Schaeffer 10w30, 4800 miles, 95 Firebird Formula

[Patman]

Here are the latest oil analysis results on my car, done by Wearcheck Canada, with interpretation to follow from Terry Dyson.

This is my fourth interval with Schaeffer Supreme.

Here is the data:

1995 Firebird Formula
350ci LT1 engine, 275hp, automatic trans, 3.23 axle ratio
10w30 Schaeffer Supreme 7000 blend (SL formulation)
4800 miles on oil/87,000 miles on engine
3oz Auto-rx maintenance dose
Neutra added regularly to fuel at a rate of one oz per 4-5 gallons
Carquest Premium oil filter (oversize 85060)
Fresh Fram air filter (put in at about the 800 mile point of this run)
Oil was run from April 11 to June 24 (10.5 weeks)
(Average of 457 miles per week)
Top up oil was 400ml (13oz)
Oil capacity is 5.25 qts
This is my daily driver, almost all highway driving, but with lots of rush
hour traffic, and lots of full throttle, including 14 quarter mile runs

code:

---

Iron 21

Lead 11

Aluminum 5.8

Copper 3.5

Silicon 16

Nickel 0.0

Chromium 1.0

Titanium 0.3

Tin 0.4

Silver 0.2

Vanadium 0.1

Potassium 0.7

Sodium 13

Boron 3.3

Barium 0.3

Manganese 202

Calcium 1854

Magnesium 16

Moly 97

Phosphorus 809

Zinc 987

Fuel 0%

Glycol 0%

Water 0%

Sulfation 58%

Oxidation 46%

Nitration 30%

VI 140

Vis @ 40c 66.8

Vis @ 100c 10.3

TBN 3.24 (D-4739)

---

I changed the oil after sampling, and switched it over to 5w30 Schaeffer
Supreme blend this time, with an oversize K&N
oil filter (HP3002)

Early on in this interval I had the fuel filter changed and one bad spark
plug too (it was still original with 84k on it, but the other 7 were changed
around 60k)

Immediately prior to this interval, I ran a 1300 mile interval with 12oz of
Auto-rx. It fixed an oil leak that I had, which caused my engine to consume
about 1qt of
oil every 6k. As you can see, the consumption has been cut in half.

I'm disappointed with these results, but there could be many reasons for the poor numbers. The new air filter could be letting in too much dirt, the little bit of colder weather at the beginning of the run might've hurt. Or it could've even been a bad sample, since I had a problem with the first sample bottle starting to melt on me with the hot oil, so I had to transfer the oil into a new bottle. I also ended up sending a smaller sample as a result.

So the next UOA I get will be a better showing I'm sure. The Carquest (Wix clone) oil filter also might not have been doing as good of a job too, hopefully the K&N will do better.

[ October 10, 2003, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Patman ]

 

[G-MAN]

My first impression is that this engine doesn't "like" this oil, i.e., this is not a good oil/engine combination.

And what's up with that sulfur reading?

 

[Patman]

Ignore the sulfur reading, all of the Wearcheck reports show this, I shouldn't even include it since it's somewhat misleading.

I have seen better lead numbers with this oil in the past, even in the cold winter, so something is amiss here.

I think it could've been my sampling. I just remembered that after I transferred the oil to the new bottle, I went outside to see if I could catch some more oil (since I didn't feel I had enough) The oil had been draining for about 5min by this point in time, and was just coming out slowly at this point. I caught about maybe 25-50ml more oil, and then gave up since it was coming out too slow. Perhaps this little bit at the end had tons of wear metals in it.

Another thing that could be a problem was that on one occasion at the dragstrip, I let the car cool down for a very long time in between rounds. I actually did this twice on that day, so I was going full throttle from 0-100mph on oil that was pretty cold (it was in the mid 50s that day, and I cooled the car down about 90min to 120min each time)

I also wonder if when the GM dealer changed my one spark plug, that perhaps they got some dirt into the cylinder, which in turn could cause the higher silicon. Even with a new Fram air filter I expected better than this. I've seen silicon levels much lower in the past with this car, but with a clogged up OEM air filter.

