Semiconductor tariffs

[y_p_w]

My career was for the most part in SEMI. A critical document was the customer supplied spec, or Tool Description document. There was no form; the customer requirements were free form. One fab might include things that others did not.

It is also important to understand that the chips in a Honda, or whatever, require less capability than say an Apple cell phone chip. The TSMC foundry will not make car chips. Last I knew, Japan's Renesas was big in automotive chip making.

TSMC has automotive customers. Some of their processes are dedicated for automotive chips.

https://automotive.tsmc.com/english/dedicatedFoundry/technology/automotive.htm

I thought the big players were Maxim and NXP. They're mostly looking for mixed-signal, and they generally don't need or want to pay for the most advanced process nodes.

My career has often been about redesigning for a different process as older ones got phased out. Of course we might also add features or take advantage of better performance, but the heart of the design stayed the same. There was a lot of work just making sure everything was squared away migrating to a different process and fab.

 

[y_p_w]

The US is among the best countries by percentage of population who has a bachelor’s or higher. Russia and a few others are a bit higher.

But a bachelor’s in English literature doesn’t get you a job in tech.

Where we lag is in technical education.

Some of the people I worked in tech were humanities majors, but they were in the marketing or sales end. I have a minor in English lit myself. Makes for an interesting story when people see my resume, but the joke I tell was that I was looking to meet women.

 

[Vil_Riker]

When I was in tech, one of my degrees was marketing in addition to IS, and it was seen as a strength.

 

[Jetronic]

I think it was a very smart move. China showed its true colors and unwillingness to co-operate and it sent a clear message to other countries that if China can oppose US, the largest consumer market in the world, in such an aggressive manner, they will do it to anybody else. It also showed that China's aggression is only held back by US and they hopefully have realized that their very security lies with US, not China.
The "experts" thought the rest of the world would rally around China, when in fact the opposite is happening, and I'm glad to see it.

Not what I'm seeing at all.

The US showed it's true colours, and China sent a clear message that everyone can oppose the US and that US aggression needs to be held back. Nobody is safe under the US spgere of influence.

Several governments are openly calling for closer ties to China. Drawing the US ard is political suicide in most countries right now.

 

[Pablo]

Not what I'm seeing at all.

The US showed it's true colours, and China sent a clear message that everyone can oppose the US and that US aggression needs to be held back. Nobody is safe under the US spgere of influence.

Several governments are openly calling for closer ties to China. Drawing the US ard is political suicide in most countries right now.

USA needs to start now, something we should have shown China 35 years ago. Backbone. Don't be weak now. US Aggression? We are NOT the trade patsies.

Who exactly is rallying with China?

 

[Jetronic]

USA needs to start now, something we should have shown China 35 years ago. Backbone. Don't be weak now. US Aggression? We are NOT the trade patsies.

Who exactly is rallying with China?

Canada, EU... Japan and Korea aswell.

 

[factorytuned2012]

where and how do we begin this late in the game? if we could start producing our own chips and semiconductors who will buy ours? just an example, how much would an iPhone or PC produced in a union facility cost made with US components? a Chinese iPhone can cost $1000+

 

[Pablo]

Canada, EU... Japan and Korea aswell.

Links?

 

[Jetronic]

where and how do we begin this late in the game? if we could start producing our own chips and semiconductors who will buy ours? just an example, how much would an iPhone or PC produced in a union facility cost made with US components? a Chinese iPhone can cost $1000+

It'll cost nearly the same as the Chinese version + whatever tarriff is decided on. That's what happens if competion is removed. So $2500+ isn't unlikely.

 

[dubber09]

where and how do we begin this late in the game? if we could start producing our own chips and semiconductors who will buy ours? just an example, how much would an iPhone or PC produced in a union facility cost made with US components? a Chinese iPhone can cost $1000+

At least 2 times and likely 3 times as much, all after factories are built and workers are hired/trained.

 

[Jetronic]

Links?

canada-xhina oil deal
spain PM calls for closer ties with China
japan, lorea and china meet to discuss approach against US tarriffs.

google that, it should come up.

