My 2003 Echo currently has 11000 miles on the odo. Should I have the dealer to do a complete AT flush before I install a Frantz bypass filter for the AT? Or the bypass filter will clean up whatever in the system without the need of a complete flush? Once the AT bypass filter is installed, do I still need to flush the AT or change the entire AT fluid in the future? Or I just simply replace TP every 5000 miles without the need to replace AT fluid?
Should I flush the transmission prior installing a bypass filter?
- Thread starter sifan
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With only 11,000 mile I would save my money and not bother with a flush. Your fluid is going to be pretty clean. The bypass will clean out whatever little amount of stuff that may be in your fluid. Save your money and flush it after you have put some more miles on it.
In addition, since you're installing a bypass filter, your tranny fluid will stay clean and last a very long time. Is there a recommended tranny fluid change interval from Toyota?
I have a Frantz on my engine oil on my truck and was at the tranny shop yesterday picking it up after my new converter went south. I asked the 2 builders there what they thought of adding a filter ( Frantz or equivalent) to the tranny. Both said don't waste your money on a filter, but to be more concerned on adding a good cooler. Heat kills trannys, not dirty fluid, was both of their opinions. Both agreed that if you get enough stuff floating around in the tranny to need a second filter, you have a severe tranny problem and need it taken down and fixed. Heat is the number 1 killer.
Any thoughts?
Mark
Any thoughts?
Mark
I believe it is recommended to replacce AT fluid every 3 years or 36K miles. Without the use of bypass filter I can understand the need to replace AT fluid. But, do AT fluid wear out by heat like coolant in the radiator? I thought the use of a bypass filter would make the AT become maintenance free; so, I can save the money on AT flush by dealers in the long run.
Here's my suggestion, it is a bit long.
Your Echo is something that I understand from your descriptions, car that you want to last... especially the transmission. That is why you would consider the fluid filter right?
Well the inside has a filter mesh screen (debris) and magnets to hold ferrous(iron/steel alloys). I personally change the ATF and screen filter, and clean off the magnets on the second oil change, (First Oil change at 1000 km, next is 6000kms, conventional). This way all the debris from burninshing the moving parts are removed.
The bypass filter can filter out the finer particles and non magnetic bits like worn friction material in the clutch bands etc. but the transmission is not built with such close tolerances that these would affect its life dramatically.
You will have clean fluid.
The statement from those that said 'add a cooler' is preserving the transmission in another aspect. Keeping the fluid 'good' so to speak. The fluid's chemical composition can be better maintained for longer life if the temperature is kept lower. The Additives that maintain the fluid will do it's part in keeping the transmission working. Clean fluid with worn out (burnt) additives is also not good.
Summary: Transmission needs AT fluid to preform the 'lubrication' 'flushing/ cleaning' 'sealing' 'cooling' functions.
Bypass filter help with flushing and cleaning.
Cooler compliments the system and adds to fluid life.
Both are advantageous, but remember fluid pumping can decrease fule economy because you need the engine power to move the fluids.
The costs of a bypass filter may not out weigh the 3 year/ 60,000km change if it is around $80 CDN each time.
The cooler would be worth it though depending on oyur conditions.
[ May 14, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Hajoca ]
Your Echo is something that I understand from your descriptions, car that you want to last... especially the transmission. That is why you would consider the fluid filter right?
Well the inside has a filter mesh screen (debris) and magnets to hold ferrous(iron/steel alloys). I personally change the ATF and screen filter, and clean off the magnets on the second oil change, (First Oil change at 1000 km, next is 6000kms, conventional). This way all the debris from burninshing the moving parts are removed.
The bypass filter can filter out the finer particles and non magnetic bits like worn friction material in the clutch bands etc. but the transmission is not built with such close tolerances that these would affect its life dramatically.
You will have clean fluid.
The statement from those that said 'add a cooler' is preserving the transmission in another aspect. Keeping the fluid 'good' so to speak. The fluid's chemical composition can be better maintained for longer life if the temperature is kept lower. The Additives that maintain the fluid will do it's part in keeping the transmission working. Clean fluid with worn out (burnt) additives is also not good.
Summary: Transmission needs AT fluid to preform the 'lubrication' 'flushing/ cleaning' 'sealing' 'cooling' functions.
Bypass filter help with flushing and cleaning.
Cooler compliments the system and adds to fluid life.
Both are advantageous, but remember fluid pumping can decrease fule economy because you need the engine power to move the fluids.
The costs of a bypass filter may not out weigh the 3 year/ 60,000km change if it is around $80 CDN each time.
