Serious discussion about 10W syn for winter

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I am on vacation in my newish G37 driving from florida to california. In texas in a rural gas station 200 miles from nowhere i note i am low 1 to 1.5 quarts of m1 5w20 ep. Gas station only has pp 5w20. So what do you do ? Do you wait for AAA to bring you m1 5w20 ep by helicopter? Do you pour in pp 5w20 and continue on? With pp 5w20 in there just as you reach cali your car break downs due to lube related failure.
Is m1 going to pay? Is penn going to pay? Is G37 going to pay ?

And i am not asking this to justify "blending" as i have already said earlier i wud never recommend blending to someone else in a newish car.
 
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Originally Posted By: T-Stick
Thank you -- that was very helpful.



You are quite welcome
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Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Garak please read the entire post.

I did read the entire post. I'm not talking about vehicles under warranty. My point is there are easier ways to get the winter numbers you want and to hold Noack at a reasonable level, and ensure shear stability. There are all kinds of A3/B4 lubricants that will do just fine, actually better, on most of those metrics, at the same price.
 
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I am on vacation in my newish G37 driving from florida to california. In texas in a rural gas station 200 miles from nowhere i note i am low 1 to 1.5 quarts of m1 5w20 ep. Gas station only has pp 5w20. So what do you do ? Do you wait for AAA to bring you m1 5w20 ep by helicopter? Do you pour in pp 5w20 and continue on? With pp 5w20 in there just as you reach cali your car break downs due to lube related failure.
Is m1 going to pay? Is penn going to pay? Is G37 going to pay ?

I don't use a 20 in my G37.
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If I had to add, I simply would. And down south, given that cold cranking is never ever going to be an issue, it's less of a concern. If that fill may face a -40 start, which my current full might, that's another matter.

On the other hand, when I have had burners in the past, I kept spare quarts in the trunk, to both minimize mixing and avoid paying gas station prices for oil. The point of this thread, though, was for a winter fill, and there are some options that are more useful than a 10w-30 synthetic for the same price.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Garak please read the entire post.

I did read the entire post. I'm not talking about vehicles under warranty. My point is there are easier ways to get the winter numbers you want and to hold Noack at a reasonable level, and ensure shear stability. There are all kinds of A3/B4 lubricants that will do just fine, actually better, on most of those metrics, at the same price.


For winter i suggested blending pp 5w20 and pp 10w30. I was considering noack and low viscosity modifiers for op.
There was no a3b4 consideration.

Then the discussion went against blending and i gave as an example why i like blending and am considering belnding say qsud 10w30 and pyb 20w50 for my ford which happens to see lots of highway miles mostly in summer. Both these oil have noack close to 5. I can blend for 2 dollars a quart or less given that qsud is essentially free after rebates. I wud love for you to name me some ready made oil with noack of 5 and 2 dollars a quart.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I am on vacation in my newish G37 driving from florida to california. In texas in a rural gas station 200 miles from nowhere i note i am low 1 to 1.5 quarts of m1 5w20 ep. Gas station only has pp 5w20. So what do you do ? Do you wait for AAA to bring you m1 5w20 ep by helicopter? Do you pour in pp 5w20 and continue on? With pp 5w20 in there just as you reach cali your car break downs due to lube related failure.
Is m1 going to pay? Is penn going to pay? Is G37 going to pay ?

I don't use a 20 in my G37.
wink.gif
If I had to add, I simply would. And down south, given that cold cranking is never ever going to be an issue, it's less of a concern. If that fill may face a -40 start, which my current full might, that's another matter.

On the other hand, when I have had burners in the past, I kept spare quarts in the trunk, to both minimize mixing and avoid paying gas station prices for oil. The point of this thread, though, was for a winter fill, and there are some options that are more useful than a 10w-30 synthetic for the same price.


You can still answer the question as posed considering it is a lube related failure. Whos going to pay ?
Just think if you were regular person cross contrying across canada in winter and ran into a similar situation regardless of the weight as long as oil in there was mobil and you had to add pennzoil. Assume regular joe or jane dont carry a stash of oil in their trunk.
 
You're not blending. You're mixing. And ending up with an unknown.

There are many fine finished oils. I pick one that meets my needs and stick with it. If I have to top off I have 4qt left in my 2nd 5qt jug to top off with for the entire oci.
 
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You're not blending. You're mixing. And ending up with an unknown.

There are many fine finished oils. I pick one that meets my needs and stick with it. If I have to top off I have 4qt left in my 2nd 5qt jug to top off with for the entire oci.

I am happy for you but afraid you are not providing a persuasive argument against careful and thoughtful mixing.
 
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I am on vacation in my newish G37 driving from florida to california. In texas in a rural gas station 200 miles from nowhere i note i am low 1 to 1.5 quarts of m1 5w20 ep. Gas station only has pp 5w20. So what do you do ? Do you wait for AAA to bring you m1 5w20 ep by helicopter? Do you pour in pp 5w20 and continue on? With pp 5w20 in there just as you reach cali your car break downs due to lube related failure.
Is m1 going to pay? Is penn going to pay? Is G37 going to pay ?


A strawman doesn't strengthen the argument...and besides, if you are on a long distance drive with a known oil burner, then you'd be foolish not to take some top-up oil with you.

do you need need to buy your jack, tyre irons and spare from them as well ?

