Short trip VS Viscosity

[xgmad]

A thicker film would coat any internal components for much longer, the thicker it is the less oxidation prone it is, friction between the oil helps accelerate moisture burn off , increasing the longevity of the oil, thicker oils such as a 15w40 have less viscosity improvers which can lead to less oxidation and decreases the eventual degradation of the oil due to less reliance on viscosity index improvers.

Be it diesel or gasoline based motor oil, similar 15w40's should still have relatively similar film strengths due to the base oils and other improvers added, although anti wear additives in diesel oils help maintain film strength much better than gasoline hdeo's due to additive packages and their difference because of the protection of emission components.

a 10w-30 has much better cold flow than a 15w40, 10w30 used to be I believe the standard motor oil for many vehicles.

Although depending on your environment, you should use the appropriate cold start weight, if its snowing, and very cold, a 5w or 0w will offer much better cold flow, at this point the oil is thicker a whole lot , I would not worry about timing chain protection in such coldness, as the oil will be somewhat thicker than the actual cold start weight as stated, so in the winter a 0w-x, or 5w-x , and maybe 10w-x is much better suited than a thicker oil, as coldness increases the viscosity of the oils, even the thinner ones, it should not sacrifice protection.

You have no business using such thin oils in warmer climates, ambient temperatures play a big role in engine temperatures, most vehicles are liquid cooled, and these radiators are cooled by air.

Your oil plays a big part in cooling an engine, using thinner oils in a warmer climate can lead to higher degradation of the oil, a thicker oil should absorb more heat due to higher friction, and a thicker oil has higher film strength, which is why thicker oils are much better suited in hot climates. This goes for short trips aswell, engines will heat up quicker, and hot engines can tolerate thicker oils than shearing oils that can accelerate wear.

It comes down to your ambient environment most importantly.

 

[PimTac]

I would use what the folks that designed the engine say to use. They have taken every conceivable driving situations into consideration with their recommendation.

Agree. In extreme short trip routines I would just decrease the OCI or use the severe service recommendations in the owners manual.

 

[PimTac]

You have no business using such thin oils in warmer climates, ambient temperatures play a big role in engine temperatures, most vehicles are liquid cooled, and these radiators are cooled by air.

So if I take a road trip and the temperature at my destination is in the 90’s or 100’s I should change out my 0w20?


Not likely.

 

[ka9mnx]

A thicker film would coat any internal components for much longer, the thicker it is the less oxidation prone it is, friction between the oil helps accelerate moisture burn off , increasing the longevity of the oil, thicker oils such as a 15w40 have less viscosity improvers which can lead to less oxidation and decreases the eventual degradation of the oil due to less reliance on viscosity index improvers.

Be it diesel or gasoline based motor oil, similar 15w40's should still have relatively similar film strengths due to the base oils and other improvers added, although anti wear additives in diesel oils help maintain film strength much better than gasoline hdeo's due to additive packages and their difference because of the protection of emission components.

a 10w-30 has much better cold flow than a 15w40, 10w30 used to be I believe the standard motor oil for many vehicles.

Although depending on your environment, you should use the appropriate cold start weight, if its snowing, and very cold, a 5w or 0w will offer much better cold flow, at this point the oil is thicker a whole lot , I would not worry about timing chain protection in such coldness, as the oil will be somewhat thicker than the actual cold start weight as stated, so in the winter a 0w-x, or 5w-x , and maybe 10w-x is much better suited than a thicker oil, as coldness increases the viscosity of the oils, even the thinner ones, it should not sacrifice protection.

You have no business using such thin oils in warmer climates, ambient temperatures play a big role in engine temperatures, most vehicles are liquid cooled, and these radiators are cooled by air.

Your oil plays a big part in cooling an engine, using thinner oils in a warmer climate can lead to higher degradation of the oil, a thicker oil should absorb more heat due to higher friction, and a thicker oil has higher film strength, which is why thicker oils are much better suited in hot climates. This goes for short trips aswell, engines will heat up quicker, and hot engines can tolerate thicker oils than shearing oils that can accelerate wear.

It comes down to your ambient environment most importantly.

You really believe all this?

 

[xmanjeff]

does fuel dilution of the oil occur from short triping or just idleing ?
my new 2021 specs out 0 -20 , but seriously thinking of using 5 - 30 for anything other than winter , my last vehicle , a 2016 with same engine specd out 5 -30 ,

 

[ka9mnx]

But they also have to take into consideration that EPA is only happy when CAFE regulations are met, meaning give up viscosity and some protection for the sake of MPG and emissions. And if EPA isn't happy, then huge government fines come into play. It's cheaper to just spec a "lighter" grade and give up long term reliability for the 3rd, 4th, 5th owner of the car, than it is to spec the absolute best oil grade on the market. Geographics and product availability come into play too. A Camry engine in states will spec a 0w20 in the owners manual, but a Camry with exact same engine from the same assembly line and possibly same "batch" will list oil grades from 0w20 up to 20w50 as acceptable oil grades for that engine. Why? CAFE regulations and lawyers. Anyways, back on topic, so which side of the spectrum do you think is best for a short tripper?

Really? So CAFE has been killing engines since 1968?

For a short tripper I would go with the lighter grade oil.

 

[demarpaint]

does fuel dilution of the oil occur from short triping or just idleing ?
my new 2021 specs out 0 -20 , but seriously thinking of using 5 - 30 for anything other than winter , my last vehicle , a 2016 with same engine specd out 5 -30 ,

Fuel dilution can be caused by both short tripping and idling.

