Settling as filtration prep a long drain interval

[Rosetta]

So, I use Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I've seen a lot of unwanted varnish in dino lubed engines and a lot of scratches in synthetics long drain intervals. The problem with long drain with syn, is particle count. So I had an idea a few years ago. Why not use the synthetic oil for 5k miles and as a cautious measure, drain it out and storage it in a hermetic closed container, with a strong neodimium (rare earth) magnet at the bottom for decantaion and iron collection. So, I fill the sump with fresh synthetic oil, new filter, run for 5k miles and drain again at the end of these 5k. Then I Go back to the previous used stored (still good) oil to run it again for 5k miles with a new filter. When it gets 10k, the additives are depleted, I send it to recycling. And this goes on and on.

That way, by almost 4 months decantation, I put all those particles above 5-6 ... microns to the bottom of the container and when I reuse, I have a pretty well gravity filtered oil, without the use of a bypass filter. The dispersant gives a temporary dispersion and giving time most of the particles, specially the harmfull bigger ones, will hit the bottom and settle down.

I have saved a lot of oil and managed the risks

Just an idea that could be of interest for somebody afraid of todays long drain interval and particle count ...

 

[HTSS_TR]

My 20 years old 1994 LS400 with more than 360k miles have up to 18-20k/12mo OCI with various synthetic oil, the engine is still running good but body and interior parts are falling.

The way you do is too much time consuming, just leave synthetic oil in the engine for the full OCI of 10k or longer. Most newer car engines will outlasted other parts, you will rid of the car before its engine has any problem with any oil, syn or dino.

 

[Shannow]

I like the idea, and have toyed with Mobil 2 using a shortish OCI in the main vehicle, and again in the "beater"...had a neighbour did it religiously with his Volvo Turbo, and Datsun 1200s...

I just don't think that you can keep decanted oil clean/dry enough to do what you are proposing...

That being said, I'm going to place an ex hard drive magnet in a zip-lok bag, and drop it in a jug of used oil and see what it picks up (baggie means that I can pull the mud off the magnet).

Cheers

PS, I'm starting to agree with HTSS_TR, in having maintained my only ever new car with synthetics...it's 10 years old now, and the lubricated bits in as new condition...alas, it's 10 years old, will be replaced one day in the next 10, and resale will not reflect the thousands spent on lubricants and filters.

 

[Rosetta]

Yes Shannow, the neodimio magnets are the ones used in hard drives.

Ah, in a closed container with almost nothing of air, the oil won't get any moisture. But you have to wait a few months of decantation for the dispersant let go the small particles.

And if my EJ Subie engine endures too much like way beyond the rest of the frame, I can always put that engine in a Manx buggy. How cool is that?

Cheers

 

[Rosetta]

I understand what ur saying that your engines can handle the particles count without "much more wear". But a 15 minute oil change twice a year won't hurt also, right?

 

[boundarylayer]

The specific gravity of the solid particles (relative to the oil) would need to be greater than 1 for this to work. And of course magnets only work on iron. Decantation might just work, as silica should settle out. Any minerals would too.

Similar idea would be to take the oil out and filter it through some lab-quality filter paper at about 1 microns performance. That would be quicker and easy. Or those Micro Green oil filters filter down to 2 microns which are the best I've seen.

 

[boundarylayer]

Take it out and filter it: http://193.218.17.133/ex/downloads/filtration/Whatman_filter_paper_guide_de.pdf and they have stuff good for less than 2 microns. Would need to set up a 5 quart jug with a smallhole in the bottom which drips into a funnel with the round filter paper taped across it, going into another 5 quart jug.

 

[Mackelroy]

How much synthetic is in mobil 1?

Really if plaque its the concern, amsoil or redline.

 

[Phishin]

Here's what I do:

I run 5k mile synthetic OCI's in my Honda and my Subaru. My Honda gets a 30 weight (Pennzoil Ultra 5w30) and my Subie a 40 weight (Mobil 1 Turbo Diesel Truck 5w40). When I drain the oil into a clean pan, and then filter through Whatman Grade 44 filter paper.

This is then used in my oil burning truck. A quart only lasts 400-600 miles in that thing anyway before another is added.

In the spring, I drain it all out. Refill with Maxlife 20w50, and start over with top off's of used oil from my Honda and Subie. My cars get oil changes in the spring and fall. That gives me about 16 quarts of filtered used oil to feed into the old truck. I put about 5-7k miles on her a year, so I need 10-16 quarts of top off oil around. Works great for me.

 

[charbaby]

You can also install the rare earth magnets at/near the drain plug of the oil pan for your whole OCI. Then, remove the magnets prior to opening the drain plug and let the metal particles flow out when the oil drains.