 

[JeffKeryk]

The US is among the best countries by percentage of population who has a bachelor’s or higher. Russia and a few others are a bit higher.

But a bachelor’s in English literature doesn’t get you a job in tech.

Where we lag is in technical education.

Sure. But IMO, the education issue in our country is more fundamental. Quality needs to be improved and start earlier.
"But I can't do math" is a failure of the system.

Make teaching a valued occupation. That's my 2 cents.

TSMC supports Community College tech.

One of the things that gets me is, my wife got a degree in Nutrition and was accepted to Stanford Medical School, but there was no money. So Sue became an Executive Assistant. Well, the exec's noticed her and let's just say she is waaaaay up there. She has gone far further (and is far better compensated) than me. Our CEO recognized her and told his direct staff, "I don't care what her degree is, she can operate at 2 levels, or more, above her current position right now."

 

[factorytuned2012]

Wild

 

[4WD]

Not what I'm seeing at all.

The US showed it's true colours, and China sent a clear message that everyone can oppose the US and that US aggression needs to be held back. Nobody is safe under the US spgere of influence.

Several governments are openly calling for closer ties to China. Drawing the US ard is political suicide in most countries right now.

Greetings from the EU …
Been working overseas all over the globe since 1991. I actually know allot about international business partners and geo—— aspects of various countries - Think you need to understand China better … They do not belong in the WTO …

 

[4WD]

canada-xhina oil deal
spain PM calls for closer ties with China
japan, lorea and china meet to discuss approach against US tarriffs.

google that, it should come up.

From drama sites - carry on

 

[Astro14]

Sure. But IMO, the education issue in our country is more fundamental. Quality needs to be improved and start earlier.
"But I can't do math" is a failure of the system.

Make teaching a valued occupation. That's my 2 cents.

TSMC supports Community College tech.

One of the things that gets me is, my wife got a degree in Nutrition and was accepted to Stanford Medical School, but there was no money. So Sue became an Executive Assistant. Well, the exec's noticed her and let's just say she is waaaaay up there. She has gone far further (and is far better compensated) than me. Our CEO recognized her and told his direct staff, "I don't care what her degree is, she can operate at 2 levels, or more, above her current position right now."

So…using Sue as a example…you don’t need a degree to be successful?

How then, did the education system in our country fail her?

 

[y_p_w]

First is true, not sure on second. I'm not sure what voltage limits TSMC has but I suspect they have multiple processes, which may include high voltage rulesets. High voltage and/or high current, that limits the ability to use small geometries. But not all auto IC's have to be 12V or 48V tolerant. I'm sure the memory chips in the ECU and/or radio are not.

I remember lessons on how performance would go up exponentially as geometry size went down if the base voltage was maintained. But the reality was that it unsustainable because it would create more heat in a smaller area. I seem to recall that the speeds could pretty much quadruple if the voltage was the same with half the channel width. But the base voltage would need to be dialed down to reduce heat. So in the end halving the geometry would maybe double the performance.

There were some interesting tricks that could be done with cryogenic cooling though. I recall seeing something allowing Intel chips to be heavily overclocked with an extremely expensive liquid cooling system that brought it way under freezing temps.

 

[The Critic]

So…using Sue as a example…you don’t need a degree to be successful?

How then, did the education system in our country fail her?

I think Sue is an example of a "corner case." There are Sue's out there, but they're the exception and not the norm.

Although I am of the opinion that a graduate pool consisting solely of STEM majors is not ideal, I do think we need to do a better job in this area if we want to remain globally competitive.

 

[Jetronic]

From drama sites - carry on

maybe. Is Reuters a drama site?

 

[Jetronic]

Greetings from the EU …
Been working overseas all over the globe since 1991. I actually know allot about international business partners and geo—— aspects of various countries - Think you need to understand China better … They do not belong in the WTO …

I'm not advocating for anything. But the US has permanently burned some bridges, and the longer this situation continues the closer the rest of the world will get to China. In fact, this has opened the door to lowering existing tariffs on chinese products.