 

[ka9mnx]

does fuel dilution of the oil occur from short triping or just idleing ?
my new 2021 specs out 0 -20 , but seriously thinking of using 5 - 30 for anything other than winter , my last vehicle , a 2016 with same engine specd out 5 -30 ,

Why would you go from a 0w-20 in Winter to a 5w-30 in Summer? Makes no sense.

 

[ofelas]

Both.

I don't know your geographical location, but my kid's unplugged & outdoor parked vehicle uses a thick 5w30 with 3.5 HTHS all year round, temps dip to -40 here at times.

A well maintained battery is key, along with an oil that's rated to flow/pour in the ambient, so it doesn't gell up & still pumps.

does fuel dilution of the oil occur from short triping or just idleing ?
my new 2021 specs out 0 -20 , but seriously thinking of using 5 - 30 for anything other than winter , my last vehicle , a 2016 with same engine specd out 5 -30 ,

 

[ofelas]

For the most part, yes.

Once upon a time, Xw30s were considered to be thin oils, and engines kept running, even on heavier grades in ambient temperatures far colder than what SC sees.

You really believe all this?

 

[ZeeOSix]

Vehicle in question is a 2009 Tacoma from my signature.

Does it have a coolant to oil heat exchange on the filter mount?

Is the engine DI? (probably not if a 2009).

What viscosity does the manual recommend?

What's the coldest start-up temperature you can see?

 

[Graham Piccinini]

Does it have a coolant to oil heat exchange on the filter mount?

Not that I'm aware of.

Is the engine DI? (probably not if a 2009).

Nope, basic port-injected 2TR-FE. 2.7L 4 cylinder.

What viscosity does the manual recommend?

USA Manual states 5w20/0w20. The same 2TR-FE in a 2009 Toyota Hilux (rebadged Tacoma overseas) recommends 0w20/5w20/5w30/10w30/15w40 depending on ambient temperature.

What's the coldest start-up temperature you can see?

Coldest when this engine had to start was 15F. But that was a few years ago. Average coldest winter morning here is 25F.

 

[ofelas]

Vlad, a full synthetic 10w30 with HTHS 3.1 to 3.6 and done.

 

[farrarfan1]

You have no business using such thin oils in warmer climates, ambient temperatures play a big role in engine temperatures, most vehicles are liquid cooled, and these radiators are cooled by air.

And yet millions and millions of vehicles have driven millions and millions of miles using thin oils, whatever that is, in warmer climates, wherever that is, every year for the last several decades. Not to mention all of the FCA, Ford, GM, Toyota and Nissan pickups hauling heavy trailers all over the country using oils they "have no business using". Such nonsense.

 

[ofelas]

And yet, millions & millions of vehicles have driven millions & millions of miles using thicker oils in far colder temperatures that you've experienced.

Convince me why I should use a thinner oil with reduced MOFT/HTHS while hauling/towing in cold weather, please?

And yet millions and millions of vehicles have driven millions and millions of miles using thin oils, whatever that is, in warmer climates, wherever that is, every year for the last several decades. Not to mention all of the FCA, Ford, GM, Toyota and Nissan pickups hauling heavy trailers all over the country using oils they "have no business using". Such nonsense.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Not that I'm aware of.

Nope, basic port-injected 2TR-FE. 2.7L 4 cylinder.

USA Manual states 5w20/0w20. The same 2TR-FE in a 2009 Toyota Hilux (rebadged Tacoma overseas) recommends 0w20/5w20/5w30/10w30/15w40 depending on ambient temperature.

Coldest when this engine had to start was 15F. But that was a few years ago. Average coldest winter morning here is 25F.

If it was mine, I'd just run a good full synthetic 5W-30 all year long.

 

[farrarfan1]

And yet, millions & millions of vehicles have driven millions & millions of miles using thicker oils in far colder temperatures that you've experienced.

Convince me why I should use a thinner oil with reduced MOFT/HTHS while hauling/towing in cold weather, please?

I'm not going to try to convince you, or anyone else, what oil they should or shouldn't use because I'm not a know it all "expert" typing paragraph after paragraph lecturing folks on what oil they should use and what oil they "have no business using". I just pointed out that a whole lot of people have been doing exactly what he says they shouldn't for a long time.

 

[ofelas]

And I am not an internet "expert" either.

Just providing a different view based on my experiences.

I'm not going to try to convince you, or anyone else, what oil they should or shouldn't use because I'm not a know it all "expert" typing paragraph after paragraph lecturing folks on what oil they should use and what oil they "have no business using". I just pointed out that a whole lot of people have been doing exactly what he says they shouldn't for a long time.

 

[xgmad]

And yet millions and millions of vehicles have driven millions and millions of miles using thin oils, whatever that is, in warmer climates, wherever that is, every year for the last several decades. Not to mention all of the FCA, Ford, GM, Toyota and Nissan pickups hauling heavy trailers all over the country using oils they "have no business using". Such nonsense.

This is due to increasing fuel efficiency and for CAFE standards.

 

[2EHA]

For the most part, yes.

Once upon a time, Xw30s were considered to be thin oils, and engines kept running, even on heavier grades in ambient temperatures far colder than what SC sees.

20 and 30 monogrades were the norm, eventually replaced by 10w30 and later 5w30. the mostly european fad of very high HTHS oils (e.g 20w50) came and went