Short. OCIs can actually harm engines- emissions

[wemay]

Hmmm, wasting money i can see, but resources?

How is changing oil with a dino at less than 5000 miles less of a waste than doing the same with a synthetic? One is just more severely hydro-cracked which imroves the base stock. The additives included vary by brand and sometimes within the same brand according to viscosity (GTX 5W20 vs GTX 10W40 for instance). So if you're saying the additive package is being wasted... your argument would also be that dumping Synpower, which is thought of as having a "weak" additives pkg by some BITOGERS, at 5000 miles is less wasteful than dumping Pennz Platinum because it uses Moly and Boron?

 

[AirgunSavant]

I guess you forgot the Camry Special Edition S model oil change shown last week on here. Four of those are enough to blow up a tank

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No one ever killed an engine by changing the oil too often.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.
Oil drains out of all the passages when the engine in off. The galleries do not stay full.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: wemay
Hmmm, wasting money i can see, but resources?

How is changing oil with a dino at less than 5000 miles less of a waste than doing the same with a synthetic? One is just more severely hydro-cracked which imroves the base stock. The additives included vary by brand and sometimes within the same brand according to viscosity (GTX 5W20 vs GTX 10W40 for instance). So if you're saying the additive package is being wasted... your argument would also be that dumping Synpower, which is thought of as having a "weak" additives pkg by some BITOGERS, at 5000 miles is less wasteful than dumping Pennz Platinum because it uses Moly and Boron?


I think BIOTGers mean you are under utilizing the product more when you do it with synth.

5k with good dino is under utilizing as well.

 

[BrocLuno]

So ... I've seen many vehicle that will blow a puff of blue smoke with well used oil that will not with clean fresh oil. I always change just before a smog check to make sure the hydrocarbons are at minimum when on the test rig... My cars all have over 100K miles, so maybe I'm biased... But they all run better with fresh oil.

Change it when you want and you feel it needs it. Or, start running lab analysis and go by the facts as presented. Any other option is just someone elses opinion - BFD...

 

[raytseng]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: Doog
If you are changing at less than 5000, you should be using a dino oil.

Excellent. I agree.


Are you basing this just on financials and you are "wasting money" or do you have a technical reason beyond money.

 

[MONKEYMAN]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
So ... I've seen many vehicle that will blow a puff of blue smoke with well used oil that will not with clean fresh oil. I always change just before a smog check to make sure the hydrocarbons are at minimum when on the test rig... My cars all have over 100K miles, so maybe I'm biased... But they all run better with fresh oil.


In my case 120,000 on this Saturn SL2 engine. A 15,000 mile oil change would mean at least 15 quarts of top off oil. I have found changing at 2,5000 or 3,000 reduces smoking and consumption. I am getting good use out of my oil filters by changing them every other OCI. My fumoto valve makes the first oil change a snap.

It is not a perfect world. People tend to do what makes sense based on their experience. It would be nice to have the luxury to philosophize about oil.

Most people I know are just trying to survive.

 

[mctmatt]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: Doog
If you are changing at less than 5000, you should be using a dino oil.

Excellent. I agree.


Per Motor Oil University lesson 103 here at Bob the Oil Guy:

Synthetic oils are derived in the laboratory. They are pure, usually nearly clear. I describe mineral based motor oils as a distilled, concentrated product. The impurities need to be removed from the raw petroleum. These oils are therefore less clean and contain many impurities. Again, the problem is really more of theory than practice but the difference does exist.

People repeatedly say that synthetic oils are more stable in a hot engine. I hear that they lubricate better. The answer is yes and no. Oil molecules do not break down, just the additives. Generally, the synthetic oils do not have VI improvers so have less to lose.

There are some properties of synthetic oils that actually result is less wear than with mineral oils. These help increase your gas mileage as well. Due to a reduction of internal friction of the synthetic oil your engine will run a bit cooler. Wear increases as temperature increases, all other things being constant.