Just another idea!

 

[2009Edge]

Put rare earth magnets on your oil filter can, then just change the filter.

 

[Rosetta]

I did that, mag in the can, but my impression is that, in small filters like the one in my kawa bike, the magnet is so strong (about 6 pounds of force) that the by pass is influenced and gets opened more times than necessary. Once I drained the oil and it had a lot of aglutination and particles that the filter should trap. I stopped the mag in filter that day. Although I do use in the drain plug nowadays.

 

[Rosetta]

Exactly, i think soot/sludge and varnish is heavier than oil. Isn't it?

 

[Rosetta]

Good! If i find here, I'm gonna try this whatman filter, the pre pleaded on, for quick filtration.
Cheers

 

[stickybuns]

A big "me too" for this Whatman filter thing. Looks like low-ash is best, and getting down to 2 microns is the best available.

Also, I'm going to try putting a small funnel inside a larger funnel, the small funnel compeletely covered on top and inserted inside the big funnel. Or, I could just get lazy and tape the filter paper over the mouth of the 5 quart jug the new oil came in, and let the oil drip into a new jug below it.

 

[stickybuns]

Whatman 602 too expensive! They want you to buy a pack of 100. Maybe a roll of Toilet Paper will work, yet what microns? As in, maybe a coffee filter lined with many sheets of TP on the inside?

 

[Zaedock]

Originally Posted By: Rosetta
So, I use Mobil 1 synthetic oil. I've seen a lot of unwanted varnish in dino lubed engines and a lot of scratches in synthetics long drain intervals. The problem with long drain with syn, is particle count. So I had an idea a few years ago. Why not use the synthetic oil for 5k miles and as a cautious measure, drain it out and storage it in a hermetic closed container, with a strong neodimium (rare earth) magnet at the bottom for decantaion and iron collection. So, I fill the sump with fresh synthetic oil, new filter, run for 5k miles and drain again at the end of these 5k. Then I Go back to the previous used stored (still good) oil to run it again for 5k miles with a new filter. When it gets 10k, the additives are depleted, I send it to recycling. And this goes on and on.

That way, by almost 4 months decantation, I put all those particles above 5-6 ... microns to the bottom of the container and when I reuse, I have a pretty well gravity filtered oil, without the use of a bypass filter. The dispersant gives a temporary dispersion and giving time most of the particles, specially the harmfull bigger ones, will hit the bottom and settle down.

I have saved a lot of oil and managed the risks

Just an idea that could be of interest for somebody afraid of todays long drain interval and particle count ...



While the idea is commendable, I do not see any benefit from the effort. First, you need to define "particle count". Insolubles? Fe? Al? Many members here who do lifetime vehicle UOA tracking have found that extended drains show LESS wear metals over time. Is your claim the result of UOA testing?

You are seeing visible scratches when using synthetics for long drains? On camshafts? Cylinder walls? Bearings? If these particles are big enough to cause visible scratches in a cam lobe, you have other filtration issues to worry about.

What kind of container are you storing the oil in? Plastic? Metal? The chance of adding contamination (even that which you cannot see) to the oil during this transfer process is very high.

 

[gfh77665]

The idea is commendable, but with decantation, what about the additive fallout? That would end up getting tossed out along with the metal particals, and the remaing oil would be depleated because of this.

Too much effort/expense to make this practical for what you get out of it. Just limit miles, then reuse in a beater if you choose to do so.

 

[fdcg27]

When you can buy M1 for less than $25.00/jug, why would you bother?
When you can buy quality blends for $8.50/jug and you have engines that aren't at all picky about oil, then why even bother with M1?
Neither your Vulcan nor your little Subie will suffer from drains longer than 5K anyway and neither especially needs M1.
These are both very durable engines that really aren't picky about oil.
You want to save a little coin?
Put the Taurus and the Impreza on a diet of oil costing no more than $10.00/jug on sale and do 5K drains.

 

[Rosetta]

I use a clean and dry 5L glass container witha a tight cap, because in my experience,the glass get more harmfull particles (anything above 7-10 microns including metals, carbon/soot and silica) settled. I mean better then plastic bottles. I don't know why glass gets more of that carpet than plastic, maybe with the magnet glass blocks some kind of electric charges that could lead to an unwanted Brownian Effect. Or, in some way it gets to avoid better, such brownian effect that makes harder to settle the harmfull particles.

I think the brownian effect is what makes the process take so long. The oil dispersants (succinamides and other) rely on the Brownian Effect to function for long periods.

The paper filter media has some kind of ash, that I don't see as a good stuff. But, whata a heck the oil is already kindda dirty from use already, why bother for a very little contamination? rsrsrs