Scotty says two new tires go to the...

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8,065
Location
Champlain/Hudson Valley
It does keep coming. One bloke urged me to never rotate tires. I always have and always got great life from my tires and they always wore flat across. Tire rotation eases tire & brake inspection as well.
 
Messages
1,631
Location
Danville, Indiana
As others have said, Scotty may be very wrong on this one in most geographic areas. Michellin once had videos explaining why you do not want the rear tires to hydroplane first. Remeber, wet traction is the single most important consideration, as other than dry roads, where it won't matter so much, most people will encounter wet roads more frequently. If I were him, on a safety issue like this, I'd keep my mouth shut and let tire dealers handle it in the area in which they reside. This is the kind of internet advice that can get someone hurt, or worse. As for me, there won't ever be enough difference between the fronts and rears for this to matter. It will only matter if I ruin a tire while the others are worn but still have some life left. I rotate every 4k to 6k, so wear is pretty even.
 
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3,843
Location
Somewhere in the US
More fuel for the fire: A tire will recover from a loss of grip BEFORE the vehicle comes to a stop. If the vehicle has spun, it can't be steered. But if it is pointed in the right direction when it recovers grip, it can be steered - hence the recommendation to have the better tires on the rear to prevent the vehicle from spinning. Rotation? If the vehicle needed only 2 tires, then tire rotation didn't take place as it should have been. Rotating tires AFTER replacing only 2 tires is like closing the barndoor after the horse got out. Best recommendation for that situation is to wear the front tires out (that is: don't rotate), and when you do replace those worn out tires, all the tires will be closer to the same tread depth than the other way. And if a car's tires are rotated as they should be, the difference in tread depth front to rear won't be enough to matter. It's the HUGE differences in tread depth that the recommendation is aimed at. Please note: The recommendation for applying new tires to the rear is aimed mostly at FWD vehicles since those are the ones who wear out tires at remarkably different rates front to rear. But the recommendation is applicable to any vehicle regardless of configuration - which is why it isn't mentioned.
 
Originally Posted by Dave9
Everyone wants to stick to specific scenarios and act as though that's the only handling/stopping/etc scenario that matters. Sometimes it is better to spin out, than lose the ability to steer from less tread on the front tires, and go out of your lane straight, at full speed head-on into the other lane, or a tree or barrier, or the road curves but you don't. The key factor here is no matter where, which of your tires are, you should always be driving within the capabilities of your vehicle, in the state it's in, and the environment it's in. Anyone can say some certain thing is more safe. We don't all wear helmets or have roll cages either, yet these are also more safe. It's also less safe to not rotate your tires so you have uneven wear, so whether they start on the front or rear, they're going to be rotated to the other axle roughly 50% of the time anyway. Hmmmmmmmmmm.
approved
 
Messages
14,315
Location
Central NY
Originally Posted by hemitom
If your talking snow tires and winter driving scotty is wrong.
Yes and no. A front wheel drive car with new tires on the back and baldies on the front won't move in the snow, but it's also not going to do a 180 or 360 on low traction surfaces. Front wheel drive cars with good tires on the front and bald tires on the back like to turn around in the snow.
 
Messages
14,431
Location
The Old North State
I enjoy diakinetic Scotty, mostly for entertainment value. However here given the choice, I'll go with the advice of real "tire experts", not ole Scotty wannabee tire expert. I would say imo the tires in vid looks like a rotation still possible/doable on the Rav at most places and probably a good idea. To save yourself some of Scotty's bloviation, his tire "expertise" advice starts about the 4 minute mark.
 
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
According to the most experienced industry expert (the only one that counts) https://www.tirebusiness.com/articl...-new-tires-on-rear-axiom-tire-age-debate
Interesting. Isn't this quote what this whole debate is about:
Quote
He also showed videos of his own vehicle testing, using tires of different makes, models and tread depths. "The results showed that the lowest tread depth, regardless of position, dictated where vehicle control was lost..."..
And the point the rest of the industry tries to make is the average (low skill) driver is better able to deal with understeer than oversteer? And if he's the only expert that counts, what about this quote?
Quote
Tire age also can't be left out of the equation, according to Mr. Baldwin. Based largely on the results of his testing, Ford recommends that vehicle owners replace their tires after six years regardless of the tires' remaining treadwear.
If we believe the expert about one thing we've got to believe him about another right?
 
Messages
4,920
Location
VA
Originally Posted by walterjay
This is one time that I am with Scotty. When I buy new tires, the new go on the front.
I'm with you. Only slight modification is (I never buy just 2 tires except for lawnmower, bicycle and trailer) but If I ever did, the new tires would go on the drive wheels.
 