My next UOA should be much better, I'm planning on sampling it at 5k, but then continuing to run the same batch until late November (up to maybe 8k total) On the 5k sample I'm really hoping to see under 10ppm for iron and under 5ppm for lead. I think this engine is capable of it, I had a 3300 mile interval last summer with Maxlife which showed only 5ppm of iron, and my first interval with Schaeffer Oil last fall showed only 7ppm of iron in 4300 miles (and it was the first run on a moly oil, so the moly wasn't fully plated up for that entire run)

 

[Ryan00TJ]

I would be happy with this report as you first must put everything into perspective....

Your dealing with a large American V8 of 5.7L CI not a 1.6L Honda motor. Your engine has 4 more cylinders making wear and a whole lot more cubic inches. Your iron wear looks quite good when borken down 21ppm in 4800 miles = 4.3ppm per 1k miles.

Lead is the same. Also Schaeffer's stayed in grade as a perfect 30 weight and had a good bit of TBN left.

 

[Matt89]

quote:

---

Early on in this interval I had the fuel filter changed and one bad spark
plug too (it was still original with 84k on it, but the other 7 were changed
around 60k)

---

Patman;
Just curious...how did you get one spark plug "off sequence" with the rest of them?
Matt

 

[Bio-T]

I think if you will post all 4 of your oil analysis on this vehicle on a spread sheet here you will see the trend is very positive on this analysis.
With Valvoline Max Life and 2394 miles you had Iron 15 and Lead 19. Now with Schaeffer's and 4800 miles on the oil you had Iron 21 and 11 Lead. These 2 wear metals that you are concerned about are way down in ppm per 1000 miles.
You copper is extremely low. We are seeing 100-200 ppm copper in this same engine and calling it normal for this engine.
At worst, this is an excellent report for this engine. Look at your trends.

 

[Bror Jace]

Patman, it could be a combination of things. When sampling, I think it was the instructions which came with my Titan kit which specifically warned NOT to get the first bit of oil nor the last from a drain. The last few ounces seem to come out with a thin ribbon of glitter in the center of the trickle.

At least I can see that best when draining oil out of power equipment which has been neglected. The location of the plug usually allows me a pretty good view (including good lighting) of the drain.

Also, have you run Auto-RX in this engine before? It may be dredging up old stuff if this is the first time.

As for the brand new air filter, don’t they let in some of the smaller particles? Don’t air filters work best (filter out most of the smaller bits) somewhere in the middle of their life cycles?

--- Bror Jace

 

[Ryan00TJ]

59 Vetteman, It's the LS1 Chevy engine that has the high amounts of copper in UOAs. Patman's LT1 to ny knowledge has never had high amounts of copper as a norm. I agree as this is a great report.

 

[MolaKule]

Patman,

If it's any consolation, both of my 350's show about the same wear metals, whether it be Schaeffer, Amsoil ATM, or Mobil 1.

 

[novadude]

quote:

---

Patman;
Just curious...how did you get one spark plug "off sequence" with the rest of them?
Matt

---

LOL... try doing a plug change on an LT1 F-body, and you will understand!

 

[YZF150]

Is this Shaeffer's high-end oil?

 

[Al]

I agree with 59 Vetteman . And considering your sampling boondoggle-you should be pleased with the results. Obviously check your filter out and the intake duct from the filter to the manifold. Why are you going withe the 5w30 vs 10w30 especially for summer.

 

[Pablo]

The TBN sure dipped for so many highway miles. 4800 miles in 10 weeks is highway driving unless you live in your car

Was there some idleing time in there,too? (In traffic!) Some possibility that all H2O is not cleared?

