happy as heck. Typically they to from domestic to import (toyota,honda and some mazda's). Nissans have issues with timing chain tensioners and alot of other issues not really ever seen in toyota's and hondas.
Ask me if I would ever buy a Ford freestar or dodge caravan. I'd rather buy a used 2002 honda oddysey with KNOWN transmission issues. Why you ask?? because TSB's can fix tranny issues with updated parts. Tranny problems will be once and be over with.
People who own domestics....ask your mechanic what kind of waterpump and master cylinder or even wheel cylinders they'll be using when its time for replacing. I'll tell you now 1)china 2)china 3)china. I cant help using them and I'll tell you alot of guys (who own/run shops) are eating labour because they fail within a year.
No car is perfect. I'll tell you this right now. However if you honestly look at every cent you spend on maintenance you'll see a dramatic difference from a chev to a toyota.
Anyone disagreeing my facts is either a used cars salesman or just simply stupid.
NOT BASHING. Just stating facts. If people choose to drive domestics is fine with me. I need to change squeeking balljoints, waterpumps (before 100,000km), heatercores, Howling powers steering pumps (fords, chryslers), exploding soft rad hoses (more so compared to majority of all imports), failing fuel pumps (especially chevs), leaking diff seals, bouncing belt tensioners, harmonic balancers falling apart, howling wheel bearings (yes toyotas do this too in the corolla's in the mid 90s not just domestics), dying winshield wiper motors, power window motors, failing window switches, failing ABS sensors, dying alternators (especially chevs), and statistically more tranny issues and the list goes on and on. I gotta pay my mortgage.
Just think honestly I CANNOT buy replacement parts unless they come from offshore sold by "NORTH AMERICAN" owned companies. Fact no fiction. After a couple of years of maintenance a domestic car's components are all gonna be china, Mexico and brazilian. This again fact not fiction.
Must clarify NOT BASHING. Talk to your local mechanic. Hope this is a rude awakening.
I don't pound on my primary means of transportation(I may use a truck as a truck but that is not abuse, that's normal use). A second vehicle or an offroader or a track car, sure that's what they are for, Fun.
But most folks need a car that won't have any surprises, life is chaotic and busy enough without preventable stress. To assure this responsible people perform or have performed for them preventative maintenace and drive at reasonable levels of performance to assure that their vehicle will be around for a while.
If you are proud of pounding on your primary piece of transportation then I am happy for you. In my experience the harder you push a vehicle the sooner it is going to need repair through mechanical needs or through accident repair. If you haven't experienced either then I doubt you are pushing as hard as you claim.
I have another question. How hard can you pound on a car on the street legaly? It seems to me even the cheapest lowest performing cars sold today can go extra legal with little effort. Please tell me how you are utilizing this "performance" legally and daily? Do you live on a racetrack?
Where I live I have to be extremely carefull about my driving speeds because we have a lot of law enforcement and little real crime so traffic enforcement is on the highly agressive side. So is pounding accelerating hard? Are you jumping speed bumps? I simply don't understand what you mean by pounding your vehicle daily but it doesn't sound nice or considerate to your neighbors on the road.
But most folks need a car that won't have any surprises, life is chaotic and busy enough without preventable stress. To assure this responsible people perform or have performed for them preventative maintenace and drive at reasonable levels of performance to assure that their vehicle will be around for a while.
If you are proud of pounding on your primary piece of transportation then I am happy for you. In my experience the harder you push a vehicle the sooner it is going to need repair through mechanical needs or through accident repair. If you haven't experienced either then I doubt you are pushing as hard as you claim.
I have another question. How hard can you pound on a car on the street legaly? It seems to me even the cheapest lowest performing cars sold today can go extra legal with little effort. Please tell me how you are utilizing this "performance" legally and daily? Do you live on a racetrack?
Where I live I have to be extremely carefull about my driving speeds because we have a lot of law enforcement and little real crime so traffic enforcement is on the highly agressive side. So is pounding accelerating hard? Are you jumping speed bumps? I simply don't understand what you mean by pounding your vehicle daily but it doesn't sound nice or considerate to your neighbors on the road.