A main advantage that the synthetic has over the mineral based oil is the ability to lubricate at startup. Both types of oil have the same specifications at 104°F, 212°F and 302°F. It is the startup viscosity characteristics that separate these oils. Synthetic oils do not thicken as much on cooling. They have better fluidity as the temperature drops.

A synthetic oil that is labeled as 10w30 is less honey like as a mineral based 10w30 motor oil at startup. They both have a thickness of 10 at normal operating temperatures. At 75°F the synthetic is not as thick. At 32°F the difference between the two is even greater. At 0°F the mineral oil is useless yet the synthetic works fairly well. Just keep the RPM to a minimum.

At temperatures below zero you will not be able to start your car with mineral oils while the synthetic oils may be used to -40° or -50°F. Oils are so thick that the normal method of viscosity measurement is not possible. Instead we measure if the oil can even be pumped or poured. Again, we are only discussing a single category of oil, the multi-grade 10w30 API / SAE grade.

 

[Pontual]

I think a 15k miles oil would be mature at 500 miles in a trip or 1,500 miles at city short tripping, at 4k it did run fine for most of the run. When I say mature it is the add pack had enough heat and cycle to do its magic and clingings.

 

[Virtus_Probi]

Originally Posted By: Doog
If you are changing at less than 5000, you should be using a dino oil.


Subaru recommends 5W30 synthetic and a 3750 mile severe driving condition OCI for my car...according to you, I should switch to dino for severe service?

 

[Hounds]

Zach, the issue you posed in your subject line has, in fact, been the subject of some research in the past -- see http://papers.sae.org/2007-01-4133 -- and the validity of the paper's conclusions debated extensively on this board over the years.

 

[Johnny2Bad]

Originally Posted By: KGMtech
Damage to the engine is not the issue at all, the argument against short OCI is that you are wasting fossil resources by not letting the oil stay in engine as long as it could.

Having said that, what you do is your own business and I have also done OCI at times that suited my schedule more than what the oil was capable of withstanding.


To avoid "wasting fossil resources" (which I agree is a detriment) you just need to insure your used oil is recycled.

 

[Branson304]

Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No one ever killed an engine by changing the oil too often.




D*mn straight...

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.
Oil drains out of all the passages when the engine in off. The galleries do not stay full.

Oh well, than why is that engines are way more noisy on first start after the oil change? Do you really think that all oil drain into the oil pan after shutdown, and every time oil pump needs to prime the system?

 

[zach1900]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.
Oil drains out of all the passages when the engine in off. The galleries do not stay full.

Oh well, than why is that engines are way more noisy on first start after the oil change? Do you really think that all oil drain into the oil pan after shutdown, and every time oil pump needs to prime the system?

I'm just guessing that has more to do with the oil filter that hasn't had its initial prime.

 

[CT8]

Originally Posted By: Branson304
Originally Posted By: SilverC6
No one ever killed an engine by changing the oil too often.




D*mn straight...
Look up all the posts saying
I bought this used car and the engine is spotless from the frequent oil changes so how do I get it sludged up.

 

[gregk24]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.


Change oil filter every other OCI.

 

[camrydriver111]

Originally Posted By: gregk24
Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.


Change oil filter every other OCI.


Changing the filter every other OCI is "half-assing" an oil change according to some of the posters here.

 

[MrQuackers]

Where is that article about the guy that had a garage change his oil every day because it was cheaper than paying for parking?

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: chrisri
The more you change oil (unnecessary) the more times you start your car with oil system not primed, which, in my book, isn't all that good.
Oil drains out of all the passages when the engine in off. The galleries do not stay full.

Oh well, than why is that engines are way more noisy on first start after the oil change? Do you really think that all oil drain into the oil pan after shutdown, and every time oil pump needs to prime the system?

I'm just guessing that has more to do with the oil filter that hasn't had its initial prime.

That is the reason oil filters have antidrain valve, to keep system primed. If there were no harm in starting engine "on dry" OEMs wouldn't bother with ADBV.