The cooler would be worth it though depending on oyur conditions.
[ May 14, 2004, 10:10 AM: Message edited by: Hajoca ]
The factory AT cooler is intergrated into the radiator. Do I need another AT cooler since I do 70 miles round trip to work in MD/VA area? Will the use of a bypass filter like Frantz decrease the fuel economy of my car?
I just installed the Frantz bypass to my Nissan Altima on thursday...Amazingly enought the car seems to shift smother..especially from 3-4 and down from 4-3 ..I had read where Mykro said the same ( I thought he was full of it ...but I have been proven wrong )
remember when you add the filter you tranny capacity will increase by 1 or more quarts.
I do agree that heat is you enamy when it comes to tranny life ..adding an after market cooler from http://store.summitracing.com/ I found one for under $50..with tubing you may be looking at $60 ..not5 a bad investment.
And no I have not done this as I live in the Seattle area and ( not many long steep hills to climb daily) so my tranny fluid does not tend to get hot.
BTW I am so impressed with this that I am going to add one to my Honda Accord ( I have a spare Gulf Coast filter ..infact the fFrantz was one I bought a year ago on ebay ..$40
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I still use the moter guard on the engine ...and after seeing all three units ..the Motor gaurd the Ralph wood seels is the best for filter change out and lack of leaks.
I do agree that heat is you enamy when it comes to tranny life ..adding an after market cooler from http://store.summitracing.com/ I found one for under $50..with tubing you may be looking at $60 ..not5 a bad investment.
And no I have not done this as I live in the Seattle area and ( not many long steep hills to climb daily) so my tranny fluid does not tend to get hot.
BTW I am so impressed with this that I am going to add one to my Honda Accord ( I have a spare Gulf Coast filter ..infact the fFrantz was one I bought a year ago on ebay ..$40
I still use the moter guard on the engine ...and after seeing all three units ..the Motor gaurd the Ralph wood seels is the best for filter change out and lack of leaks.
I get that alot..(That I'm full of it....)
Most people laugh right in my face when I start talking about bypass filters..I just tell them what I know based on my expierence from using my bypass filters...Oh well..
I have no doubt in my mind that a transmission installed with a Bypass filter will shift just as smooth with 20 miles on the transmission as with 200,000 miles.. I'm wondering when will the tranny go out altogether?
My other transmissions in my other trucks started to go bad around 150,000 with the stock filtration (Which means none) Is 300,000 miles feasable?? It will be interesting to see... Hey Ralph.. How long will my tranny last?
[ May 15, 2004, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Mykro ]
Do I still need to flush the AT fluid even with the installation of a bypass filter after 3 years/36K miles?
With only 11,000 on it, I would say no, providing the fluid does not smell burned or look super dark. It should be red and smell about the same as what is in a new bottle.
Most light weight vehicles will not suffer the transmission heat that bigger heaver vehicles will. I have a 2 ton truck with a turbo 350 tranny and have never had the fluid burn from overheating the tranny. Here in Phx, the summer temps get to 117 and I only have the cooler that is in the radiator. First tranny lasted 168,000, second lasted 144,000 before pulling it and putting it in my sons project truck.
Install your filter, fill er back up and go have some fun!
Mark
Most light weight vehicles will not suffer the transmission heat that bigger heaver vehicles will. I have a 2 ton truck with a turbo 350 tranny and have never had the fluid burn from overheating the tranny. Here in Phx, the summer temps get to 117 and I only have the cooler that is in the radiator. First tranny lasted 168,000, second lasted 144,000 before pulling it and putting it in my sons project truck.
Install your filter, fill er back up and go have some fun!
Mark
If I were you I would just install....drive for 1000 miles replace the filter..then go on a replacement schedule of once every 5-10000..leave it up to you weather to do a full drain ...I will still do a full drain( once a year) ...but I have a drain plug to make that very easy.
I have read a thread from another forum that draining AT fluid thru drain plug does not remove all the AT fluid. Most of AT fluid is still trapped in the torque converter. That is why the dealer recommends a full flush.
But, by replacing the TP every 5000 years with a qt. of fresh AT fluid does not eliminate the need to replace all the AT fluid at all?
But, by replacing the TP every 5000 years with a qt. of fresh AT fluid does not eliminate the need to replace all the AT fluid at all?
That's assuming the car lasts the full 5000 years!!!
Ha Ha... Sorry I meant 5000 miles.
now that is funny!
In theory I guess the filter does a good enough job to eliminate the need for a flush...hecvk most people don't change there tranny fluid ever..so changing out one quart per 5000 years (
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