SHould i use new copper banjo bolt washer,old,?

[ziggy]

Imgunna be doing my calipers (new) and rotors, next few days. It seems, usng the new copper washers that come with a new brke hose kit, are frowned on. however it seems recommended too use new washers... Can i get them at my local napa? or autozone? i cant find them on napas website. its for a 1998 toyota corolla. or should i jsut use the old ones, onthe new caliper? LIketo get new onesifi could..with the grooovs in em. some have said, ive read, too try your local auto dealer first. somesay steel washers, some say copper/coper being frowned on.

 

[ls1mike]

I have always had new ones leak. Your luck might be better!

 

[Trav]

Steel doesn't seal well, aluminum is good and copper is best. tighten them them loosen them and retighten to spec. You should have any problem with leaks. You can reuse the old ones in a pinch just check them for weepage a when its done and a couple of day later. If you do have one that weeps just tighten it very lightly and move the fitting a few times back and forth then tighten to spec.

 

[oilboy123]

I always use new copper and torque to specs. I have taken old ones in a pinch and sanded the little rings till they are smoothed out and installed. I read online that somebody annealed them by heating to red. Then dropping into cold water to make them soft again. I have not tried that, but I will remember it if I'm in a jam.

 

[Oro_O]

You can get them at Ace hardware (copper washers). If you have a harbor freight, they have 80 count assortment boxes for like $5; I have those in the garage. http://www.harborfreight.com/80-piece-copper-washer-assortment-67526.html They can be re-used by re-annealing as oilboy123 described.

 

[ziggy]

i see! i dont think i want too go trough all that,too re use.ide rather use new ones.. so, coperones from napa? is interesting..on the nens forum,yearsago, they seemed too not likethe copper washers neons.org/ coming from neon enthusiasts and mechanics... hmmmm toospec. thats gunna be the tricky part.i do have atorque wrench, but never used it.its like 10-150 ft.lbs. got itat homedepot... icant just use a 3/4 drive ratchet?

 

[ziggy]

i have no idea, what the spec is for banjo bolt washers, on a 98 corolla, or could not find anything online..imma search more again.

 

[Merkava_4]

Been there - done that. You can only tighten those copper banjo washers one time, or you're guarantied to get a leak.

 

[ziggy]

thats what i read! crush washers...for a reason..one timeuse. how much should itighten the banjobolt too crush the washers? till the bolt wont turn anymore? then snug it abit?

 

[turtlevette]

Using 2 washers gives more crush with less torque. Seems like you really have to crank down hard to get one washer to seal and I'm always afraid I'm going to strip it out.

 

[ziggy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AMH0qabtNFo i found this just a few minutes long..looks faily easy, understandable. just tighten it,not snug tighten it

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: ziggy

thats what i read! crush washers...for a reason..one timeuse. how much should itighten the banjobolt too crush the washers? till the bolt wont turn anymore? then snug it abit?

They're one time use because when you tighten that banjo bolt, the big steel block on the end of that caliper hose puts an impression into the banjo washer. That impression is fine as long as the washer doesn't move. But if you move that banjo washer, brake fluid will follow the path of that previous impression and out she goes. Tighten with a long pattern wrench as tight as you can.

 

[ziggy]

AHA!!!! now itmaks sense!!merkva thank you!!! so..as long as i use the coperwashers, new, letssay napas brand, just tighten the banjo bolt, without snuging it, but do NOT move thewasher at all, when tightening.. Eureka!

 

[Stewie]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4

Originally Posted By: ziggy

thats what i read! crush washers...for a reason..one timeuse. how much should itighten the banjobolt too crush the washers? till the bolt wont turn anymore? then snug it abit?

They're one time use because when you tighten that banjo bolt, the big steel block on the end of that caliper hose puts an impression into the banjo washer. That impression is fine as long as the washer doesn't move. But if you move that banjo washer, brake fluid will follow the path of that previous impression and out she goes. Tighten with a long pattern wrench as tight as you can.

I know alot of ppl that used them multiple times, are they just lucky? Some never changed it!!!

 

[Rick in PA]

Metals "work harden". An example is if you bend metal, you can never unbend it. The bend creases the metal because the metal is harder at the bend than along the unbent portion of the sheet. The crush washers are supplied in the soft state. Once used, they harden a bit. That's one of the reasons a used crush washer may not seal. Best practice is to use a new one.

 

[Trav]

I have reused a lot of them in a pinch over the last 40 years without issue. Is it the "right" or textbook way? No but sometimes there is no alternative to working with what you have.

 

[eljefino]

The banjo bolts usually have coarse thread meaning you can crank on 'em without them stripping. I've flipped the copper washers over. They get an impression and look like a vinyl record "on one side" and the other side "sometimes" remains virgin and can be used. I suspect this is your only car and you want to have all parts on hand, but I also suspect you'll have all you need. Open your new caliper box in the parts store and inspect for copper washers. Even if not advertised, I bet you'll have one inside. Torque spec... it's a feel... if you've ever done a spark plug with a crush washer it's about the same. Go, go, go, feel the elastic part of the metal, then it firms right up. Stop there. Probably needs a little more torque than you'd think.

 

[Merkava_4]

Originally Posted By: Stewie

I know alot of ppl that used them multiple times, are they just lucky? Some never changed it!!!

I learned that lesson the hard way. I had a '78 Cadillac that I couldn't get the air out of the system. After multiple brake bleed attempts, I finally through in the towel and took the car to the pros. They got the car up on the rack and sure enough, there was brake fluid running down the inside of one tire. They followed the path and that path led to the brake hose where it meets the caliper. Guy says - "Did you reuse the banjo washers?" "Yeah why? Was I not supposed to?" He took one of the banjo washers and showed me what looked like a very fine scratch going across the washer. He says that's how the fluid got out.

 

[SHOZ]

I get mine at NAPA. I believe they are for GMs but use them on my Fords and Huyndais. That being said if you heat the old ones up with a torch they will soften back up.

 

[ziggy]

hello elfino:) know your a long time bob member, cool:) you have mefigured out!:) i did my pads at least yesterday, went driving flawless.caliers ive taken off, incudng the bracket, on 98 corollla, anda95 neon. have i ever bled,even with a neman brake bleeder bottle? no..butdo have 2 of them, bought at advance auto and autozone years ago. with thetubbing. hvaedone spark plugs, since 2000. but with those a chiltonbok, haynes book(which im not fond of, sometimes thiers typos,caused me too break a thermostat housing bolt on the neon once,printing torque specs of footlbs, not inch lbs*) with a fan type torque ratchet. Doing copper sealents on a banjo bolt never. but i do have the knack for those momentsof time,you know when too stop torquing. this is a bit tricker, because its a saftey issue. bt mostlyfeel confident i can do it. jut dont wanna mesup, 15 minutes in driving, braks fail, and n ones in frontoeme,wthout a car no less, or kid/child.