I think the wear metals are pretty good for a V8.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Matt89:

quote:

---

Early on in this interval I had the fuel filter changed and one bad spark
plug too (it was still original with 84k on it, but the other 7 were changed
around 60k)

---

Patman;
Just curious...how did you get one spark plug "off sequence" with the rest of them?
Matt

---

The LT1 spark plug and wire change is super tricky, it's an 8 hour job! A friend of mine did the job for me when the car had 60k on it, but one of the plugs was in there so tight that he just could not get it out. He attempted it again on another occasion, but gave up and suggested I take it to the dealer. I kept putting it off and finally got it done a few months ago when the car started running like crap, it was down on power above 5000rpm.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by 59 Vetteman:
I think if you will post all 4 of your oil analysis on this vehicle on a spread sheet here you will see the trend is very positive on this analysis.
With Valvoline Max Life and 2394 miles you had Iron 15 and Lead 19. Now with Schaeffer's and 4800 miles on the oil you had Iron 21 and 11 Lead. These 2 wear metals that you are concerned about are way down in ppm per 1000 miles.
You copper is extremely low. We are seeing 100-200 ppm copper in this same engine and calling it normal for this engine.
At worst, this is an excellent report for this engine. Look at your trends.

---

This is an LT1 engine though, not the high copper producing LS1. This engine is not known for high copper.

I'm not blaming the oil for this report not being up to my high standards, the combination of all the things that I did is responsible for it.

I still truly believe this next report will be much much better, with wear numbers under 2ppm per 1000 miles.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bror Jace:
Patman, it could be a combination of things. When sampling, I think it was the instructions which came with my Titan kit which specifically warned NOT to get the first bit of oil nor the last from a drain. The last few ounces seem to come out with a thin ribbon of glitter in the center of the trickle.

At least I can see that best when draining oil out of power equipment which has been neglected. The location of the plug usually allows me a pretty good view (including good lighting) of the drain.

Also, have you run Auto-RX in this engine before? It may be dredging up old stuff if this is the first time.

As for the brand new air filter, don’t they let in some of the smaller particles? Don’t air filters work best (filter out most of the smaller bits) somewhere in the middle of their life cycles?

--- Bror Jace

---

You're probably right, plus I had all my intake tubing off for about 10min to change the filter, and it was windy out. So I'm sure some dirt got into the engine this way.

I have run Auto-rx in this engine twice, the second treatment was done just prior to this interval.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Al:
I agree with 59 Vetteman . And considering your sampling boondoggle-you should be pleased with the results. Obviously check your filter out and the intake duct from the filter to the manifold. Why are you going withe the 5w30 vs 10w30 especially for summer.

---

I decided to switch to 5w30 for all year round use. I don't want to go through another cold winter with 10w30, and would prefer to just keep one viscosity on hand. Besides, even in the hot summer, I believe the 5w30 will do better since it's still thinner on the cold start. And Schaeffer 5w30 uses a group 3 and PAO base, while their 10w30 uses a group 2+ and PAO base. So I'm getting better value for my money since the 10w30 and 5w30 are the same price.

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pablo:
The TBN sure dipped for so many highway miles. 4800 miles in 10 weeks is highway driving unless you live in your car

Was there some idleing time in there,too? (In traffic!) Some possibility that all H2O is not cleared?

I think the wear metals are pretty good for a V8.

---

There would've been some idling in traffic for sure, as I do get stuck in a lot of rush hour nonsense!

I did a ton of highway driving this interval, with all the trips to the dragstrip plus a lot of times I went out for a nice long drive on my lunch hours too.

 

[Ken2]

Pat,

I don't think Schaeffer uses any Group III base oils. Their 5w30 uses Group II+ and PAO:
"Supreme 7000 SAE 5w30 is blended from the finest quality solvent refined, severely raffinate hydroconverted Group II Plus 100% paraffin base oils and polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids...."


Ken

 

[Patman]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ken2:
Pat,

I don't think Schaeffer uses any Group III base oils. Their 5w30 uses Group II+ and PAO:
"Supreme 7000 SAE 5w30 is blended from the finest quality solvent refined, severely raffinate hydroconverted Group II Plus 100% paraffin base oils and polyalphaolefin (PAO) synthetic base fluids...."


Ken

---

Ken, the head chemist at Schaeffer Oil told Bob that the 5w30 blend is indeed a mix of group 3 and PAO. Their website needs updating to reflect this change.