People kill people with, or without guns. All it takes is the desire to kill.
Shooting at Connecticut Elementary School
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Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
the problem is simple, the USA is awash with firearms with high capacity magazines, and assault rifles that can trace their lineage to the M16
Really? It's that simple?
And guns do *not* kill people. Right now I'm looking at a pair of hand guns. They are incapable of doing *anything* of their own volition. Explain how, since they can not load themselves, aim themselves, pull their own triggers/hammers, do *nothing* but sit there, kill anyone?
the problem is simple, the USA is awash with firearms with high capacity magazines, and assault rifles that can trace their lineage to the M16
Really? It's that simple?
And guns do *not* kill people. Right now I'm looking at a pair of hand guns. They are incapable of doing *anything* of their own volition. Explain how, since they can not load themselves, aim themselves, pull their own triggers/hammers, do *nothing* but sit there, kill anyone?
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'd like to know more about this guy's mental disorder. If it's a situation where he was normal the day before and only had eight hours to premeditate, he had to think about where he could get guns "that day". So he ripped them off from a family member.
If he couldn't get his hands on the guns, would he have made a fertilizer bomb? Would it have been as effective? Would he have waited a couple days to find a gun (if it were harder to do) during which time he could have snapped out of his funk?
There would have been enough of "whatever" for him to have pulled off the massacre. There always is.
I oft wonder why they choose such a violent means of going about it, when it almost certainly will end with them dead as well...they could take out as many, or more with poison, but choose their own end by violent means. Maybe there's a significant suicide aspect to it.
I'd like to know more about this guy's mental disorder. If it's a situation where he was normal the day before and only had eight hours to premeditate, he had to think about where he could get guns "that day". So he ripped them off from a family member.
If he couldn't get his hands on the guns, would he have made a fertilizer bomb? Would it have been as effective? Would he have waited a couple days to find a gun (if it were harder to do) during which time he could have snapped out of his funk?
There would have been enough of "whatever" for him to have pulled off the massacre. There always is.
I oft wonder why they choose such a violent means of going about it, when it almost certainly will end with them dead as well...they could take out as many, or more with poison, but choose their own end by violent means. Maybe there's a significant suicide aspect to it.
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
People killed by vehicles are accidents - not result of a PURPOSEFUL, pre-meditated act by a person USING the guns to kill! why do people keep comparing a planned massacre like in Newtown using 3 fire arms by a person (NOT an accident) to motor vehicle accidents? there's no difference between a car and a gun used as a weapon??
mind-boggling!
Here is one of your "accidents"
Found in 30 seconds. I could take longer but why waste my time with close minds?
I found 5 more, but, I agree with you.
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
People killed by vehicles are accidents - not result of a PURPOSEFUL, pre-meditated act by a person USING the guns to kill! why do people keep comparing a planned massacre like in Newtown using 3 fire arms by a person (NOT an accident) to motor vehicle accidents? there's no difference between a car and a gun used as a weapon??
mind-boggling!
Here is one of your "accidents"
Found in 30 seconds. I could take longer but why waste my time with close minds?
I found 5 more, but, I agree with you.
Originally Posted By: 97tbird
People killed by vehicles are accidents - not result of a PURPOSEFUL, pre-meditated act by a person USING the guns to kill! why do people keep comparing a planned massacre like in Newtown using 3 fire arms by a person (NOT an accident) to motor vehicle accidents? there's no difference between a car and a gun used as a weapon??
mind-boggling!
Sooooooo, there were no mass murders BEOFRE GUNS WERE EVER MADE...??
People killed by vehicles are accidents - not result of a PURPOSEFUL, pre-meditated act by a person USING the guns to kill! why do people keep comparing a planned massacre like in Newtown using 3 fire arms by a person (NOT an accident) to motor vehicle accidents? there's no difference between a car and a gun used as a weapon??
mind-boggling!
Sooooooo, there were no mass murders BEOFRE GUNS WERE EVER MADE...??
Was the shooter a loner with no girlfriend or friends ?
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
The violence is a symptom, guns or no guns. The problem is cultural.
You seem so angry and panicky and prone to violence. Take away the guns and you'll be stabbing yourselves.
I think it's all the violent video games that young kids are being raised on. I blame Call of Duty for this current generation of absolutely insane 20 somethings.
Are you kidding me? I'm serious, you must be joking. Video games don't make people violent, they don't create killers. I play plenty of violent video games, I've probably racked up a few thousand kills in games like FEAR, Crysis, and most recently, Planetside 2. I'm pretty sure i'm still sane and are absolutely disgusted by this. And so are a lot of people I know who play games.