"Do owners of certain brand have more of a tendency to drive conservatively and perform regular maintenance over drivers of otehr brands? Or, since more drivers are changing brands, are those bad habits resulting in more new failures?
It makes for an interesting line of reasoning."
As noted in other threads, for years vacation for us meant 5 to 6 in Taurus, trunk full, car carrier on top, and thinking back my wife and I don't recall seeing Accords or Camrys being used like that at the camp grounds.
It makes for an interesting line of reasoning."
As noted in other threads, for years vacation for us meant 5 to 6 in Taurus, trunk full, car carrier on top, and thinking back my wife and I don't recall seeing Accords or Camrys being used like that at the camp grounds.
Too bad there are no more American cars. Both my Chevies were made in Canada. I still have an American Dodge Caravan but I understand that Chrysler is closing the St. Louis plant or at least cutting it back. That will probably be gone soon, since they will probably sell out to GM who will move the rest of it to Canada. My neighbors think they are driving American cars becasue they were made in Kentucky.
WOW. Are you sure you're not "mokie" with a new username??
Yes, you are right I guess I would not know that any major replacement components are made offshore since I've NEVER had to replace any on my "horrid, P.O.S." Chevy.
IF I ever did have to, I would NOT go to someone like yourself or "mokie", I would do the work myself. IF it was beyond my scope of ability (rod through block, etc.) I would take it to a specialty tuner to rebuild, someone who knows about and appreciates the performance of the marque/powerplant, NOT an umbrella statement basher. I have just as much "right" to have performance as one of my criteria/requirements/preferences, as your customers do to drive their "refrigerators on wheels".
I use to go to a deal that sold Volvo's and Chevrolet's.
The salesman would start talking to customers who had cars in for routine service. You tell them you had a Volvo with 125-150K miles they would say "Oh it is just getting broken in. They would question a Chevrolet customer to the mileage on the car. If that customer said they had over 60K or 70K miles on the car the salesman would insinuate that they should think about getting rid of it before it started costing them money. I saw this happen time and time again at that dealership. Also the Volvo's were serviced on one side the Chevrolet's on the other. The Techs on the Volvo side were always busy and the Chevrolet Techs did a lot of standing around. Difference was the Volvo owners were more understanding of the need for maintenance. The other side of coin was the only time the Chevrolet techs saw work was warranty and when the local garage couldn't fix the car.
The salesman would start talking to customers who had cars in for routine service. You tell them you had a Volvo with 125-150K miles they would say "Oh it is just getting broken in. They would question a Chevrolet customer to the mileage on the car. If that customer said they had over 60K or 70K miles on the car the salesman would insinuate that they should think about getting rid of it before it started costing them money. I saw this happen time and time again at that dealership. Also the Volvo's were serviced on one side the Chevrolet's on the other. The Techs on the Volvo side were always busy and the Chevrolet Techs did a lot of standing around. Difference was the Volvo owners were more understanding of the need for maintenance. The other side of coin was the only time the Chevrolet techs saw work was warranty and when the local garage couldn't fix the car.
No, I am NOT like your import fanboyz who cut/dice/weave in and out of heavy traffic in order to get a "win" on public roads. This IS quite stupid, dangerous, and inconsiderate.
But I ask this, how many of your Camry/Accord drivers hot lap their cars at a quarter mile track 2-4 times a month? How many do HPDE/open track events/high speed autocrosses multiple times a year? How many (within the bounds of speed limits/traffic laws) take their engines up to/close to redline multiple times per day?
Yes, I DO maintain the "daylights" out of it, but this is what I refer to as "pounding" on my car, just so you know.
Somehow, and yes I'm just as perplexed as you are (and all of the rest of the bashers are), my "P.O.S." domestic takes the abuse and begs for more. Believe it or not. I know it's beyond the scope of an import ONLY lover, but I also don't care if you do or not. Just DO NOT tell ME what I KNOW I've experienced.
OK, looks like this one has entered it's all-too-predictable death spiral. Yes, we're sick of bashing cars (and other members), and as soon as we get to that point, out comes the needle. . .
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