Shifting feel used for rating oil?

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Since when did gear shifter feel become a standard for oil quality? I always thought BITOG was about being objective and scientific? This has to be the least scientific and subjective way to qualify and quantify oil.

How do you know if your engine "likes" oil just because you think it shifts better?

Whatever happened to looking at oil analysis to determine if oil is doing it's job?

Anyone feel like I do about this?
 
Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Since when did gear shifter feel become a standard for oil quality?


Who said it is?

Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Whatever happened to looking at oil analysis to determine if oil is doing it's job?


Many people are really finding out that UOA's are extremely limited when comparing two oils. And very few UOA's actually show the lube to be worn out. I have come to the conclusion, that beyond detecting only some obvious defects within the engine, UOA's are quite limited in what they tell you about a lube "doing it's job"
 
FWIW I've never felt any difference between oils for shifting quality/characteristics. Perhaps my feet aren't sensitive enough.

I've also never felt a difference with shifting throughout an OCI, but I probably don't run them long enough for the shifting quality to change/degrade.

I can tell the difference between different bikes and their shifting/transmission characteristics, my 125R feels like a tractor compared to my WR250R...
 
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Originally Posted By: ZGRider
Since when did gear shifter feel become a standard for oil quality? I always thought BITOG was about being objective and scientific? This has to be the least scientific and subjective way to qualify and quantify oil.

How do you know if your engine "likes" oil just because you think it shifts better?

Whatever happened to looking at oil analysis to determine if oil is doing it's job?

Anyone feel like I do about this?


Way ahead of you on this, but I can buy into it with a bike a little bit. I guess. I suppose. But when someone is running Yellow bottle Pennzoil and switches to Quaker State in a 5W30 SM and proclaims that his 4-cylinder Toyota "likes" the Quaker State, my [censored] alarm rings through the roof.
 
I have no "proof", but believe that I can discern oil degredation throughout a race weekend on my race quad. Fresh oil at the start of a weekend shifts well and by the end of the race, after 7 to 8 hard hours on the oil, I can(believe I can) tell the difference in the shift quality of different oils. Perhaps what I am feeling is the difference in clutch drag as some oils shear to a lower viscosity and others do not shear as badly. IDK
 
Sorry, but this is one criteria I do put on oil, and here's why: Most of the oils I've used in my various bikes in the last two years haven't varied in how they affect shift feel. This all changed when I installed Valvoline M/C oil in my 2007 Ninja 250. I started missing shifts and found myself having to kick the shifter to change gears. I don't know what Valvoline's characteristics are that would cause this scenario, but the difficult shifting was something I was unwilling to live with. If it affected my transmission in this way, why would I think it's treating my engine any better?

When I switched back to Mobil 1 MX4T, (now called Racing 4T) the bike went back to shifting like it did when I first bought it.

So yes, shift feel is the reason I denounce the use of Valvoline M/C oil. I have nothing else to go by since it was the only noticable side-effect.
 
"Hello, I'm RWEST and I'm a shift-feeler".
(BITOG respondents, in nasally, disinterested voice): "Hi RWEST".
crazy2.gif


So far, my highly educated toe has selected Mobil 1 15-50 (the old REDCap) as the best-shift-feeling of all the ones (OEM fills, Pennzoil 15-40, RTS 5-40, Castrol ACTevo 10-40, and M1 10-40) I've tried.
thumbsup2.gif
Since Red Cap has gone the way of the dodo, I'm gonna' be trying SILVER Cap next.
 
I think that there can be some type of qualitative feature applied here, but not a quantitative feature.

Certainly shift feel is important to most of us, but often it's more a function of the design of the tranny, drum, and clutch plate(s) than the oil. The lube might be able to intensify a sensation, but I don't know that it could create one.

To put a funny, non-related perspective on it, it reminds me of the old joke Bill Cosby told in the "Himself" video. To paraphrase: "Alcohol does not change your personality, it intensifies it. Yeah, but what if you're a jerk?"

Shift feel is very subjective; even the same bike won't feel the same way to two different people, as we all have prejudices and preferences.

Further, many don't stop to think that, in a wet-clutch design, thicker oils with greater friction holding capability can actually be a detriment. After all, the clutch plates are supposed to seperate when you pull the lever, to allow the dis-similar shaft speeds to be equalized by the syncro's. Thick oils that cling to everything actually make it harder to shift, because the clutch plates will not release as easily. And yet, many times we hear people blame the tranny gears or shift drum, when the lube is the culprit. Our desires can be at odds; we want a thick oil to withstand the gear-to-gear contact, but yet we need a thin oil to release easily and quickly.

I would never simply choose a lube because if "felt" better. But I cannot deny that there are applications where one product does provide a more desireable effect over another. The question becomes this; where does the shift feel rank in importantance compared to wear protection, cooling capability, cleaning effects, etc? How do you rate a subjective emotion in regard to objective data?
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Hence, the incredibly complex and diverse world of lubricants ...
 
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I always felt that 15W-50 and 15W-40 shifted better in my bikes than 5W-40, also when the oil has a few thousand miles on it the shifting always seems to get worse. I think it's a matter of viscosity more than brand or MC oil over car oil.
 
Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Sorry, but this is one criteria I do put on oil, and here's why: Most of the oils I've used in my various bikes in the last two years haven't varied in how they affect shift feel. This all changed when I installed Valvoline M/C oil in my 2007 Ninja 250. I started missing shifts and found myself having to kick the shifter to change gears. I don't know what Valvoline's characteristics are that would cause this scenario, but the difficult shifting was something I was unwilling to live with. If it affected my transmission in this way, why would I think it's treating my engine any better?

When I switched back to Mobil 1 MX4T, (now called Racing 4T) the bike went back to shifting like it did when I first bought it.

So yes, shift feel is the reason I denounce the use of Valvoline M/C oil. I have nothing else to go by since it was the only noticable side-effect.
I had the same problem with my 250. I was missing gears left and right with valvoline.
 
Originally Posted By: Hans
I always felt that 15W-50 and 15W-40 shifted better in my bikes than 5W-40, also when the oil has a few thousand miles on it the shifting always seems to get worse. I think it's a matter of viscosity more than brand or MC oil over car oil.



I would agree. Any oil I have tried in my bike starts off with smoother shifting and then gets, clunky.

Currently, I am on a 4k run of Amsoil. At about 3k miles, the hard, clunky shifts became obvious.

With Rotella Synthetic, Mobil 1 R4T, Amsoil and Mobil 15w50....they were all silk smooth in the beginning, but all of them allowed the shifting to become clunky at various stages.

From this point forward, I am going to keep my OCI's at 3k miles.
 
Quote:
Since when did gear shifter feel become a standard for oil quality?

You must be new here. Shift feel is used in many postings and responses for automotive manual and automatic transmissions. It certainly applies to bikes as well, especially those that use engine oil in the transmissions and wet clutches.
 
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