And I notice it's never young people who actually play games or in this generation that are of this opinion, it's older people who dont' play video games, and think they are a waste of time and money. Well you are entitled to your opinion, but DO NOT try to force your anti-game attitude on those of us normal people who enjoy playing video games.
I totally agree here as a fellow game player. I play Battlefield 2, Call of Duty etc and never have any thoughts of comitting violent acts like what has happened. Generally people who have a dislike of video games make comments like this.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Originally Posted By: uc50ic4more
The violence is a symptom, guns or no guns. The problem is cultural.
You seem so angry and panicky and prone to violence. Take away the guns and you'll be stabbing yourselves.
I think it's all the violent video games that young kids are being raised on. I blame Call of Duty for this current generation of absolutely insane 20 somethings.
Are you kidding me? I'm serious, you must be joking. Video games don't make people violent, they don't create killers. I play plenty of violent video games, I've probably racked up a few thousand kills in games like FEAR, Crysis, and most recently, Planetside 2. I'm pretty sure i'm still sane and are absolutely disgusted by this. And so are a lot of people I know who play games.
And I notice it's never young people who actually play games or in this generation that are of this opinion, it's older people who dont' play video games, and think they are a waste of time and money. Well you are entitled to your opinion, but DO NOT try to force your anti-game attitude on those of us normal people who enjoy playing video games.
I totally agree here as a fellow game player. I play Battlefield 2, Call of Duty etc and never have any thoughts of comitting violent acts like what has happened. Generally people who have a dislike of video games make comments like this.
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Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'd like to know more about this guy's mental disorder. If it's a situation where he was normal the day before and only had eight hours to premeditate, he had to think about where he could get guns "that day". So he ripped them off from a family member.
If he couldn't get his hands on the guns, would he have made a fertilizer bomb? Would it have been as effective? Would he have waited a couple days to find a gun (if it were harder to do) during which time he could have snapped out of his funk?
There would have been enough of "whatever" for him to have pulled off the massacre. There always is.
I oft wonder why they choose such a violent means of going about it, when it almost certainly will end with them dead as well...they could take out as many, or more with poison, but choose their own end by violent means. Maybe there's a significant suicide aspect to it.
Quite simple: It is a lashing out in the most dramatic way possible at a society that didn't accept or understand them. The last act is usually them taking their own lives. It is all just a statement. They feel their own lives are pointless, but they blame society for this, so they lash out with the ultimate end game being their own demise as part of the "message".
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I'd like to know more about this guy's mental disorder. If it's a situation where he was normal the day before and only had eight hours to premeditate, he had to think about where he could get guns "that day". So he ripped them off from a family member.
If he couldn't get his hands on the guns, would he have made a fertilizer bomb? Would it have been as effective? Would he have waited a couple days to find a gun (if it were harder to do) during which time he could have snapped out of his funk?
There would have been enough of "whatever" for him to have pulled off the massacre. There always is.
I oft wonder why they choose such a violent means of going about it, when it almost certainly will end with them dead as well...they could take out as many, or more with poison, but choose their own end by violent means. Maybe there's a significant suicide aspect to it.
Quite simple: It is a lashing out in the most dramatic way possible at a society that didn't accept or understand them. The last act is usually them taking their own lives. It is all just a statement. They feel their own lives are pointless, but they blame society for this, so they lash out with the ultimate end game being their own demise as part of the "message".
There is enough data coming out now that shows a correlation between violent media and violent behavior. Oh, and from a previous poster that only people who hate video games are against games, I have 3 video game consoles and love playing games. I just monitor what my kids watch and play.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/ns/...ens-aggressive/
The biggest problem I see is that parents today do not interact with thier children enough and use gaming and computers as a baby sitter.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/16099971/ns/...ens-aggressive/
The biggest problem I see is that parents today do not interact with thier children enough and use gaming and computers as a baby sitter.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: cchase
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I just do not see any reasonable means of making Americans surrender the 2nd Amendment and/or firearms.
"Making" Americans surrender the 2nd Amendment should never be brought to the table in the first place. It shouldn't be up for discussion. I wonder in how many of these school shootings, the shooter had a firearms license (the proper one for the firearms they were using) and how many were stolen. If you want to reduce the crime, go after people who "allow" their guns to be stolen in the first place, because of course the answer is that legal gun owners are not responsible for 99.999% of crimes involving firearms. They simply aren't.
