Royal Dutch Shell (through their Pennz & QS brands), has by far the largest share of the QuikLube market. The business model for these stores depends on oil changes (and selling additional services like wiper blades, air filters, etc), every 3k-5k miles. This is why Shell is so opposed to extended drains & why they have tied their engine warrantees to 4k changes. (They consider even 4000 mile changes a concession from their usual 3000 miles). Of course this puts them in the position of defending a position that's indefensible. For example, if 4k changes with Ultra are required for severe service, what about PP or PYB? Do these then require changes every 2k-3k miles? The whole concept is absurd....
Shell's Business Model
- Thread starter buster
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I'm starting to worry about you buster.
From another post I made:
Everyone IMHO is way to hung up on this 4K oil change thing. They have explained on several of these Q&A why they do this, it is for their 500K warranty on lubricated parts. Heck, go pay extra for an extended warranty and see what it says about extended drains.
Where everyone either stops reading or just blocks everything else out is the next thing they say in their answers, they recommend changing per the OEM recommendations. I believe one answer refers to Honda and its 7.5K drain recommendation and on another Q&A they plainly state if the OLM says change your oil at 12K-15K the Ultra will do it. Do what the OEM says.
Heck, even the so called extended drain oils, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol Edge, and Amsoil recommend cutting it in half under severe conditions.
But if you insist on an oil saying 15K on the label, buy another brand.
The 4K drain thing is only if you want to participate in the Pennzoil warranty and it is pretty evident that you extreme extended folks don't care about warranties because the OEM's don't recommend it either.
From another post I made:
Everyone IMHO is way to hung up on this 4K oil change thing. They have explained on several of these Q&A why they do this, it is for their 500K warranty on lubricated parts. Heck, go pay extra for an extended warranty and see what it says about extended drains.
Where everyone either stops reading or just blocks everything else out is the next thing they say in their answers, they recommend changing per the OEM recommendations. I believe one answer refers to Honda and its 7.5K drain recommendation and on another Q&A they plainly state if the OLM says change your oil at 12K-15K the Ultra will do it. Do what the OEM says.
Heck, even the so called extended drain oils, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol Edge, and Amsoil recommend cutting it in half under severe conditions.
But if you insist on an oil saying 15K on the label, buy another brand.
The 4K drain thing is only if you want to participate in the Pennzoil warranty and it is pretty evident that you extreme extended folks don't care about warranties because the OEM's don't recommend it either.
Synthetic has its advantages but I never bought into the idea that it extended the drain interval that much more than a good conventional. The engine and drive cycle set the OCI. I'm not sure,I know Mobil recommends following the manufactures OCI but does Mobil EP offer an engine warranty and allow 15K OCI? It might be better marketing for Pennzoil to label Ultra "extended-performance" but I think it would just be marketing and nothing else.
I do not know where you live in NJ but if you drove around a place like let say Astoria and did long drain peroids your problems motor wise would be major. That is Astoria Queens. I just saw up close 10500 mi oci with syn did to a engine so everything is relative in this world.
Originally Posted By: buster
Royal Dutch Shell (through their Pennz & QS brands), has by far the largest share of the QuikLube market. The business model for these stores depends on oil changes (and selling additional services like wiper blades, air filters, etc), every 3k-5k miles. This is why Shell is so opposed to extended drains & why they have tied their engine warrantees to 4k changes. (They consider even 4000 mile changes a concession from their usual 3000 miles). Of course this puts them in the position of defending a position that's indefensible. For example, if 4k changes with Ultra are required for severe service, what about PP or PYB? Do these then require changes every 2k-3k miles? The whole concept is absurd....
Originally Posted By: buster
Royal Dutch Shell (through their Pennz & QS brands), has by far the largest share of the QuikLube market. The business model for these stores depends on oil changes (and selling additional services like wiper blades, air filters, etc), every 3k-5k miles. This is why Shell is so opposed to extended drains & why they have tied their engine warrantees to 4k changes. (They consider even 4000 mile changes a concession from their usual 3000 miles). Of course this puts them in the position of defending a position that's indefensible. For example, if 4k changes with Ultra are required for severe service, what about PP or PYB? Do these then require changes every 2k-3k miles? The whole concept is absurd....
SOPUS wants you to change both oils, PYB and Ultra at 4k intervals - what they have said is if you do so, you will have a cleaner engine with Ultra.
The benefit is you will have a cleaner, better running engine by using their better product. The other one will work fine, but your engine won't be operating optimally.