ASTM D6922 is there exactly for the reasons that you quote...and here's what it offers...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3503439/The_oft_quoted_ASTM_D6922

Every oil on the shelves has to be able to be mixed with 7 reference oils. Cooled to a gel temperature (not specified, it's the temperature of the new combination), heated to 150C, cooled back down to the gell temperature, and heated to room temperature. It's not allowed to split like salad dressing, nor drop out a precipitate.

That's all that the miscibility standard offers...nothing about staying in grade, or meeting cold temperature viscometrics.

As to who's liable if your mix doesn't play well...nobody but the mixer.
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You're not blending. You're mixing. And ending up with an unknown.

There are many fine finished oils. I pick one that meets my needs and stick with it. If I have to top off I have 4qt left in my 2nd 5qt jug to top off with for the entire oci.

I am happy for you but afraid you are not providing a persuasive argument against careful and thoughtful mixing.


How is it careful and thoughtful if you have no idea what the end result is, just guesses /
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
I am on vacation in my newish G37 driving from florida to california. In texas in a rural gas station 200 miles from nowhere i note i am low 1 to 1.5 quarts of m1 5w20 ep. Gas station only has pp 5w20. So what do you do ? Do you wait for AAA to bring you m1 5w20 ep by helicopter? Do you pour in pp 5w20 and continue on? With pp 5w20 in there just as you reach cali your car break downs due to lube related failure.
Is m1 going to pay? Is penn going to pay? Is G37 going to pay ?


A strawman doesn't strengthen the argument...and besides, if you are on a long distance drive with a known oil burner, then you'd be foolish not to take some top-up oil with you.

do you need need to buy your jack, tyre irons and spare from them as well ?

ASTM D6922 is there exactly for the reasons that you quote...and here's what it offers...
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3503439/The_oft_quoted_ASTM_D6922

Every oil on the shelves has to be able to be mixed with 7 reference oils. Cooled to a gel temperature (not specified, it's the temperature of the new combination), heated to 150C, cooled back down to the gell temperature, and heated to room temperature. It's not allowed to split like salad dressing, nor drop out a precipitate.

That's all that the miscibility standard offers...nothing about staying in grade, or meeting cold temperature viscometrics.

As to who's liable if your mix doesn't play well...nobody but the mixer.
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
Originally Posted By: SilverFusion2010
You're not blending. You're mixing. And ending up with an unknown.

There are many fine finished oils. I pick one that meets my needs and stick with it. If I have to top off I have 4qt left in my 2nd 5qt jug to top off with for the entire oci.

I am happy for you but afraid you are not providing a persuasive argument against careful and thoughtful mixing.


How is it careful and thoughtful if you have no idea what the end result is, just guesses /

And a strawman that is....almost textbook
whistle.gif
 
strawman doesn't strengthen the argument...and besides, if you are on a long distance drive with a known oil burner, then you'd be foolish not to take some top-up oil with you.

Thats avoiding the question
smile.gif


Most people are not like bitogers.
Sometimes you find out its an oil burner for the first time !
 
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Originally Posted By: merconvvv

Thats avoiding the question
smile.gif



re-read my answer...all the way through...
 
i re read it. So you got oil geniuses testing oil compatibility with 7 reference oils and a light bulb does not go off somewhere to test for ccs and mrv before printing that you can add it to other synthetic and mineral oils. I dont even know what u mean by strawman. English is not my first language. Why dont you just state who will pay for lube related failure above?
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow

As to who's liable if your mix doesn't play well...nobody but the mixer.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Shannow

As to who's liable if your mix doesn't play well...nobody but the mixer.


U mean joe or jane who had to add oil going cross country in canada winter???
 
Originally Posted By: merconvvv
i re read it. So you got oil geniuses testing oil compatibility with 7 reference oils and a light bulb does not go off somewhere to test for ccs and mrv before printing that you can add it to other synthetic and mineral oils. I dont even know what u mean by strawman. English is not my first language. Why dont you just state who will pay for lube related failure above?

As was stated in the post Shannow referenced in his link, ASTM D6922 is NOT a performance standard, therefore it does not relate to CSS or MRV only that your engine will not be immediately and directly harmed by mixing the oils. So in answer to your big question no one will pay for a lube-related failure in your scenario because there will not be one. But that does not mean it won't affect the overall properties of the oil and also may cause some undesirable effects. If it is -20F out and I'm desperately low on oil, and I purchase one or two quarts of ND 30 oil so my engine won't seize will I experience a lubrication related failure on my way home? No of course not. But is that a good idea to use that oil in my engine in that climate? No it is not.

You remind me of a guy that used to post on here a while back who was going to build a Clem engine (look that up if you don't know what it is). He kept saying how he was going to engineer it correctly so that it would work. Everyone kept explaining to him that such an engine was impossible to exist, but he kept saying that one of the reasons it didn't was because the egg headed engineers were so full of book knowledge that they couldn't conceive of the Clem engine. Your comment about "oil geniuses" above is identical to his statements. Just like him you think that it is stupid the "geniuses" that devised ASTM D6922 didn't account for the imagined failure you point out. But the truth is that you, like that poster, can't comprehend the fundamentals of certain things so you denigrate and dismiss their purpose as either meaningless or deficient. You did this earlier for the usefulness of the winter rating system and you're doing it now for intermixing oils. Your comments about "engineering" cold-weather performance by your mixing display this deficiency in understanding.
 
ahh good to have you back kschacn.
Have you convinced the oil industry and academia that noack is not important
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So there wont be any lube related failures
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I did say that the winter rating system could be better and leaves much to be desired.
I also stated more info should be provided to the consumer
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