Agree. Requiring far greater responsibility is not gun control, it's common sense. Root cause for this? The dead mother was an enabler. The irresponsible gun owner is the cause of a huge amount of gun related crime in this country.
It sucks for the responsible component who desires to exercise their rights.
Originally Posted By: Spazdog
I just do not see any reasonable means of making Americans surrender the 2nd Amendment and/or firearms.
"Making" Americans surrender the 2nd Amendment should never be brought to the table in the first place. It shouldn't be up for discussion. I wonder in how many of these school shootings, the shooter had a firearms license (the proper one for the firearms they were using) and how many were stolen. If you want to reduce the crime, go after people who "allow" their guns to be stolen in the first place, because of course the answer is that legal gun owners are not responsible for 99.999% of crimes involving firearms. They simply aren't.
Agree. Requiring far greater responsibility is not gun control, it's common sense. Root cause for this? The dead mother was an enabler. The irresponsible gun owner is the cause of a huge amount of gun related crime in this country.
It sucks for the responsible component who desires to exercise their rights.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
the problem is simple, the USA is awash with firearms with high capacity magazines, and assault rifles that can trace their lineage to the M16
Really? It's that simple?
And guns do *not* kill people. Right now I'm looking at a pair of hand guns. They are incapable of doing *anything* of their own volition. Explain how, since they can not load themselves, aim themselves, pull their own triggers/hammers, do *nothing* but sit there, kill anyone?
While I agree that guns don't kill people, there is no easier conduit short of a high voltage electric line or giant capacitor for which one can direct so much deadly energy so fast and so specifically placed.
Only one is so easily packaged and readily transportable.
We may play with more potential energy in the fuel tank of our car, but the dosing is far different.
So allowing this conduit of energy to get Into someone's hands so easily is beyond me. You don't keep live wires Uninsulated and crossing all over, bare in your home, do you?
Responsibility is key on one end, dealing with the mental population is key on the other.
Originally Posted By: 2004tdigls
the problem is simple, the USA is awash with firearms with high capacity magazines, and assault rifles that can trace their lineage to the M16
Really? It's that simple?
And guns do *not* kill people. Right now I'm looking at a pair of hand guns. They are incapable of doing *anything* of their own volition. Explain how, since they can not load themselves, aim themselves, pull their own triggers/hammers, do *nothing* but sit there, kill anyone?
While I agree that guns don't kill people, there is no easier conduit short of a high voltage electric line or giant capacitor for which one can direct so much deadly energy so fast and so specifically placed.
Only one is so easily packaged and readily transportable.
We may play with more potential energy in the fuel tank of our car, but the dosing is far different.
So allowing this conduit of energy to get Into someone's hands so easily is beyond me. You don't keep live wires Uninsulated and crossing all over, bare in your home, do you?
Responsibility is key on one end, dealing with the mental population is key on the other.
Is it not interesting how much of the info being broadcasted Friday was 100% wrong. It was reported as it was fact, name, age, father, mother being teacher, being let in Fri morn , use of rifle instead of pistols,father dead in home in NJ ,everybody in a rush to give facts yet so much was INITIALLY wrong. Just thinking is this common??Wonder if girlfriend is still missing, who did they pull out of woods who said he had nothing to do with it?More to come to surface I guess initial reports should not be taken as truth more rush to get a upper hand info wise. IMHo also why do they make available hollow point bullets to the public??Interesting!!
I found this thread from a very respected BITOG member this shed some light on rules. IMHO http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...;gonew=1#UNREAD
Originally Posted By: xxch4osxx
I totally agree here as a fellow game player. I play Battlefield 2, Call of Duty etc and never have any thoughts of comitting violent acts like what has happened. Generally people who have a dislike of video games make comments like this.
You're right in that I dislike graphically detailed, violent militaristic first-person shooter games that desensitize young men to the value of life and have translated into massacres carried out in the real world.
There's research to back up my point:
Violent Video Games: More Playing Time Equals More Aggression
I'm pretty sure that news will come out later on that the suspect played Call of Duty and other violent games. I'm seeing mentions of it already.
Adam Lanza: A 'Quiet, Odd' Loner Living On The Fringes
Originally Posted By: News story
Lanza apparently lived in one of the rooms and kept his computer gear and other items in the other one, the sources said. Law officers found evidence that Adam Lanza played graphically violent video games, the sources said.
Another article
Quote:
Last night, a troubling portrait began to emerge of the ‘Goth’ loner, who dressed all in black and was obsessed with video games.
I totally agree here as a fellow game player. I play Battlefield 2, Call of Duty etc and never have any thoughts of comitting violent acts like what has happened. Generally people who have a dislike of video games make comments like this.
