Should C.A.F.E standards be raised even higher?

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
Sorry Trav.....I see greed and excess.

What could these people have done with all that money to better the world and society and still have lived a very comfortable life?

Money is not evil...the love of money is the problem.

I agree with this but I don't think its too realistic... Probably a good start would just be an level taxation playing feild for the middle class with the rich and very rich.
What ever the latest stats are for 2% of the population contoling 90% of the wealth, we all know they don't pay 90% of the taxes... Or even a proportional amount to regular folks...

Back to raising CAFE, I think you could look at it as a national security and economic efficiency issue for the U.S. Right now you have a very inefficient transportation system with nearly everyone driving alone getting 22mpg on expensive to maintain roads... So increasing oil prices hurts the U.S. far more than countries with good public transportation systems and it makes consumer spending more volatile. The average german middle class person probably doesn't really care if fuel prices go up a lot as they take the bus or train anyways. And if prices get way out of hand the german government can cut some of their large fuel tax to allow the economy to adjust to the new prices.
So its not all bad having high fuel taxes...

 

[spasm3]

Ditch cafe altogether and people who need fuel efficiency will buy them. The freedom to buy what you want , and for manufacturers to build what people want will only help the economy. Let the market lead where manufacturing runs. If people cannot afford lower mpg vehicles then they will not sell well. If they can afford a vehicle who is to say they should no have it? That type of thinking is available in China, Venezuela and North Korea for anyone wishing to live there.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: Kestas
Raise CAFE standards all you want. You still can't mandate demand.

Also, you can't just snap your fingers and expect manufacturers to make cars more fuel efficient without passing on the costs to the consumers. How much more are you willing to pay for this fuel efficiency?



Exactly. All this talk of electric, hybrid and small cars just does not compute. While Obama, the tree huggers and media talk small cars and alternative fuels...sales tell what the PUBLIC really wants. They sold under 300 Volts, something like 60 leafs but my plant is STILL on max overtime building large GM suvs. People want them and guess what? We only build roughly 25 hybrids a day - so they don't want them either even with 20-21mpg city!

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: ZZman
...
We need to seperate wants from needs.

Don't fool yourselves. We are not free....We only have as much freedom as we are given.


I agree. We need to decide. I do not want someone deciding for me. Neither one of my cars are the most efficient variant of their respective models.

I don't want someone else telling me what my wants or needs are.

I have a client that is an oil rig worker. He drives a Ram 2500 4x4. You might think that he needs that truck, but he works offshore. No matter how capable the Ram/Silverado/Sierra/Super Duty is, it's useless in the middle of the Gulf. He doesn't need that much truck, but one could argue that I don't need a 6cyl or a turbocharged 4 cylinder either .

 

[Bamaro]

Yes and we should also institute a feebate system at time of purchase.

 

[doitmyself]

Indylan touched on a subject no one has mentioned: Carpooling.

2 people in a car would double it's efficiency (not quite). Could you imagine the trickle down savings (tires, oil,roads)?

But, that would require some inconvenience, which we don't want.

And, look at Europe. They have both small cars AND outrageous gas prices. Pity them.

I said it elsewhere, our fundamental attitude about entitlement will drive our country into the ground. I am afraid that the growing world economy is going to sneak up on us and we are going to fall hard. CAFE can increase as technology grows, but we could make such a HUGE difference with just some minor lifestyle changes.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Before they raise CAFE (which I'm personally against) we should mandate lower HP in vehicles. Also lower the speed limit to 60 MPH for vehicles that get over 30 MPG, 55 for 25MPG and 50 for anything less than 20mpg.


I'm all very lowering the speed limit (AGAIN!) except the same all across the board.
How well did that work back in the 70's?

Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah

Take all the trucks off the cross country trips. Put their loads on trains and they deliver from local hubs. Then use that fuel saved to power personal vehicles. Tell the EPA and their anti-diesel where to put it.


What a great idea! Put a lot of truckers out of a job! Obviously neither you or any close family members work in the trucking industry!

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
Ditch cafe altogether and people who need fuel efficiency will buy them. The freedom to buy what you want , and for manufacturers to build what people want will only help the economy. Let the market lead where manufacturing runs. If people cannot afford lower mpg vehicles then they will not sell well. If they can afford a vehicle who is to say they should no have it? That type of thinking is available in China, Venezuela and North Korea for anyone wishing to live there.


I agree. I'm a big guy. Very long legs, big build. What am I suppose to do - buy a Corolla or Civic and take the front seat out and drive from the back seat? I barely fit into my wife's Camry and even then there isn't enough leg room to be comfortable.

For me that's the beauty of the Grand Marquis. I am comfortable in there and it matches and occasionally beats the Camry in city MPG but the Camry does better on highway only driving.

 

[kender]

Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: kender
Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.


First of all I no longer own an SUV. Second - how do you figure - we are "what is wrong in this country today"? Don't we have freedom of choice? Or are you personally going to take it away from us.

And - who is using more "oil"? Me driving about 7 or 8K miles a year in my Grand Marquis, or someone driving some matchbox 30K or more miles a year? Hmmm!

When I hauled my 2 kids and 4 or 5 of their friends to school (think car pool here) was I suppose to drive a Honda Civic? Maybe I could have tied a couple of the kids on a roof rack!

