Seized caliper pins... they're out there

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Polly_3SFE

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I installed new pads and rotors for both front and rear on my 2006 Toyota Avalon this past weekend. The car has around 66K and is relatively new to me. I bought the car off an elderly family member.

This was easily the hardest brake job I have ever completed. The rear brakes were definitely all original, so I had to fight tooth and nail to break everything loose. That wasn't the worst of it though.

The front is what surprised me the most, at 66K there was no way they were the original front pads but the slider pins were very seized up. One in particular was completely stuck in place. Usually a few taps with a chisel and hammer gets it out for me, but got nowhere with that. A 22" long 1/2" drive breaker bar would not move it. Had to use an air impact to get it to eventually rotate, and what finally persuaded it to come out was attaching an adjustable wrench to it and whacking it with a 4 lb sledge hammer over and over and over.

Here she is:
[Linked Image]


The pin itself does not have the rubber bushing on it, in its place is just caked on rusty grime. There was a bushing inside the bore that I had to fish out. So ultimately, my guess is the last person that did the front pads pulled the pin out and the bushing was stuck in the bore, and they likely replaced the pin with no bushing, with it unknowingly sitting beneath it. Whatever happened, that pin was not moving the slightest.

It makes me wonder how many out there have something going on with their brakes and don't realize it. Based on my cars prior brake performance, I would not have guessed this was going on. It seemed to stop fine, but it is way, way better now. Stops like a brand new car. I wish I had done this as soon as I bought it. The only other time I had a pin very seized is when I had used the purple Permatex stuff, which I found later to swell bushings and dry up rather quickly. It was nowhere near this stuck though.
 
Yup, I bet a big fat adjustable wrench was used to hold the pin from spinning when removing the caliper for pads. That pinched the boot. Making a hole. Water got in. Rotting the pin. Ruining the caliper bracket along with the pin. Need a new bracket, not just a pin. Remanufactured painted coated caliper with bracket, new pins, new bolts, boots is the way to go. They are throwaway cheap. Not worth rebuilding calipers anymore. I replaced one last month on the classic in my sig. It was dragging according to my cheap Amazon infared heat gun. Have one randomly getting stuck on the truck as well. Glad i bought that infared heat gun. I can see brake problems without tearing everything apart. I found 3 leaking windows in the house too lol
 
I've personally encountered some rusty and beat up pins, but that one looks like it was buried under ground for 20yrs. WOW.

Sad thing is, it probably was a shop that botched the last brake job and charged a bunch to do do.
 
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I just put some of that purple permatex on my brake pins and immediately after I keep reading all kinds of horror stories about it. I paid extra for it, thinking that it was the best. Guess I'll replace it soon, since it's only been on for a week and couldn't have possibly caused too much damage, especially as my pins don't have rubber bushings.
 
That's pretty bad! Were you able to clean up all the rust or did you buy a new pin?
 
Deontologist- I would recommend doing it sooner than later, but not as big of a worry if you don't have rubber components on the pins. It does still turn to gunk over time. Horrible stuff for slider pins. I use Sil-glyde now and have had no issues, but ideally silicone paste is preferred

LeakySeals- I did inspect the bores on the caliper bracket. They didn't look too bad and I cleaned them out as best as I could with a drill bit. I agree though, ideally those brackets should have been replaced. I replaced all pins, bolts and rubber boots/bushings.

Honestly, seeing and experiencing this it is probably a great benefit to inspect your slider pins with each tire rotation since you have the wheels off anyways.

I kid you not- smoke was pouring out of the bore when that pin finally came out.
 
Time for some new pins and 3 cans of brake cleaner and a tub of 100% silicone, I believe.
 
Originally Posted by Deontologist
I just put some of that purple permatex on my brake pins and immediately after I keep reading all kinds of horror stories about it. I paid extra for it, thinking that it was the best. Guess I'll replace it soon, since it's only been on for a week and couldn't have possibly caused too much damage, especially as my pins don't have rubber bushings.


Lots of topics on this here. I've seen techs both 'real life' and online use the purple goo on pins and swear they've never had an issue due to this like folks claim here. As an example, browse the (probably 100's) of brake jobs Eric O from South Main Auto has made videos on over the years. He butters everything but the pad slide areas with the purple stuff.

I've owned permatex synthetic/ceramic purple stuff for years. I personally have not used it on pins, but will try it at some point.
 