They are a business....can't blame them for what they are doing.
The benefit is you will have a cleaner, better running engine by using their better product. The other one will work fine, but your engine won't be operating optimally.
They are a business....can't blame them for what they are doing.
Originally Posted By: buster
Worried? Why?
Shell makes excellent oils, and in fact they have a better product line than King M1, but you have to admit there is truth to what I said.
People were changing their oil every 3k miles in the 1950's! LOL
No most people were changing their oil MORE often. Oils were worst, engines were worst, LEAD was in the fuel and worst of all it was a thing called a carburetor on the top of most engines.
Bill
Worried? Why?
Shell makes excellent oils, and in fact they have a better product line than King M1, but you have to admit there is truth to what I said.
People were changing their oil every 3k miles in the 1950's! LOL
No most people were changing their oil MORE often. Oils were worst, engines were worst, LEAD was in the fuel and worst of all it was a thing called a carburetor on the top of most engines.
Bill
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They are a business....can't blame them for what they are doing.
Yeah. Go find some stranger in the street ..point to him ..and say "THAT'S HIM!!". He can accept the blame if any is to be assigned.
My gosh, buster. Don't you know anything?
They are a business....can't blame them for what they are doing.
Yeah. Go find some stranger in the street ..point to him ..and say "THAT'S HIM!!". He can accept the blame if any is to be assigned.
My gosh, buster. Don't you know anything?
"Of course this puts them in the position of defending a position that's indefensible. For example, if 4k changes with Ultra are required for severe service, what about PP or PYB? Do these then require changes every 2k-3k miles? The whole concept is absurd...."
I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
I don't think it means what he thinks it means.
I am surprised that with so many sludge prone engines in service and misinformed consumers that any company would recommend extended OCI.
I have very few customers that would say they drive under severe conditions,5k around town,short trips,etc in their minds is easy on the car and oil.
I can only think of a few customers that could be a real extended OCI candidate's,60-100 mi highway driving daily,few short trips,little idling time etc.Funny one guy thinks he is hard on the car and the oil,he demands an OC every 3k with synthetic.
I have very few customers that would say they drive under severe conditions,5k around town,short trips,etc in their minds is easy on the car and oil.
I can only think of a few customers that could be a real extended OCI candidate's,60-100 mi highway driving daily,few short trips,little idling time etc.Funny one guy thinks he is hard on the car and the oil,he demands an OC every 3k with synthetic.
It is more of a risk model. I don't believe it has anything to do with the capability of their synthetic oil to go long intervals, rather that Shell doesn't know what you did during that oci. Also, every vehicle is different, some are more prone to lubrication issues. Shell has to make a determination if a warranty claim is submitted. This costs them money to determine if it was a lubrication failure or something else. Sometimes it is difficult to distinguish a mechanical failure from a lubrication failure (which came first?). And finally, any warranty is really just insurance and you pay a premium for it (ie, 4k oci's).
Originally Posted By: Bill in Utah
Originally Posted By: buster
Worried? Why?
Shell makes excellent oils, and in fact they have a better product line than King M1, but you have to admit there is truth to what I said.
People were changing their oil every 3k miles in the 1950's! LOL
No most people were changing their oil MORE often. Oils were worst, engines were worst, LEAD was in the fuel and worst of all it was a thing called a carburetor on the top of most engines.
Bill
Yeah but Bill,the sound of a Quadrejet wide open is music to my ears.
Originally Posted By: buster
Worried? Why?
Shell makes excellent oils, and in fact they have a better product line than King M1, but you have to admit there is truth to what I said.
People were changing their oil every 3k miles in the 1950's! LOL
No most people were changing their oil MORE often. Oils were worst, engines were worst, LEAD was in the fuel and worst of all it was a thing called a carburetor on the top of most engines.
Bill
Yeah but Bill,the sound of a Quadrejet wide open is music to my ears.
Originally Posted By: Johnny
I'm starting to worry about you buster.
From another post I made:
Everyone IMHO is way to hung up on this 4K oil change thing. They have explained on several of these Q&A why they do this, it is for their 500K warranty on lubricated parts. Heck, go pay extra for an extended warranty and see what it says about extended drains.
Where everyone either stops reading or just blocks everything else out is the next thing they say in their answers, they recommend changing per the OEM recommendations. I believe one answer refers to Honda and its 7.5K drain recommendation and on another Q&A they plainly state if the OLM says change your oil at 12K-15K the Ultra will do it. Do what the OEM says.
