severe service M1 oil analysis

[JHZR2]

Hi,

I have an analysis of what some would call severe service. My mother's 1997 Plymouth Breeze (2.0L engine, automatic trans) is operated as follows: start drive 5 blocks in the AM, Start drive 5 blocks 3.5 hrs later, start drive 5 blocks 45minutes later, start drive 5 blocks 2 hours later. Yes, five days a week, the car gets used to drive five suburban blocks 4 times a day. It also gets used to drive to the shoprite which is a mile or two away, to my brother's hockey practices, which are 5 miles away. On the weekend, it usually gets driven aboiut 200 miles, all in trips over 15 miles each (two of them being 72mi).
I figured this is pretty severe service. The car usually doesnt warm up, and if so, just barely (im sure the oil isnt warmed up yet). The car operates more in the 0 or 5w- range at cold temps than in the -30 range such as when it is hot.

The oil is a mixture of 2.5qts M1 0w-30, 2 qts M1 5w-30. No additional oil added. Filter was the Supertech model for this engine (ST5593A or something like that cmes to mind).
I lost the paper that I had written the mileage down on, so I dont know the exact miles on the oil, but Id say it is about 4500mi. Figure the start and drive five blocks behavior M-F every week from Christmas to 5-12-03, plus the weekend driving on half of those weekends, and a few longer trips.

All in all, id say the M1 did quite well, but comments would be appreciated. Analysis done by wear-check USA.

DIAGNOSED by KeithS on Monday, May 19, 2003 at 10:49
Lab Number 00516502
Sample Date 5/12/2003
Unit Age 60240m
Time on Fluid 4500m
Time on Filter 4500m
Fluid Maint. Changed
Filter Maint. Changed
Fluid Mobil 1 0w-30/5w-30 mix (supersyn API SL)
Iron (Fe) 21
Chromium (Cr) 0.8
Nickel (Ni) 1.1
Titanium (Ti) 0.2
Silver (Ag) 0.0
Aluminum (Al) 8.2
Lead (Pb) 0.2
Copper (Cu) 2.9
Tin (Sn) 0.0
Silicon (Si) 11
Sodium (Na) 5.2
Potassium (K) 0.0
Boron (B) 142
Barium (Ba) 0.0
Molybdenum (Mo) 67
Magnesium (Mg) 20
Calcium (Ca) 2510
Phosphorus (P) 820
Zinc (Zn) 928
Sulfur (S) 2373
Cadmium (Cd) 0.0
Manganese (Mn) 0.5
Vanadium (V) 0.0
Soot(%) 0
Oxidation(PA)
Nitratrion(PA)
Sulfation(PA)
ZDDP 0.00
Kv@100°C 10.66
White Metal NONE
Babbitt NONE
Precipitate NONE
Silt NONE
Debris NONE
Dirt NONE
Appearance NORML
Odor NORML
H2O(Emul) NEG
H2O(Free) NEG

[ May 20, 2003, 10:03 AM: Message edited by: JHZR2 ]

 

[Patman]

Those short trips in cold weather are driving the iron up, but honestly that's not too bad all things considered. The lead number is excellent! I bet the summertime results look much better, since there will be much less moisture in the oil to cause that high iron.

 

[Steve S]

Patman your are soon to be analysis reading master.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Steve S:
Patman your are soon to be analysis reading master.

---

Not quite, but I like to play one on the internet!

I owe all my knowledge to this site and to Terry Dyson!

 

[Spector]

The long weekend trips I feel contributed to the excellent report as well. If these were eliminated I think the results would be much different.

 

[Jay]

Why mix the two oils? I think you may do better to stick with one or the other.

 

[Al]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jay:
Why mix the two oils? I think you may do better to stick with one or the other.

---

I agree. In DE you can easily go with M1 10W-30 all year round.. I agree with Patman about the irons. Good report though.

[ May 20, 2003, 08:39 PM: Message edited by: Al ]

 

[Matt89]

Looking at this makes me wonder - how would cars whose "severe service" (with dino oil)interval is 5K miles or 6 months have fared under these conditions? Volvos and new Hondas come to mind. Are these two highly regarded companies "throwing us under the bus" with their recommendations, or do they just have lower standards for what is deemed "acceptable engine wear". Are those standards high enough?