Or maybe my wife's company should sell the Ford vans and buy a KIA 2 door for the 7 adults to go 35 miles to and from work. RIGHT!

Funny thing since my kids are grown - I sold the SUV. Notice the SOLD sign in my signature?

 

[unDummy]

Take CAFE and toss it out the window.

Take the federal gas tax and raise it to $1 for diesel & gasoline.

Eliminate all greenie-fuel subsidies and let the market do its thing.

 

[oldmaninsc]

Plus once you start telling people what they can drive, what next? Tell them how big their house can be? Do two people really need 2-3k square feet or more? Wouldn't something the size of an average motel room be sufficient? It takes a lot of "natural resources" to heat/cool the bigger house.
How about telling people how many kids they can have? So much for freedom!

 

[kender]

Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: kender
Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.



First of all I no longer own an SUV. Second - how do you figure - we are "what is wrong in this country today"? Don't we have freedom of choice? Or are you personally going to take it away from us.

And - who is using more "oil"? Me driving about 7 or 8K miles a year in my Grand Marquis, or someone driving some matchbox 30K or more miles a year? Hmmm!

When I hauled my 2 kids and 4 or 5 of their friends to school (think car pool here) was I suppose to drive a Honda Civic? Maybe I could have tied a couple of the kids on a roof rack!

Or maybe my wife's company should sell the Ford vans and buy a KIA 2 door for the 7 adults to go 35 miles to and from work. RIGHT!

Funny thing since my kids are grown - I sold the SUV. Notice the SOLD sign in my signature?


IMO "freedom of choice" should not include 5,000 pound goliaths that use 3 times the gas to drive someones butt to walmart. Perhaps gas should cost 6 or 7 dollars a gallon. Then a bunch of ego driven clowns will stop "biggie sizing" everything!!

 

[rjundi]

I think a gradual yearly slight increase is fine.

 

[spasm3]

This is starting to sound like " He got more ice cream than i did, he got to ride longer than i did" His car is bigger than mine, its not fair!"

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: kender
Originally Posted By: oldmaninsc
Originally Posted By: kender
Yep, It's our American right to burn up that oil as fast as they can pump it out of the ground. No reason to try to make it last longer. It's not like we're competing with China, India, or other rising economic markets for that same oil.

Sorry guys, but oil is a finite natural resource. Your POS SUV's are a sympton of what is wrong in this country today.



First of all I no longer own an SUV. Second - how do you figure - we are "what is wrong in this country today"? Don't we have freedom of choice? Or are you personally going to take it away from us.

And - who is using more "oil"? Me driving about 7 or 8K miles a year in my Grand Marquis, or someone driving some matchbox 30K or more miles a year? Hmmm!

When I hauled my 2 kids and 4 or 5 of their friends to school (think car pool here) was I suppose to drive a Honda Civic? Maybe I could have tied a couple of the kids on a roof rack!

Or maybe my wife's company should sell the Ford vans and buy a KIA 2 door for the 7 adults to go 35 miles to and from work. RIGHT!

Funny thing since my kids are grown - I sold the SUV. Notice the SOLD sign in my signature?


IMO "freedom of choice" should not include 5,000 pound goliaths that use 3 times the gas to drive someones butt to walmart. Perhaps gas should cost 6 or 7 dollars a gallon. Then a bunch of ego driven clowns will stop "biggie sizing" everything!!

Boy talk about stereotyping and narrow minded. For the record if I can afford to buy one of those "5,000 pound goliaths" then I probably don't care if it takes 100 - 150 bucks to fill it. It's mostly the low income people that are complaining about the cost of gasoline anyhow! really big

Edit: I haven't been to P.A. for a while - but in my neck of the woods there aren't that many of the "big boys" at Walmart but there are a lot of junkers and "ricers" that probably should have been off the road 2 - 3 years ago!

 

[oldmaninsc]

Originally Posted By: spasm3
This is starting to sound like " He got more ice cream than i did, he got to ride longer than i did" His car is bigger than mine, its not fair!"

Boy did you nail it!

 

[subiedriver]

Its fine if someone wants to drive an Expedition, I'm sure it was great when gas was $2/gallon. Now that its $3.50/gallon+, how you like that vehicle?. I snicker when I fill up my Subie for 38 bucks at $3.40/gallon with 30 mpg and they guy next to me is putting $100 in is Expedition at 16 mpg. I have NO sympathy for them, none! Americans think they are entitled to cheap gas so they can drive these pigs, well I think those days are coming to an end!

My dad recently bought a '99 Dodge Cummins for legitimate heavy hauling needs, it gets 20 mpg empty, but at $3.70/gallon for diesel, its a $125 fill-up. But like I said, this truck fills a legitimate need, not just some mall-crawler image machine.

 

[rpn453]

Originally Posted By: unDummy
Take CAFE and toss it out the window.

Take the federal gas tax and raise it to $1 for diesel & gasoline.

Eliminate all greenie-fuel subsidies and let the market do its thing.


I agree. CAFE is ridiculous. Want to drive a gas guzzler for the same purposes as a sub-compact car? Well, we'll just modify it a bit, making the fuel economy even worse than a large car, and we can now classify it as a truck.

Raise fuel taxes and put every cent toward improving our roads!

 

[Torino]

Ah yes. The country (USA) really needs more twinkies standing in line to vote MY rights and freedoms away. Stay home and play your video games. John--Las Vegas.