Heck, even the so called extended drain oils, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol Edge, and Amsoil recommend cutting it in half under severe conditions.
But if you insist on an oil saying 15K on the label, buy another brand.
The 4K drain thing is only if you want to participate in the Pennzoil warranty and it is pretty evident that you extreme extended folks don't care about warranties because the OEM's don't recommend it either.
I change mine still at 3000/4000. With this LIM gasket problem I'd have NO oil if I extended the change time.
I'm starting to worry about you buster.
From another post I made:
Everyone IMHO is way to hung up on this 4K oil change thing. They have explained on several of these Q&A why they do this, it is for their 500K warranty on lubricated parts. Heck, go pay extra for an extended warranty and see what it says about extended drains.
Where everyone either stops reading or just blocks everything else out is the next thing they say in their answers, they recommend changing per the OEM recommendations. I believe one answer refers to Honda and its 7.5K drain recommendation and on another Q&A they plainly state if the OLM says change your oil at 12K-15K the Ultra will do it. Do what the OEM says.
Heck, even the so called extended drain oils, Mobil 1 EP, Castrol Edge, and Amsoil recommend cutting it in half under severe conditions.
But if you insist on an oil saying 15K on the label, buy another brand.
The 4K drain thing is only if you want to participate in the Pennzoil warranty and it is pretty evident that you extreme extended folks don't care about warranties because the OEM's don't recommend it either.
The 4000 mile OCI is to pay for the engines they have to replace. If you are going to have to replace some engines (and they would even if you changed the oil every 400 miles) you have to pay for it.
If they clear a buck a qt on PU then 4000 mile changes vs 10000 mile changes with a 5 qt average capacity gives them $375 to put in the engine replacement fund. That should easily replace all the engines (even if they all fail) that are kept until they die. I suspect that might be one owner in twenty at most and I suspect it would be much less.
If they clear a buck a qt on PU then 4000 mile changes vs 10000 mile changes with a 5 qt average capacity gives them $375 to put in the engine replacement fund. That should easily replace all the engines (even if they all fail) that are kept until they die. I suspect that might be one owner in twenty at most and I suspect it would be much less.
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IDK what the big deal is, Im new to posting here but it seems like you have a few options...
Go by what they say if you want the warranty.
If you dont want the warranty go by what you want to.
and if your disgusted by their warranty requirements, dont buy the oil.
Its pretty simple thinking, nothing fancy.
-Vic
Go by what they say if you want the warranty.
If you dont want the warranty go by what you want to.
and if your disgusted by their warranty requirements, dont buy the oil.
Its pretty simple thinking, nothing fancy.
-Vic
It's not a big deal, I'm just pointing out the obvious. LOL.
I'm a big fan of Shell oils too btw. I think Ultra is a new standard in synthetic oils and better than Mobil 1. I have no doubt Ultra performs better than M1 in the Seq IVA and maybe the IIIG.
A lot of people are living in the past or in denial because extended drain intervals are not only doable, but becoming more common as time goes. It's called progress.
I'm a big fan of Shell oils too btw. I think Ultra is a new standard in synthetic oils and better than Mobil 1. I have no doubt Ultra performs better than M1 in the Seq IVA and maybe the IIIG.
A lot of people are living in the past or in denial because extended drain intervals are not only doable, but becoming more common as time goes. It's called progress.
Im still trying to get over the 3k oil change. The furthest I made it was just recently on my honda, 3,9xx miles. The OLM was at 10% though, so Im sure it was changed accordingly. Im in NYC and man is this place hard on a vehicle... just saying.
Oh and no worries on stating the obvious, you know what they say --> common sense isnt so common.
Oh and no worries on stating the obvious, you know what they say --> common sense isnt so common.
Subaru wants me to change every 3750 miles here in Canada, so I obey and do it. Since we got a second car miles on the Subaru will be less than 8k miles per year, so I'll probably just change it every six months until my stash runs out and reevaluate.
I like extended drains, but they have their place. No blanket recommendation is ideal for every application. 4k miles really makes sure they cover the most severe.
I like extended drains, but they have their place. No blanket recommendation is ideal for every application. 4k miles really makes sure they cover the most severe.
Every 6,000 km. Must have a very strong dealer council in Canada. They have input into service intervals. Opportunity to find things to repair and increased showroom traffic which leads to increased revenues.
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