Originally Posted by Deontologist
I just put some of that purple permatex on my brake pins and immediately after I keep reading all kinds of horror stories about it. I paid extra for it, thinking that it was the best. Guess I'll replace it soon, since it's only been on for a week and couldn't have possibly caused too much damage, especially as my pins don't have rubber bushings.

Originally Posted by Polly_3SFE
Deontologist- I would recommend doing it sooner than later, but not as big of a worry if you don't have rubber components on the pins. It does still turn to gunk over time. Horrible stuff for slider pins. I use Sil-glyde now and have had no issues, but ideally silicone paste is preferred
Sil-Glyde does not swell the pins but it only like 5% silicone if you check the MSDS. I bit the bullet and bought a can of 3M silicone paste for $50(!) CAD and used it for the first time yesterday. For residents of the US, Mission silicone paste is what I would run. Mission silicone paste is half the price of 3M. When you consider the price of a tube of Sil-Glyde (I think I paid $17-20 CAD at NAPA here in Toronto) it is a horrible value in comparison. I can't get Mission in Canada, so I had to spring for the 3M. Buy once, cry once I guess.


https://www.amazon.com/Mission-Automotive-Dielectric-Silicone-Waterproof/dp/B016E5E59G
 
I use Sil-Glyde also. Never had an issue. I also live in a warm climate, so no salt, etc. on roads. Maybe that makes a difference. Just did my neighbors Nissan Frontier front brakes. Sil-Glyde on all sliding parts. I do find it odd that Eric O (South Main Auto) does not lubricate the "ears" of the pads. I have always lubricated the ears.
 
I use Sil-Glyde on my home brake jobs and have never had an issue. Never bothered with Permatex since they have like 5 different brake lubes which I can't differentiate.
 
The purple stuff swelled the rubber bushing on the caliper pin for me. It was visibly swollen, and it dried up to the point that the pins did not move easily. I don't mean to start a debate about that product. Was just referencing the last time I saw such seized up pins.
 
Originally Posted by Urshurak776
I use Sil-Glyde also. Never had an issue. I also live in a warm climate, so no salt, etc. on roads. Maybe that makes a difference. Just did my neighbors Nissan Frontier front brakes. Sil-Glyde on all sliding parts. I do find it odd that Eric O (South Main Auto) does not lubricate the "ears" of the pads. I have always lubricated the ears.


This exactly for me too.
 
I remove each caliper and check the components every two years and lube the pins with Sil-Glyde. It holds up very well over two years. The green Permatex was the firs brake grease product I used in 2006 and the lower pins were very hard to remove in two years because the green goop had swelled the bushings. I wouldn't use any Permatex brake grease although some on this forum indicate the newest Permatex product has worked for them. I believe I will use 3M silicone brake grease this fall. Maintaining the integrity of the pin boots will prevent pin corrosion. If my caliper components looked like the pictures above I would replace them. The pin bores can't be in any better shape than the pins. Chuck em in the scrap and maintain the replacements.
 
Originally Posted by Urshurak776
.. I do find it odd that Eric O (South Main Auto) does not lubricate the "ears" of the pads. I have always lubricated the ears.


It is different, but living only an hour or two away from him, I can see his point. All the grit and grime dumped on the roads during our 6-7 months of winter just gets held into the pad ear area if you add some type of lube there.

I'm with you guys though. For 30yrs I've always added something to the pad ears and for all my BITOG time atleast, I've been using sil-glyde. I can't say I've had flawless results with sil-glyde. It tends to turn to a dry pasty goo in (properly sealed) caliper pins for me and doesn't seem to help protect the rubber parts like you'd think it should. To me it's because as mentioned above. Sil-Glyde isn't 100% pure silicone grease.
 
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Originally Posted by Urshurak776
.. I do find it odd that Eric O (South Main Auto) does not lubricate the "ears" of the pads. I have always lubricated the ears.
I was watching him do a brake job and he lubricated the area under the brake hardware but left the pad ears dry, I was shocked.
 
Originally Posted by maxdustington
Sil-Glyde does not swell the pins but it only like 5% silicone...
Originally Posted by JTK
To me it's because as mentioned above. Sil-Glyde isn't 100% pure silicone grease.


From a standpoint of brake parts applications, do you know that that's a bad thing (5%) ? What is a proper amount ? More isn't always better.
 
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