Messages
1,176
Location
Wisconsin
Originally Posted by AZjeff
Originally Posted by Rmay635703
According to the most experienced industry expert (the only one that counts) https://www.tirebusiness.com/articl...-new-tires-on-rear-axiom-tire-age-debate
Interesting. Isn't this quote what this whole debate is about:
Quote
He also showed videos of his own vehicle testing, using tires of different makes, models and tread depths. "The results showed that the lowest tread depth, regardless of position, dictated where vehicle control was lost..."..
And the point the rest of the industry tries to make is the average (low skill) driver is better able to deal with understeer than oversteer? And if he's the only expert that counts, what about this quote?
Quote
Tire age also can't be left out of the equation, according to Mr. Baldwin. Based largely on the results of his testing, Ford recommends that vehicle owners replace their tires after six years regardless of the tires' remaining treadwear.
If we believe the expert about one thing we've got to believe him about another right?
We also have to believe his imperacle data that few cars actually follow the recommendations yet tire irregularities don't add significantly to the accident rate. AKA It matters less than most say it does or every car on the road would crash Further, tires bought "new" can be up to 5 years old and have less grip than your worn tires and shaved tires have significantly less grip than worn tires making the practice more dangerous than irregular tread depth.
 
Messages
920
Location
D/FW Metroplex
I have found that for my particular car, when driven in the environment in which I live, and taking into consideration how I drive, the best positions in which to mount two new tires (assuming all 4 current ones have little to no tread left on them) is LF and RR. A long time ago I was in the "new tires go on front" camp, then I slowly transitioned to the "new tires go on rear camp", but after lots of experience with both (and neither), my best odds lie in "new tires go on left front and right rear"
 
Messages
6,322
Location
New England
He lives in Houston Texas not where ice/snow are prevalent. The traction difference is significantly amplified when you are on winter pavements with ice/snow and your front stops harder then back with limited traction and swings around losing control. His experience is limited to rain and dry pavement. The worst example I did as niave 19year old was mounting two snow tires on front and leaving performance tires on rear on a GTI. In winter conditions car would sway back and forth at speed, occasionally spin out and during braking I would counter steer the rear end coming about. Dry/wet I did not notice a massive difference.
 
Originally Posted by The_Nuke
I have found that for my particular car, when driven in the environment in which I live, and taking into consideration how I drive, the best positions in which to mount two new tires (assuming all 4 current ones have little to no tread left on them) is LF and RR. A long time ago I was in the "new tires go on front" camp, then I slowly transitioned to the "new tires go on rear camp", but after lots of experience with both (and neither), my best odds lie in "new tires go on left front and right rear"
Weird. Makes a lot of sense and makes no sense at all. All at the same time.
 
Messages
920
Location
D/FW Metroplex
Originally Posted by OilStasher
Originally Posted by The_Nuke
I have found that for my particular car, when driven in the environment in which I live, and taking into consideration how I drive, the best positions in which to mount two new tires (assuming all 4 current ones have little to no tread left on them) is LF and RR. A long time ago I was in the "new tires go on front" camp, then I slowly transitioned to the "new tires go on rear camp", but after lots of experience with both (and neither), my best odds lie in "new tires go on left front and right rear"
Weird. Makes a lot of sense and makes no sense at all. All at the same time.
The Bacon Hauler is RWD with an open differential, so RR wheel is main drive wheel. It can make the beat use of tread, in an emergency, out of the two rear wheels. And right front tire is more likely to encounter puddles of water on a wet road around here and thus lose traction, tread or no tread. As such, the left front wheel can make better use of tread, in an emergency, out of both front wheel. YMMV of course.
 
Messages
1,462
Location
iowa
The same loss of control effect could happen under dry conditions if you put new tires on the rear, with worn ones in the front. For maximum dry traction, no tread is the best. So what then?
 
Messages
920
Location
D/FW Metroplex
Originally Posted by Traction
The same loss of control effect could happen under dry conditions if you put new tires on the rear, with worn ones in the front. For maximum dry traction, no tread is the best. So what then?
Life's a gamble. You buy your ticket and take your chances. Sometimes you're the windshield, sometimes you fly thru it. Also, huh?
 
Messages
169
Location
ChicagoLand USA
I can report that on my 2007 F150 S'Crew 4X4, the local garage rotated the better ones on the front and the handling was scary in icy sleet/rain, went to Firestone (as the tires from previous owner are Firestones) and was told the best should be on the back and rotated back for free...the handling in the same weather was much more confidence inspiring... I've heard and read where the experts say one or the other but I know which way I pick for best driving... YMMV Bill
 
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