You're right in that I dislike graphically detailed, violent militaristic first-person shooter games that desensitize young men to the value of life and have translated into massacres carried out in the real world.
There's research to back up my point:
Violent Video Games: More Playing Time Equals More Aggression
I'm pretty sure that news will come out later on that the suspect played Call of Duty and other violent games. I'm seeing mentions of it already.
Adam Lanza: A 'Quiet, Odd' Loner Living On The Fringes
Originally Posted By: News story
Lanza apparently lived in one of the rooms and kept his computer gear and other items in the other one, the sources said. Law officers found evidence that Adam Lanza played graphically violent video games, the sources said.
Another article
Quote:
Last night, a troubling portrait began to emerge of the ‘Goth’ loner, who dressed all in black and was obsessed with video games.
Another article about the most recent research linking violent video games to violent tendencies:
Playing violent video games for just 20 minutes a day can encourage aggressive behaviour
Quote:
Those who played shoot-em-ups like Call of Duty were more likely to assume the world was hostile and react aggressively
In summation, it looks like what happened was a perfect storm of violence caused by mental illness, Aspergers syndrome, video games, and being raised in a broken home by a divorced, single mother.
Playing violent video games for just 20 minutes a day can encourage aggressive behaviour
Quote:
Those who played shoot-em-ups like Call of Duty were more likely to assume the world was hostile and react aggressively
In summation, it looks like what happened was a perfect storm of violence caused by mental illness, Aspergers syndrome, video games, and being raised in a broken home by a divorced, single mother.
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: INMY01TA
The shooter did not use any automatic weapons. Two handguns.
Glad you confirmed that. WPIX 11 NY news showed a guy shooting an assault rifle and said the killer used a Bushmaster Assault Rifle .223 caliber, like the one in their video to gun down 20 children. Interesting how the media put a twist on things. Still tragic no matter how you cut it.
Bushmaster AR15s are not assault rifles. Just a semi auto rifle. Nothing more, nothing less. The sale of new select fire machine guns (real assault rifles) were banned back in 86. Now they want to take our semi auto rifles? Soon all we'll be left with are bolt action rifles and 5 shot 38 specials. Yeah, that's no infringement on the 2nd ammendment.
Originally Posted By: INMY01TA
The shooter did not use any automatic weapons. Two handguns.
Glad you confirmed that. WPIX 11 NY news showed a guy shooting an assault rifle and said the killer used a Bushmaster Assault Rifle .223 caliber, like the one in their video to gun down 20 children. Interesting how the media put a twist on things. Still tragic no matter how you cut it.
Bushmaster AR15s are not assault rifles. Just a semi auto rifle. Nothing more, nothing less. The sale of new select fire machine guns (real assault rifles) were banned back in 86. Now they want to take our semi auto rifles? Soon all we'll be left with are bolt action rifles and 5 shot 38 specials. Yeah, that's no infringement on the 2nd ammendment.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
I've got a feeling that they won't allow grandfathering to happen a la 1994. I think they'll ban them outright and make unlicensed possession a felony.
Make sure (if you care to) that you have support by joining groups that fight for your rights.
Also it would be suicide for most critters to go that way.
Stay tuned. We will see what/how we are going.
I've got a feeling that they won't allow grandfathering to happen a la 1994. I think they'll ban them outright and make unlicensed possession a felony.
Make sure (if you care to) that you have support by joining groups that fight for your rights.
Also it would be suicide for most critters to go that way.
Stay tuned. We will see what/how we are going.
Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
Another article about the most recent research linking violent video games to violent tendencies:
Playing violent video games for just 20 minutes a day can encourage aggressive behaviour
Quote:
Those who played shoot-em-ups like Call of Duty were more likely to assume the world was hostile and react aggressively
In summation, it looks like what happened was a perfect storm of violence caused by mental illness, Aspergers syndrome, video games, and being raised in a broken home by a divorced, single mother.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/experts-no-link-between-asperger-s-violence
Another article about the most recent research linking violent video games to violent tendencies:
Playing violent video games for just 20 minutes a day can encourage aggressive behaviour
Quote:
Those who played shoot-em-ups like Call of Duty were more likely to assume the world was hostile and react aggressively
In summation, it looks like what happened was a perfect storm of violence caused by mental illness, Aspergers syndrome, video games, and being raised in a broken home by a divorced, single mother.
http://health.yahoo.net/news/s/ap/experts-no-link-between-asperger-s-violence
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