Sorry if I keep beating the dead horse on this, I'm just fascinated by the breakdown in the free market system that has resulted in the average guy not being able to get a clear message on when to perform a simple maintenance function. Seems like everyone hammers the 3K mile/3 month mantra to fit their agenda - dino oil producers & quiklubers to sell more oil, and synthetic producers to show how "extending" drains all the way up to the manufacturer's recommendations (i.e. M1) is possible with their product. AMSOIL/extended drain proponents use the 3K/3month mantra to show how their oil is not as bad a deal financially as it first seems. It becomes a false dichotomy if you use the manufacturer's rec's as a baseline, and very few automakers mention 3K/3mo anymore unless you're driving in the desert (dust).

Don't get me wrong, oil analysis is interesting on its own merits, but people shouldn't have to get their oil privately analyzed to confirm whether the manufacturer's oil change recommendations are legitimate...that would be like testing your own tap water to make sure it's healthy! Who does that?

I promise, at some point soon I'll let this go

 

[Steve S]

Well, I have a good friend who works for a municipal water district and I gave him a gallon of tap water for him to get tested. Honest. Analysis is used to determine oil condition,to forcast potential mechanical problems . As to changing oil, things change on useage and what oil is used and how its used depends on the service schedule .IMO changing oil too often won't hurt anything except the pocket book and most people waste money any way . Every company advertises their oil is the best on the market,the guys here are proving which works the best by sharing the anaylsis reports .

 

[Matt89]

I agree that analysis is a great check on the BS advertising...

The way I see it, it's like how when you are buying a new car, the salesman can't say enough about how well the car is made/engineered etc, but then the finance guy tells you that you need the extended warrantee and the service manager says that the engineers' maintenance recommendations are hosed!

I don't agree with the quick lubes' "Cheap insurance" idea though. Even one extra oil change a year times millions of cars is a lot of waste. We wouldn't put up with the government taking an extra few bucks in taxes ("it's the principle" everyone would say) so I don't know why people let it happen when it comes to oil changes/recommendations etc.

But, since the fear of engine wear has been instilled, I'll probably just overmaintain my car too...

 

[quadrun1]

Great report considering the circumstances. For most cars (sludge-monster Camrys excepted) it's probably safe to go to the maximum manufacturer-recommended drain interval (usually 5,000 to 7,500 miles) even under "severe use", so long as you use a good synthetic like Mobil 1.

I generally frown upon 3,000-mile "Quickie-Lube" intervals for these reasons and more:

1) some of those grease monkeys screw up the oil change (drain out the transaxle or whatever)
2) most of them don't prefill the oil filter... more dry starts
3) their "bulk" oil probably is of questionable quality and might be contaminated (as Bob points out)
4) who knows what kind of oil filter they're using?!

 

[Spector]

quote:

---

Originally posted by quadrun1:
I generally frown upon 3,000-mile "Quickie-Lube" intervals for these reasons and more:

1) some of those grease monkeys screw up the oil change (drain out the transaxle or whatever)
2) most of them don't prefill the oil filter... more dry starts
3) their "bulk" oil probably is of questionable quality and might be contaminated (as Bob points out)
4) who knows what kind of oil filter they're using?!

---

5) forget to tighten the drain plug
6) filter not quite tight enough and leaks
7) check to see if they can sell an air filter and do not replace it properly

 

[YZF150]

I'm just fascinated by the breakdown in the free market system

Matt, it is just the opposite. The market is not broken down, it is running away, it is metastasizing, it is galloping and the rider has dropped the reins. Just as so many individuals have checked their scruples, reason, and morals at the door, so too have industry abandoned any pretense of actual service integrity. Gone are the days when a proprietor owed his or her livelihood to a mutually beneficial relationship with the customer. Now, most businesses are staffed by worker bees who could give a sh it whether you bought anything or not. This is pure, unchecked, full metal capitalism.

These the reasons we're all here. We're trying to figure this stuff out for ourselves, because the companies can't or won't tell us jack. And when they do tell us anything, we've all learned from experience to be skeptical, because we might be just another mark.

[ May 23, 2003, 11:12 PM: Message edited by: YZF150 ]

 

[YZF150]

8) Forget to put oil in at all.
9) Forget to replace the filler cap.
10) Drop a shop towel into the pulley system.

 

[Bror Jace]

It's the reasons stated above that I:

1) Do my own oil changes and ...

2) send periodic oil samples away to be tested.

Now, let's hope the labs maintain at least decent standards.

--- Bror Jace